Car Limits... Walshy Day... and all that jazz...
Discussion
For any new Lotus owners, or anyone considering the merits of a driver training day with Andrew Walsh at Carlimts.com, here are my thoughts and observations of such a day. For those who’ve been - sorry, you know all this already. For those who haven’t - why not? (Quick warning – this is rather long!
)
I’m not advertising the services, just imparting a lay-mans experience to others in a similar position. I’ve read so many times that the best and first upgrade to any new Elise / Exige (or any performance car come to that) is to improve and educate the driver. Excellent, accurate and very profound advice indeed. If you are actually too experienced and skilled for it, fair play to you. If you just think you’re too good to try it, best of luck (…see www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=253642&f=15&h=0) for a classic example
It all started just after midnight on Wednesday morning when I noticed a post from Walshy saying that his Thursday session still had spaces. I contemplated the ‘can I, should I?’ bit for a while, but just thought that I've said all along I want to do one, there is space, it could be a little damp (realistic road conditions!) and I can wangle work so sod it, I'm going
It was a pretty sizeable consideration in my case though because it would mean travelling up from Devon, doing the day and then home again straight after. Tucked myself up in bed stupidly early (for me) at 10:15pm on Wednesday night for a 3am start, but lying there thinking about this and that saw me still wide awake at 1:30am! Managed to drift off for an hour and half before surfacing and hitting the road at 4am. Easy trip up - even the M25 was continuously moving at 7:45am
Walshy was adjusting a few wind-affected cones with the front of his courtesy Pug when I pulled up at North Weald. He then handbrake parked himself alongside his four gathered ‘students’ and we begin
Ever the gent, I conceded to ladies first - one in a 111R, another in a Porsche Boxster S and after setting a guy who had attended twice before in an M3 CSL off on some warm-up exercises, Andy then proceeded to take some time to assess new drivers' basic abilities one at a time
My turn came around - yeay! We set off and first up is the emergency stop. Never hit the brakes hard in my new Elise before, so didn't know quite how much to stand on them, but all was cool and Andy was suitably pleased that the clutch didn't go down too early. (Quick tip here - if you haven't seen the Car Limits DVD, then do so before going as it gives you some handy pointers like the 'clutch not going down too early on a rapid stop' type one!)
It was then off to the ‘hammering down a straight, releasing the throttle and flying around a 90 degree bend’ exercise. As always, Andy lets you start off at a pace you're happy with and then you can increase it as confidence grows. 60 mph is simple. 65 no worries. If this is your first time, 70 starts to get interesting... particularly when the bump in the surface hits hard as you start to turn! So much so that it's soon spin city! I've personally never spun in a car before - it's great to get that experience! Not scary, just educational. It’s important to stress that spinning and losing control is vital to your learning curve. It is induced and encouraged to help you ‘feel’ the car and gain better understanding. It’s all perfectly safe with plenty of run-off area and time to get the clutch in (to stop the engine running backwards) and apply the brakes to bring things to an easy halt
Andy explained that most chaps fall foul of this because they use their super-human strength to grip the wheel and battle it hard. He then tried to get me to take the same corner at 70 with just one finger on top of the wheel to demonstrate how little resistance actually allows the car to show you what it wants to do and enables it to all happen without resulting in a spin. That felt bloody odd hurtling down an airfield feeder road using just one finger to control the car with... needless to say, right at the point of turning in I said "Can’t do that - just feels wrong!!" I didn't doubt Andy's word of course, but in 17 years of driving I'd never attempted such a thing before! Mr Walsh then proceeded to demonstrate... we approached the corner, he flicked it sideways and let go of everything! Sure enough, the car wiggled, sorted itself out and away we went
