Blown Turbo ????
Discussion
matt_fp said:
All in my humble opinion/experience
1. 30 seconds
2. 60 seconds
3. When the front bank turbo turbine housing stops glowing + 60 seconds
4. As Above
Even when driving on the road its a good idea to do a "cool down" lap i.e. keep it off boost for the last half mile of your journey. Matt
I usually keep off the boost for the last mile or 2 or say 3-6 minutes of a jeourney, then park in the garage and switch off.
Is this the same as idling or not. (the neighbours complain if I leave it running on the drive for ages!)
Greg
Mr Noble said:
All in my humble opinion/experience
1. 30 seconds
2. 60 seconds
3. When the front bank turbo turbine housing stops glowing + 60 seconds
4. As Above
Even when driving on the road its a good idea to do a "cool down" lap i.e. keep it off boost for the last half mile of your journey. Matt
I usually keep off the boost for the last mile or 2 or say 3-6 minutes of a jeourney, then park in the garage and switch off.
Is this the same as idling or not. (the neighbours complain if I leave it running on the drive for ages!)
Greg
Nothing wrong with that at all Greg - its all about ensuring the turbo's are reasonably cool and the oil temperature is heading down not up before switching off. A gentle run for the last two miles of a journey will be just as good as letting it idle for 60 seconds or so.
Best Regards
Matt
matt_fp said:
Matt - how long is sufficient? Just so it's not 'as a piece of string' a few scenarios below to consider. Thx.
1. Normal street-legal run round the roads
2. Thrash round the roads
3. 15 mins on track + cool down lap
4. 25 mins on track + cool down lap
All in my humble opinion/experience
1. 30 seconds
2. 60 seconds
3. When the front bank turbo turbine housing stops glowing + 60 seconds
4. As Above
Even when driving on the road its a good idea to do a "cool down" lap i.e. keep it off boost for the last half mile of your journey.
Also to ensure happy long lived turbo's we recommend an oil change every 4K miles for road cars and 3K miles for tracked road cars.
Hope this helps.
Best Regards
Matt
Not totally on topic, Matt--but I was wondering if you or others in the UK have tried and/or use turbo blankets. Although insulating the turbos in this way could help the IC and fuel tank heat soak problems, I think the insulation would also tend to reduce turbo life because the turbo materials/seals/oil will remain very hot for long periods. (Normal cool-down rates will be extended because heat losses due to convection and radiation are inhibited by the insulation.)
JLSELAN said:
Not totally on topic, Matt--but I was wondering if you or others in the UK have tried and/or use turbo blankets. Although insulating the turbos in this way could help the IC and fuel tank heat soak problems, I think the insulation would also tend to reduce turbo life because the turbo materials/seals/oil will remain very hot for long periods. (Normal cool-down rates will be extended because heat losses due to convection and radiation are inhibited by the insulation.)
We looked into using/selling Turbo Blankets but after initial testing discounted the option due to (as you correctly say) retained heat in the turbine housings and an inabiliting to disipate it.
The best option we have found (we are prototyping at the moment) is a metal shield with a good sized air gap between it and the turbine housing. Cool down time is slightly extended but no where near the levels found when the turbo is 'blanketed' and radiated heat is cut down significantly.
However the best solutions is simply to improve airflow across the turbo's, we're working on that currently and would recommend its done along with the type of shielding described above fitted to the front turbo turbine housing.
Best Regards
Matt
So after 10 (yes 10!) weeks in the garage, I now have my Noble back !
New LSD, Gearbox, Turbo's, clutch and a few other bits !!!
I can finally now enjoy the Foulks EBC and Re-map.....oh sh*t....its winter
Can't remember who described the build quality being like chocolate......finding it hard to disagree at the moment.
Still good to get it back.
New LSD, Gearbox, Turbo's, clutch and a few other bits !!!
I can finally now enjoy the Foulks EBC and Re-map.....oh sh*t....its winter
Can't remember who described the build quality being like chocolate......finding it hard to disagree at the moment.
Still good to get it back.
Siban said:
So after 10 (yes 10!) weeks in the garage, I now have my Noble back !
New LSD, Gearbox, Turbo's, clutch and a few other bits !!!
I can finally now enjoy the Foulks EBC and Re-map.....oh sh*t....its winter
Can't remember who described the build quality being like chocolate......finding it hard to disagree at the moment.
Still good to get it back.
Welcome back matey. I used the word "chocolate" when describring the less than top quality standard fit manifolds. if that's what you are referring too.
Matt_fp - improving the air flow - did you manage to get something sorted?
Mr Noble said:
Can someone tell me what the EBC does and how it works please.
