Second Car Advice - RWD and 4WD Only
Discussion
I have a Supercharged MX5 as a fun car but I want something for long trips with a bit
more comfort / space, to replace my BMW 328 and Prelude Vtec.
Rules :
It must be rear or 4 wheel drive
Must cost under £8,000, the cheaper the better
Fun to drive but with some comfort
Some practicality would be handy
Insurance is irrelevent, mpg above 20 would be nice.
So far I have come up with:
Toyota Supra NA or Twin turbo
Porsche 944, S2 or turbo
Skyline GTS 2.5 single turbo
M3
Celica GT4
Legacy Twin Turbo
I don't want a money pit so I'm ruling out the RX7.
As it will be sometimes parked on the road outside my girlfriend's, I
don't think I'd risk a Cossie, EVO or Impreza plus I'd prefer a coupe to a
saloon.
I think the GTiR looks horrid and whilst I'd love an old M3 I'm not
willing to have LHD and they seem overpriced.
Comments and suggestions welcome particularly if you own one of my 'list'
Mark
more comfort / space, to replace my BMW 328 and Prelude Vtec.
Rules :
It must be rear or 4 wheel drive
Must cost under £8,000, the cheaper the better
Fun to drive but with some comfort
Some practicality would be handy
Insurance is irrelevent, mpg above 20 would be nice.
So far I have come up with:
Toyota Supra NA or Twin turbo
Porsche 944, S2 or turbo
Skyline GTS 2.5 single turbo
M3
Celica GT4
Legacy Twin Turbo
I don't want a money pit so I'm ruling out the RX7.
As it will be sometimes parked on the road outside my girlfriend's, I
don't think I'd risk a Cossie, EVO or Impreza plus I'd prefer a coupe to a
saloon.
I think the GTiR looks horrid and whilst I'd love an old M3 I'm not
willing to have LHD and they seem overpriced.
Comments and suggestions welcome particularly if you own one of my 'list'
Mark
which Supra are you considering? Mk3 or Mk4, avoid the Mk3 3.0L turbo the much rarer 2.5L Twin Turbo is the best one to go for in a Mk3. Mk4 is a better car all round and the Twin Turbo is the one to go for if you can afford it, very solid cars.
Skyline R33 GTS-t are also good solid cars, probably not as outright quick as a TT Supra though.
Celica GT4s tend to be a bit on the heavy side if they have lots of the luxury extras and the gearboxes are often fitted with tall gearing which means it's not as quick as it could be.
The legacy is a wagon or sedan, more discreet than the others and very practical, I would be tempted by one of these but I do tend to prefer discreet, fast sedans.
Skyline R33 GTS-t are also good solid cars, probably not as outright quick as a TT Supra though.
Celica GT4s tend to be a bit on the heavy side if they have lots of the luxury extras and the gearboxes are often fitted with tall gearing which means it's not as quick as it could be.
The legacy is a wagon or sedan, more discreet than the others and very practical, I would be tempted by one of these but I do tend to prefer discreet, fast sedans.
I think it is the Mk4 - the one with the big headlights 92 - 96 I think... but are they fun ?
The reason I'm thinking the NA might be better is that you can use the gears etc and not be into warp speed - some cars are just too quick for the roads these days.
I'm torn with the Legacy... effectively twin turbo Impreza running gear without the constant worry of it being stolen, against the fact it looks like your Dads car...
I had an S2 and it only managed 22mpg at 80mph in 6th, averaged 14 !
I forgot to mention I'd want a manual and I think they only did the 2.7 T.Turbo in an auto, I'll check on the S6 but I think that's the same.
Vixpy1 - I see you have a Legacy and used to have an M3, as I tend to do fast A roads over motorway whenever possible would you still reccommend the GTB, which is more fun ?
Thanks
Mark
>> Edited by redgriff500 on Tuesday 27th December 15:16
The reason I'm thinking the NA might be better is that you can use the gears etc and not be into warp speed - some cars are just too quick for the roads these days.
I'm torn with the Legacy... effectively twin turbo Impreza running gear without the constant worry of it being stolen, against the fact it looks like your Dads car...
I had an S2 and it only managed 22mpg at 80mph in 6th, averaged 14 !
I forgot to mention I'd want a manual and I think they only did the 2.7 T.Turbo in an auto, I'll check on the S6 but I think that's the same.
Vixpy1 - I see you have a Legacy and used to have an M3, as I tend to do fast A roads over motorway whenever possible would you still reccommend the GTB, which is more fun ?
Thanks
Mark
>> Edited by redgriff500 on Tuesday 27th December 15:16
redgriff500 said:
Vixpy1 - I see you have a Legacy and used to have an M3, as I tend to do fast A roads over motorway whenever possible would you still reccommend the GTB, which is more fun ?
Thanks
Mark
Oh, the M3.... the only reason i got rid of mine was because i stuffed it. Good Mpg, very quick as well.
Having said that.. the Legacy does have a certain charm.. and is great fun, and is an estate.