With this knowledge and a conscious awareness of letting the car move, it was back to the high-speed corner to practice a nice soft touch and develop some feedback inspired control. Andy hops between cars to spend time with each of the four students whilst you all take it in turns to practice what you're focussing on. The good thing here is that his approach allows different drivers with differing levels of skill and adventure to continue at their own pace. Some will get it quickly, others will not have the confidence in themselves or their cars to push the limits... but that is exactly what it's all about - learning about your car but even more importantly, learning about yourself
The Car Limits DVD is titled ‘Bending The Rules’ – I’ve done one of these days now and of course don’t claim to be any expert, although the next stage I guess lends itself to that in as much as Andy gets you to brake hard going into and through corner – not exactly what we’re taught or practice usually. There is indeed a train of thought that says you should get all your braking done in a straight line before entering the corner, but again whilst not professing to be a professor of the art, I guess that’s really geared towards getting prepared for better exit speeds on track. Learning what the car will do under hard braking in a corner is more related to everyday situation and even more pertinently, in an emergency. If you haven’t learnt all about some useful do’s and don’ts, the chances are you’ll do the wrong thing just when you need good technique the most
After hurtling into the bend at 85 and hitting the brakes hard whilst turning to induce under-steer (i.e. you steer left but the car goes straight on) it was time for Andy to introduce the next stage. Fast in, brake hard whilst turning and lift completely off the brake pedal… the back overtakes the front and you spin again! We then develop this a stage further. Fast in, turn whilst braking hard, to induce under-steer, lift off to start the back coming round, brakes on again to counter that movement and so on… next thing you know, you’ve taken the corner whilst braking hard and controlling the attitude of the car with the brake pedal alone. Again, this isn’t aimed at quick lap times on a track, it’s about feeling, understanding and practising the technique so it’s there for you when you need it – or at the very least, all goes into the mix for building sound educational experience for you with your car
Slip-angle theory is then introduced and this basically centres on the point whereby forward momentum overcomes the steering ability of the front wheels. Turning the wheel more has no effect once the threshold has been exceeded and this demonstrates how futile extra steering input is when the ‘optimum slip-angle’ has been exceeded. You get to feel that point through the steering wheel and how to appreciate what it’s telling you. You experience how you can increase and decrease the diameter of the constant circle you’re driving simply by adding more or less power to make bigger and smaller circles without actually turning the steering any more or less from the half lock you’re holding
The post-lunch session is a coned out circuit – start here, around that one, back to this one, through those two etc etc. Andy drives you around slowly at first, showing you the route, braking and turn-in points and so on. He then displays his talents once again by doing it at pace and making it all look very easy He closes by saying ‘Oh by the way, it’s not as easy as it looks!’ …you don’t say?!?! Then it’s your turn to have three laps at it – which of course you spend just trying to remember which way you’re going and forgetting all your braking and turn-in markers! Then the other drivers have their turn. After this, you all have more laps at it and get to passenger with each other
Walshy builds this up as ‘having a bit of fun after lunch’ - and it is… it is just fantastic. I’ve driven some good cars in a fairly spirited manner in my time – but have never done anything like that. Getting it sideways to take hairpins after inducing spin and powering through is just stunning. I’ll state again that this is of course tremendous fun, but it is all about practising, feeling and understanding car control as well as being incredibly educational both in terms of technique and finding out about yourself. (Hearing the guy with the M3 CSL making noises under G in the corners and saying “I think I’ve bought the wrong car” was rather rewarding too!
