John Williams........
Discussion
... After the Last of the Mohicans thread, I was listening to the soundtrack and was wondering, although many hold John Willaims in VERY high esteem, (same he isn't here anymore), but in say 100 years time will he be as revered as say Mozart, or Beethoven? Why is it modern composers are not held up at this level? Although he made much of his career doing 'movie music' it is some of the greatest, and most memorable pieces that you will hear. What do the peeps think???
www.imdb.com/name/nm0002354/
One hell of a list!
www.imdb.com/name/nm0002354/
One hell of a list!
Eric Mc said:
I thought John Williams was still with us!
Same here?
Does anyone know of a "greatest hits" as such of his work. Been into HMV and Virgin et ál, but none seem to have anything other than having to buy the soundtrack for each film. I like his work as it's generally from Hollywood blockbuster films (my favorites). Had a great moment going into Universal studios in Florida a few years back, as we were walking under the arches at the entrance the Jurrasic Park music was playing. Loved it
.JonRB said:
There's no death date listed on that imdb link, so it's fair to assume that John Williams is indeed still with us.
It also says he is working on a few films as we speak, unless he is doing that from beyond the grave
A case of reports of his death having been greatly exaggerated?
los angeles said:
Classical composition requires creation from an original idea fully developed, not theme music for a film which can and does get hacked about in the diting room. The reward for swallowing their pride is to compose an overture of the main themes and use it to lead a CD of the movie music.
Spot on. I was about to say the same thing myself. Composers such as Beethoven or Mozart wrote music for the sake of music. They developed not only the musical motifs themselves, but also a complicated structure to the music itself, and developed musical ideas through frameworks such as Sonata form. Music writren for films and shows obviously has a very different agenda with different constraints. Bear in mind also, that music for film has to be used as background music, even if it is prominent there are usually visuals accompanying it. Good Beethoven makes you sit up and give it all your attention, so nothing else matters but the music. I can't honestly say that I'd put on some John Williams and sit entranced for an hour like I would with Beethoven's 3rd, 5th or 7th symphonies. However, I must confess that much of the differential treatment of various composers is down to how the media and scholars view particular genres of music.
Another thing is that whilst John Williams is very talented, I'm sure that even his greatest admirers would agree that comparing him to Beethoven is a little far fetched. For sure, Williams is probably more able than many lesser composers of Mozart and Beethoven's period, but then we're back to the other side of the coin, which is the stuffy academic atmosphere that offers preferential treatment to composers merely because they are dead and old.
A combination of two things then, I think.
up-the-dubs said:
Does anyone know of a "greatest hits" as such of his work.
http://play.com/play247.asp?page=titl
http://play.com/play247.asp?page=titl
You obviously didn't look that hard!
I bought the first one, on 4 SACDs for those of you lucky enough to have the hardware to enjoy the enhanced quality. Although I don't often find myself listening to it, a spirited cross-country drive takes on a whole new dimension when it is accompanied by the theme from Indiana Jones!
John Williams' contributions to modern cinema cannot be underestimated. The themes that occur duting Schindler's List for example have you in tears before you even see the atrocities. He's versatile too, in a way Lalo Schifrin, Danny Elfman or Bernard Herrmann weren't (and I'm not saying they aren't/weren't good, they're masters at what they do); check out the jazzy score for Catch Me If You Can recently. One gifted fella.
Dave200 said:
Does anyone know of a "greatest hits" as such of his work.
http://play.com/play247.asp?page=titl
http://play.com/play247.asp?page=titl
You obviously didn't look that hard!
I bought the first one, on 4 SACDs for those of you lucky enough to have the hardware to enjoy the enhanced quality. Although I don't often find myself listening to it, a spirited cross-country drive takes on a whole new dimension when it is accompanied by the theme from Indiana Jones!
Ahem....
. That was easy! Why do people in shops fail at everything other than taking my money? Anyway, cheers. Bought the second one. Phantom Menace should be banned from car stereos 
.los angeles said:
Classical composition requires creation from an original idea fully developed, not theme music for a film which can and does get hacked about in the diting room. The reward for swallowing their pride is to compose an overture of the main themes and use it to lead a CD of the movie music.
I'm not sure I totally agree with you LA. Some, but not all scoring is edited away (though famously James Brown produced a raft of original songs for one of the blaxploitation movies, when they had only wanted 10 and 30 second 'punches'). On several occasions Sergio Leone choreographed the film to Ennio Morricone's music, most famously on Once Upon A Time In The West. Is that any different to getting some chap in a huge codpiece to jump up and down to Swan Lake? What's more, I find several of Morricone's soundtracks to work as music only. In a similar vein, Miles Davis' soundtrack to Ascenseur Pour L'Echefaud is considered one of his most significant works. If anyone were to be considered a 20th Century Beethoven, Davis and Stravinsky would be at the top of any serious list.
I don't claim to know music well enough to say whether a Morricone or Williams composition has the depth of the classical composers, but if the soundtrack stands without the video, it has every chance of being recognised and accepted on a similar level. Perhaps not as a Mozart, but perhaps against a Sibelius, ELgar or Copland.
With John Williams (though I'm not an expert on his stuff) you might have a problem compared to a Morricone that he has not scored a movie as a single musical piece, rather a cracking title piece with some short incidental pieces in support. He might also be criticised for being rather populist. But again, there's nothing in the rule book that classical pieces have to be at least twenty minutes long and deeply intellectual.
And be honest, would you really claim that the hairs on the back of your neck don't stand up to the opening clarion of "Theme from Rocky" as they do for Holst's "Jupiter"?
I think the term we are looking for is program Music,
That is what film scores are just as many of the famous composers in the past made music that "told a story" etc.
I think that Mr Williams will be respected in the future and his music played in the same way that we listen to the program music from other classical orchestral composers.
On a straw pole of ex girlfriend who are now proffesional orchestral musicians (4 of them........well its a fetish of sorts) they all think that his music will be around for many generations to come.
That is what film scores are just as many of the famous composers in the past made music that "told a story" etc.
I think that Mr Williams will be respected in the future and his music played in the same way that we listen to the program music from other classical orchestral composers.
On a straw pole of ex girlfriend who are now proffesional orchestral musicians (4 of them........well its a fetish of sorts) they all think that his music will be around for many generations to come.
Yes, I think that music by Morricone and Williams will be around for decades to come; but their music is obviously in a different genre to Beethoven and Mozart, and as such spoken of in a different light. This is much like comparing Brian May with the other John Williams (classical guitarist). Both are superb musicians, but revered in a totally different way by different forms of media and often by different people who get things across in different ways.
I must confess that from a personal point of view, I've yet to hear any modern film music that gets near to Beethoven's orchestrational or compositional genius. That's just my opinion though
I must confess that from a personal point of view, I've yet to hear any modern film music that gets near to Beethoven's orchestrational or compositional genius. That's just my opinion though
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