Considered a few of the cars on the list myself before I bought the MR2 Turbo. You'd get a good one for under 5K, 220 or 240bhp+ as standard, RWD, no driver aids, 0-100 mph in 15 secs before you modify it. Group 20 insurance, you'll struggle to see 20 mpg unless you baby it. Only 2 seats, but there is a boot...
From your list I seriously considered a 944 S2 or T, but was put off by potential bills for engine work. The build-quality, image and handling were plus points, but in the end I realised that there were faster sports cars that cost less to run. The M3 is an absolute 4-wheeled atom bomb; mate has an E36 Evo, and all 321 horses through the rear tyres are entertaining. I liked the build-quality, although you'd have to pull around all the 'tw@t in a fast BMW' baggage that goes with the car. I drove it for half an hour in Edinburgh and other drivers do vent some prejudice towards you (although that may be due to me going up a slip road onto the bypass at full throttle in 2nd in a pant-soiling 50 yard drift...)
I'd second the Galant VR4 suggestion. It was far better than I was expecting, loads of shove and a very good auto box (and I don't like autos). It also looks like the sort of thing Darth Vader would commute to work in.
Some other ideas:
Nissan 300ZX - Loads of performance, probably a money pit. See: RX7...
Nissan S14 200SX - Relatively cheap to run, back seats, drift-tastic
Renault Alpine GTA - Rare, looks great, goes. How do you fancy sourcing body panels for a 20 year-old plastic French sports car though??
Old M5?
Audi UR Quattro?
>> Edited by speedtwelve on Tuesday 27th December 19:12
From your list I seriously considered a 944 S2 or T, but was put off by potential bills for engine work. The build-quality, image and handling were plus points, but in the end I realised that there were faster sports cars that cost less to run. The M3 is an absolute 4-wheeled atom bomb; mate has an E36 Evo, and all 321 horses through the rear tyres are entertaining. I liked the build-quality, although you'd have to pull around all the 'tw@t in a fast BMW' baggage that goes with the car. I drove it for half an hour in Edinburgh and other drivers do vent some prejudice towards you (although that may be due to me going up a slip road onto the bypass at full throttle in 2nd in a pant-soiling 50 yard drift...)
I'd second the Galant VR4 suggestion. It was far better than I was expecting, loads of shove and a very good auto box (and I don't like autos). It also looks like the sort of thing Darth Vader would commute to work in.
Some other ideas:
Nissan 300ZX - Loads of performance, probably a money pit. See: RX7...
Nissan S14 200SX - Relatively cheap to run, back seats, drift-tastic
Renault Alpine GTA - Rare, looks great, goes. How do you fancy sourcing body panels for a 20 year-old plastic French sports car though??
Old M5?
Audi UR Quattro?
>> Edited by speedtwelve on Tuesday 27th December 19:12
Good suggestions, but not many owners so far....
I don't think the Forester is for me, the MR2 and 300ZX being solely 2 seaters are too limited really. I don't think a Smart needs commenting on.
A mate had the VR4 and reported 14mpg which isn't acceptable, I get around 26 from both the BMW and Prelude.
I had an S13 200SX and it had terrible seats, low headroom and was laggy is the 2ltr much better, or to put it another way, as it gives up 500cc to the Skyline, surely it's inferior to that ?
I'm not a fan of the M5, having driven one, it doesn't have the low down punch of the 535, it drives more like a big 16v, tremedous engineering achievement, but not fun.
I have had a 944 turbo before and liked it but thought I'd see what else was on offer, so I think the short list is :
944 S2 or Turbo
Skyline GTS
M3 3.0 or Evo
Supra NA or TT
Anyone got any links to good reviews ?
>> Edited by redgriff500 on Tuesday 27th December 23:01
I don't think the Forester is for me, the MR2 and 300ZX being solely 2 seaters are too limited really. I don't think a Smart needs commenting on.
A mate had the VR4 and reported 14mpg which isn't acceptable, I get around 26 from both the BMW and Prelude.
I had an S13 200SX and it had terrible seats, low headroom and was laggy is the 2ltr much better, or to put it another way, as it gives up 500cc to the Skyline, surely it's inferior to that ?
I'm not a fan of the M5, having driven one, it doesn't have the low down punch of the 535, it drives more like a big 16v, tremedous engineering achievement, but not fun.
I have had a 944 turbo before and liked it but thought I'd see what else was on offer, so I think the short list is :
944 S2 or Turbo
Skyline GTS
M3 3.0 or Evo
Supra NA or TT
Anyone got any links to good reviews ?
>> Edited by redgriff500 on Tuesday 27th December 23:01
I've owned both supra NA and TT and can recomend them both if you just looking for a long distance motorway crusier. Forget taking anyone in the rear seats bigger than about 4 foot tho. Also both the NA and TT will give 20mpg+ with a light right foot. With 8K you could probably get a UK Spec TT (The UK spec ones have a higher spec than most jap imports). Have a look at www.mkivsupra.net the owners club for more info.
