BMW warranty policies and track day
Discussion
I said I'd let you guys know of the outcome of my dispute with BMW.
(posted here and on the BMW bit of this forum)
In today's (12/11/02) Autocar there is a letter from me regarding this (I was asked to write it by Autocar to see if there are other BMW drivers out there who have had the same problems.)
In case you missed the previous thread: I took my M3E46 on a few non-competitive track days (and as I was getting through a set of brake pads every day - BMW became aware of the fact that I was doing said track days). But when a pin locating the flywheel heat-shrunk and came adrift, causing the webbing to break inside the gearbox - I needed a new clutch, flywheel and gearbox. (ouch).
BMW refused to pay for this. I was told by the BMW dealer that this repair was not covered under the terms of the BMW warranty, due to the fact that ‘racing, rallying or other competitive sports’ were specifically excluded.
I was then told that my ENTIRE BMW warranty was now invalid.
There then followed 5 letters from my lawyer to BMW explaining that a non-competitive driver improvement track day is not 'racing, rallying or a competative sport' and in each five replies BMW refused point blank to respond to this point.
They did however, under threat of litigation agree to re-instate the warranty, but have made it completely clear that under NO CIRCUMSTANCES will any defect that occurs whilst on ANY form of driver improvement day (including skid pans) be covered by the warranty.
They also refused to refund the money I spent on repairs.
I have today sent out a news release to all the motoring press, daily newspapers, consumer associations and relevant TV programmes to let people know of this situation.
The deputy Editor of Autocar's reaction was kind of typical of what I've heard back so far "what do they think the M stands for!"
My simple advice to any of you that are considering taking your car on a track is - don't tell BMW.
If any others out there have had similar problems, I'd be very interested to know (as would Autocar magazine).
You can e mail me: Steve@SteveCarter.com
If you would like to read the news release I have put a copy on the net ... here >>
www.stevecarter.com/news-release.htm
Thanks to Dom for his great assistance with this.
Steve
>>> Edited by getcarter on Tuesday 12th November 14:06
(posted here and on the BMW bit of this forum)
In today's (12/11/02) Autocar there is a letter from me regarding this (I was asked to write it by Autocar to see if there are other BMW drivers out there who have had the same problems.)
In case you missed the previous thread: I took my M3E46 on a few non-competitive track days (and as I was getting through a set of brake pads every day - BMW became aware of the fact that I was doing said track days). But when a pin locating the flywheel heat-shrunk and came adrift, causing the webbing to break inside the gearbox - I needed a new clutch, flywheel and gearbox. (ouch).
BMW refused to pay for this. I was told by the BMW dealer that this repair was not covered under the terms of the BMW warranty, due to the fact that ‘racing, rallying or other competitive sports’ were specifically excluded.
I was then told that my ENTIRE BMW warranty was now invalid.
There then followed 5 letters from my lawyer to BMW explaining that a non-competitive driver improvement track day is not 'racing, rallying or a competative sport' and in each five replies BMW refused point blank to respond to this point.
They did however, under threat of litigation agree to re-instate the warranty, but have made it completely clear that under NO CIRCUMSTANCES will any defect that occurs whilst on ANY form of driver improvement day (including skid pans) be covered by the warranty.
They also refused to refund the money I spent on repairs.
I have today sent out a news release to all the motoring press, daily newspapers, consumer associations and relevant TV programmes to let people know of this situation.
The deputy Editor of Autocar's reaction was kind of typical of what I've heard back so far "what do they think the M stands for!"
My simple advice to any of you that are considering taking your car on a track is - don't tell BMW.
If any others out there have had similar problems, I'd be very interested to know (as would Autocar magazine).
You can e mail me: Steve@SteveCarter.com
If you would like to read the news release I have put a copy on the net ... here >>
www.stevecarter.com/news-release.htm
Thanks to Dom for his great assistance with this.
Steve
>>> Edited by getcarter on Tuesday 12th November 14:06
Thanks for the update Steve, sorry it hasn't worked out better for you. Quite frankly I think BMW are acting in a disgraceful fashion refusing to refund you for the work undertaken. As you point out, what do they think the M stands for?
I certainly won't be taking my M3 on a track given BMWs attitude. Makes me wonder why I bought it if BMW don't believe it is strong enough to be used in the fashion for which it was designed. Time to trade it in for a Porsche I think...
I certainly won't be taking my M3 on a track given BMWs attitude. Makes me wonder why I bought it if BMW don't believe it is strong enough to be used in the fashion for which it was designed. Time to trade it in for a Porsche I think...
Give them hell, Steve. I think BMW have behaved in a disgraceful manner.
If BMW decide to limit their warranties - their cars won't be able to compete with TVR/Porsche who do no such thing...so they'll lose out in the end.
But it seems MAD that any motor manufacturer would do such a thing - since most of their good publicity comes from motorsport.
Bonkers. Absolutely bonkers.
If BMW decide to limit their warranties - their cars won't be able to compete with TVR/Porsche who do no such thing...so they'll lose out in the end.
But it seems MAD that any motor manufacturer would do such a thing - since most of their good publicity comes from motorsport.
Bonkers. Absolutely bonkers.
Bonkers utter bonkers - what is it with the arrogant BMW machine these days? No motor show, cancelling waranties? Almost seems like they dont want their customers any more - foolishly we do buy them as they are actually quite good cars...