Matt
EBC is Electronic Boost Control, involves a solenoid controlled by the ECU to alter the amount of pressure fed to the wastegate actuator/s. In simple terms it allows a boost curve (and therefore to a point a torque curve) to be mapped allowing for smoother more controllable boost delivery. All 3 litre cars have EBC as standard but 2.5's did not and were supplied with purely mechanical boost control.
Improvements to front turbo air supply require either a NACA duct cutting into the ally undertray or the side pods opening up to provide a larger air feed. Paul C came up with an excellent solution of feeding cold air into the central tunnel which also improves flow over the front turbo. The neastest solution would be a fan assisted air supply to the front bank turbo, we are looking at this currently.
Worty - chances are when the shroud disintergrated it has 'clipped' the turbine blades in the turbo and/or damaged the bearing. The turbo will continue to operate but the balance of the turbine wheel will more than likely have been affected leading to rapid bearing wear and turbo failiure. If it were mine I would have the turbo rebuilt as a matter of course. The compressor/turbine wheels rotate at 90,000 RPM plus as such they are very easily FOD'ed.
Best Regards
Matt
>> Edited by Matt_FP on Thursday 24th November 10:24
Matt_FP said:
Worty - chances are when the shroud disintergrated it has 'clipped' the turbine blades in the turbo and/or damaged the bearing. The turbo will continue to operate but the balance of the turbine wheel will more than likely have been affected leading to rapid bearing wear and turbo failiure. If it were mine I would have the turbo rebuilt as a matter of course. The compressor/turbine wheels rotate at 90,000 RPM plus as such they are very easily FOD'ed.
Best Regards
Matt
>> Edited by Matt_FP on Thursday 24th November 10:24
Thats not what I wanted to hear
Any idea what it costs to have done and does it really take as long as 10 weeks like Siban's
Thanks
Paul
Paul,
Circa £380 for a T25 rebuild + removal/refitting. As its the rear turbo its easy to get at and if your handy with the spanners easily do-able yourself. Refitting will require new turbine housing gasket/s and new copper washers (TT can supply these). Upon refitting it is best practice to 'prime' the turbo with oil and spin the car over on the starter without letting it fire to get some oil flow through the turbo before first startup.
Turbo Technics are the best people for the rebuild and are available on 01604 705050.
I must stress the turbo could carry on working properly for a long time if any damage to the turbine wheel is light but there is very little chance that shrapnel from the Lambda sensor shroud has managed to pass through a component which rotates at 90K RPM+ without causing some damage.
Some interesting facts from TT on turbo chargers here: www.turbotechnics.com/docs/turbo/turbofacts.htm
Best Regards
Matt
Circa £380 for a T25 rebuild + removal/refitting. As its the rear turbo its easy to get at and if your handy with the spanners easily do-able yourself. Refitting will require new turbine housing gasket/s and new copper washers (TT can supply these). Upon refitting it is best practice to 'prime' the turbo with oil and spin the car over on the starter without letting it fire to get some oil flow through the turbo before first startup.
Turbo Technics are the best people for the rebuild and are available on 01604 705050.
I must stress the turbo could carry on working properly for a long time if any damage to the turbine wheel is light but there is very little chance that shrapnel from the Lambda sensor shroud has managed to pass through a component which rotates at 90K RPM+ without causing some damage.
Some interesting facts from TT on turbo chargers here: www.turbotechnics.com/docs/turbo/turbofacts.htm
Best Regards
Matt
worty said:
Thats not what I wanted to hear
Any idea what it costs to have done and does it really take as long as 10 weeks like Siban's
At the owners day the chap from Vegantune mentioned a figure of 400 quid for a turbo rebuild (not that I'm in need of a turbo rebuild you understand). Probably that'll be a "starts from" and "exclusive of VAT" price.
--
Richard
Front one is a bit more of a pain due to much less room to work and requires removal of the undertray. In short around tripple the time to do a front one rather than the rear one - more if a downpipe bolt or similar is stubborn.
To have a common type journal bearing turbo rebuilt by a reputable source (I always recommed Turbo Technics as they have rebuilt a lot of units for us with no issues and are the chaps who developed and manufacture the VSR machine used by most other companies to balance the CHRA) should be around £400 Inc. no more.
Best Regards
Matt
>> Edited by Matt_FP on Thursday 24th November 13:58
To have a common type journal bearing turbo rebuilt by a reputable source (I always recommed Turbo Technics as they have rebuilt a lot of units for us with no issues and are the chaps who developed and manufacture the VSR machine used by most other companies to balance the CHRA) should be around £400 Inc. no more.
Best Regards
Matt
>> Edited by Matt_FP on Thursday 24th November 13:58
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