Yeah MK4 TT is the way to go if a supra is your choice. A friend has a mk4 TT and he drives it extremely hard all the time and messed about with the boost. I've never seen such reliability - about 140k and still on the original turbos even after he's got his mitts on it.
MK3's are nice though if you like the 80's theme - i used to have a turbo one. Best car i have had, although i did have to throw cash at it. Some of that was just down to previous owners not looking after it though. Head gaskets blow literally every other week as standard on the MK3, which is a shame really as they are great cars
A metal headgasket and a decent block/head skim can sort that though. Wire ringing the block is also a popular fix as well i have heard.
Good luck with your hunt !
MK3's are nice though if you like the 80's theme - i used to have a turbo one. Best car i have had, although i did have to throw cash at it. Some of that was just down to previous owners not looking after it though. Head gaskets blow literally every other week as standard on the MK3, which is a shame really as they are great cars
A metal headgasket and a decent block/head skim can sort that though. Wire ringing the block is also a popular fix as well i have heard. Good luck with your hunt !
redgriff500 said:
944 S2 or Turbo
Skyline GTS
M3 3.0 or Evo
Supra NA or TT
>> Edited by redgriff500 on Tuesday 27th December 23:01
From what you are saying it sounds like you need one of the German barges.
Personally I love 944s (I've had two) get one with good history and you won't go far wrong, pretty much the same as the M3 to be honest, these can be so understated yet massively rewarding to own, unlike a Supra which most people look a tit in!
Thanks again,
FTO and Corrado are both front wheel drive IIRC.
Well after reading the posts and the review it looks like the NA supra would be a poor choice and really the TT is stretching it a bit.
The M3 is very practical but I'm bored of my 328 and fancy a change so I guess that means:
944 v Skyline GTS... the Skyline is more practical
Anyone own a Skyline ?
FTO and Corrado are both front wheel drive IIRC.
Well after reading the posts and the review it looks like the NA supra would be a poor choice and really the TT is stretching it a bit.
The M3 is very practical but I'm bored of my 328 and fancy a change so I guess that means:
944 v Skyline GTS... the Skyline is more practical
Anyone own a Skyline ?
Bomber Denton said:
From what you are saying it sounds like you need one of the German barges.
Personally I love 944s (I've had two) get one with good history and you won't go far wrong, pretty much the same as the M3 to be honest, these can be so understated yet massively rewarding to own, unlike a Supra which most people look a tit in!
I've got a supra and the only time i've had a 944 is when leaving them behind in my mirror making them look a tit
Saying that my uncle did have a gold one back in the 80's. Are you really dead set against an Impreza?? They are so cheap nowadays and the 4wd is great. The Supra in cold wet weather (England) isn't always the safest of cars but alot of fun when putting 320bhp down on the road. Good time to buy too as prices are round the 6/7K mark.
I'd be tempted to bide my time and keep a look out for an M3 maybe.
Yes I borrowed a Scooby for a few weeks and found it too easy to drive fast, also it understeers and is front biased. Not to mention 8 were stolen within a 10 mile radius of my house in 2 weeks.
Supras... I would only have a manual (and not white) and I've only seen TT ones on Ebay and A trader upwards of £8,000, nice ones £10 - 12000.
Interesting that you have a Supra and reccommend an M3... as did the guy who had a twin turbo Legacy...
>> Edited by redgriff500 on Wednesday 28th December 18:55
Supras... I would only have a manual (and not white) and I've only seen TT ones on Ebay and A trader upwards of £8,000, nice ones £10 - 12000.
Interesting that you have a Supra and reccommend an M3... as did the guy who had a twin turbo Legacy...
>> Edited by redgriff500 on Wednesday 28th December 18:55
I've had a Skyline R33 GTR and a 200SX S14a (currently have).
On UK roads for general driving I'd plump for the 200SX any day. Its a much more comfy ride, driftastic and compared to a Skyline (~1400kg) you get a much lighter car (~1250kg) and newer/usually less mileage for the same money. Given the weight differences there isn't that much in it performance wise but the 200 is more chuckable. The 200SX doesn't suffer lag badly at all, stock it feels very linear, but add the stage 1 mods and spool up is improved more! Ultimate tuning the GTR would win though and is still a blinding car in its own right, though I would always feel it should have been a GTR (which is why I bought mine!). You can get a 200SX to 270bhp for way less than 1k and that is a pretty darn rapid car then!
On UK roads for general driving I'd plump for the 200SX any day. Its a much more comfy ride, driftastic and compared to a Skyline (~1400kg) you get a much lighter car (~1250kg) and newer/usually less mileage for the same money. Given the weight differences there isn't that much in it performance wise but the 200 is more chuckable. The 200SX doesn't suffer lag badly at all, stock it feels very linear, but add the stage 1 mods and spool up is improved more! Ultimate tuning the GTR would win though and is still a blinding car in its own right, though I would always feel it should have been a GTR (which is why I bought mine!). You can get a 200SX to 270bhp for way less than 1k and that is a pretty darn rapid car then!
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