Just another excuse for not buying one - shame really. Sorry to hear about your predicament and hopefully you can get somewhere with the costs. The only trouble being is that I suspect BMW are not alone here. I wonder how many other manufacturers would take the same decision.
Cheers,
Paul
Just another excuse for not buying one - shame really. Sorry to hear about your predicament and hopefully you can get somewhere with the costs. The only trouble being is that I suspect BMW are not alone here. I wonder how many other manufacturers would take the same decision.
Cheers,
Paul
pbrettle said: The only trouble being is that I suspect BMW are not alone here. I wonder how many other manufacturers would take the same decision.
Cheers,
Paul
The only problem I have with this is that most warranties do not preclude track days as such, but rely on a vague inference that 'competitive motorsport' covers any instance that yo may be going fast/hard.
Insurance companies do the same . . . how many of our policies say 'not for racing, trials, competitive motorsport' but refuse to pay out on the basis of this clause.
I think it needs a few test cases to challenge this, but all I can see them doing is changing the wording to not cover 'motorsports'.
On a side note, I had a test drive in a M Coupe and deliberately mentioned that I wanted it to replace my M5 as it was too 'lardy' for trackdays. At no time did the salesman point out that it would not be covered under the BMW warranty.
>> Edited by M-Five on Wednesday 13th November 09:44
M-Five saidOn a side note, I had a test drive in a M Coupe and deliberately mentioned that I wanted it to replace my M5 as it was too 'lardy' for trackdays. At no time did the salesman point out that it would not be covered under the BMW warranty.
On the contrary - when I have discussed trackdays with BMW salesmen and service reps (ref my M Roadster) they all positively encouraged me to take it on a track as 'that's the only place you'll really see what the car can do'.
BMW are clearly trying to reduce their warranty spend - which is a fair enough objective. But hiding behind an interpretation of ambiguous wording is very poor and seems to go against BMW's customer service philosophy.
I can fully understand that racing will invalidate warranties - but not non competetive trackdays. I might come down on the side of BMW if you are constantly destroying brake pads on trackdays - provided that there is no history of problem pads in 'normal road use. I would expect them to stump up for 2 or 3 replacements and then start to draw the line. The clutch to me though is an entirely different matter.
Steve - have you contacted the managing director of BMW GB directly about this? Are you going to pursue the matter legally?
I also think that this should get wider publication - Ted - can Steve's press release go on the front page?
As an aside, I was looking at the Caterham Academy race series car at the motor show, and took away some info.
Reading it at home I noticed that Caterham give a one year warranty on their cars. However, if you race the car it invalidates the warranty, although they may make goodwill gestures on a case by case basis.
However - as Caterham sell you the car as a race car - for use in their racing series - it is clearly being sold as a race car. Under the sale of goods act the car must be fit for purpose. So if you engine goes pop on the third race and Caterham refuse to help, you could still get them under the sale of goods act.
I know someone who bought a racing engine from Renault and it blew in the first outing. Renault said tough, no warranty if you race it - it says so on the invoice. Summons through the small claims court and they paid up - it was a race engine and should have been fit for purpose - racing.
Not sure if this approach would work for you Steve - would depend on the age of the car?
>> Edited by griff2be on Wednesday 13th November 11:14
Reading it at home I noticed that Caterham give a one year warranty on their cars. However, if you race the car it invalidates the warranty, although they may make goodwill gestures on a case by case basis.
However - as Caterham sell you the car as a race car - for use in their racing series - it is clearly being sold as a race car. Under the sale of goods act the car must be fit for purpose. So if you engine goes pop on the third race and Caterham refuse to help, you could still get them under the sale of goods act.
I know someone who bought a racing engine from Renault and it blew in the first outing. Renault said tough, no warranty if you race it - it says so on the invoice. Summons through the small claims court and they paid up - it was a race engine and should have been fit for purpose - racing.
Not sure if this approach would work for you Steve - would depend on the age of the car?
>> Edited by griff2be on Wednesday 13th November 11:14
Finally got a result in my dispute with BMW. Having piled the pressure on with press and public opinion - I think BMW finally realised this was going to look REALLY bad for them.
My lawyer got a letter from the Managing Director of BMW (GB) today... the important bits below:
"In an effort to address the main issue of your client's complaint, I would agree that the attendance of the track event by your client as described should not be likened to "racing, rallying or a competitive sport", where even a high performance road going vehicle such as an M3 will require modification to avoid extreme wear and/or failure of engine, suspension or associated components. I would deem our refusal to cover the costs of this repair under the terms of our warranty unacceptable. I will therefore ensure that Mr Carter receives full reimbursement for the repairs carried out. I will also ensure that the wording in our warranty documentation is updated to avoid any further ambiguity."
Thanks to all who gave support - especially Dom from this forum.
>> Edited by getcarter on Monday 2nd December 13:52
My lawyer got a letter from the Managing Director of BMW (GB) today... the important bits below:
"In an effort to address the main issue of your client's complaint, I would agree that the attendance of the track event by your client as described should not be likened to "racing, rallying or a competitive sport", where even a high performance road going vehicle such as an M3 will require modification to avoid extreme wear and/or failure of engine, suspension or associated components. I would deem our refusal to cover the costs of this repair under the terms of our warranty unacceptable. I will therefore ensure that Mr Carter receives full reimbursement for the repairs carried out. I will also ensure that the wording in our warranty documentation is updated to avoid any further ambiguity."
Thanks to all who gave support - especially Dom from this forum.
>> Edited by getcarter on Monday 2nd December 13:52
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