)
4pm rolled around and that was that… apart from the 5 1/2 hour trip home again in heavy traffic and torrential rain
the M4 near Bristol was more like the river Severn. After the days experience, did I feel more confident in those conditions? Well no, not really, but then again I don’t get easily scared and always have consummate respect for these cars in those conditions. Simple. (Does anyone else get those ‘Seriously guys, take it easy in the wet’ PH posts flashing through their minds in these circumstances.? I hope so)
What was very, very apparent though was the feeling when I eventually hit the A and B roads nearer home of how much more ‘connected’ and ‘at one’ with the car I felt. That feeling was tremendously rewarding… I mean seriously rewarding, even though I wasn’t driving faster, I felt I was driving better. Do I now think that I can hurtle around the bends quicker and take more risks than I did before the training day? No of course not. Anyone who comes away thinking they’re now simply an even better lunatic has missed the point totally
One thing has struck me however and I make an analogy with football coaching – you can teach players correct techniques etc, but how they apply that in split second during the heat of the moment is what separates the great from the mediocre. I feel the same here – how do you know what to apply and when to do it? And in what amounts? Sometimes you may want to add more steering when in fact a little lift off the throttle would help… or even a touch on the brake etc etc. I can only surmise that practice, practice, practice is the way forward on that score – and even then, that’s only of you’re planning to hit the track and have a suitable facility / area at which to do it. Deliberately getting sideways at silly speeds on the open road is just asking for trouble – loon about all you like for sure, but don’t create a situation where you can bring innocent others into it. Despite not fully grasping an exact correlation of how it all goes together just yet, I am still in absolutely no doubt that it has helped enormously on many levels
In summary – I spent 585 miles and practically 17 hours in my car and loved every minute. The car, the trip, Walshy, the training, the experience – everything! If you’re considering it - just do it. If you haven’t thought about it yet - just do it! I’ll be looking to do another to cement all my thoughts and rehearse and develop good technique and of course activity days whereby you get to practice without the instruction (I think!) would obviously come in very useful… now, how can I get North Weald on the back of a lorry to Devon..?
I strongly recommend it to anyone and everyone
) I’m not advertising the services, just imparting a lay-mans experience to others in a similar position. I’ve read so many times that the best and first upgrade to any new Elise / Exige (or any performance car come to that) is to improve and educate the driver. Excellent, accurate and very profound advice indeed. If you are actually too experienced and skilled for it, fair play to you. If you just think you’re too good to try it, best of luck (…see www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=253642&f=15&h=0) for a classic example
It all started just after midnight on Wednesday morning when I noticed a post from Walshy saying that his Thursday session still had spaces. I contemplated the ‘can I, should I?’ bit for a while, but just thought that I've said all along I want to do one, there is space, it could be a little damp (realistic road conditions!) and I can wangle work so sod it, I'm going
It was a pretty sizeable consideration in my case though because it would mean travelling up from Devon, doing the day and then home again straight after. Tucked myself up in bed stupidly early (for me) at 10:15pm on Wednesday night for a 3am start, but lying there thinking about this and that saw me still wide awake at 1:30am! Managed to drift off for an hour and half before surfacing and hitting the road at 4am. Easy trip up - even the M25 was continuously moving at 7:45am
Walshy was adjusting a few wind-affected cones with the front of his courtesy Pug when I pulled up at North Weald. He then handbrake parked himself alongside his four gathered ‘students’ and we begin
Ever the gent, I conceded to ladies first - one in a 111R, another in a Porsche Boxster S and after setting a guy who had attended twice before in an M3 CSL off on some warm-up exercises, Andy then proceeded to take some time to assess new drivers' basic abilities one at a time
My turn came around - yeay! We set off and first up is the emergency stop. Never hit the brakes hard in my new Elise before, so didn't know quite how much to stand on them, but all was cool and Andy was suitably pleased that the clutch didn't go down too early. (Quick tip here - if you haven't seen the Car Limits DVD, then do so before going as it gives you some handy pointers like the 'clutch not going down too early on a rapid stop' type one!)
It was then off to the ‘hammering down a straight, releasing the throttle and flying around a 90 degree bend’ exercise. As always, Andy lets you start off at a pace you're happy with and then you can increase it as confidence grows. 60 mph is simple. 65 no worries. If this is your first time, 70 starts to get interesting... particularly when the bump in the surface hits hard as you start to turn! So much so that it's soon spin city! I've personally never spun in a car before - it's great to get that experience! Not scary, just educational. It’s important to stress that spinning and losing control is vital to your learning curve. It is induced and encouraged to help you ‘feel’ the car and gain better understanding. It’s all perfectly safe with plenty of run-off area and time to get the clutch in (to stop the engine running backwards) and apply the brakes to bring things to an easy halt
Andy explained that most chaps fall foul of this because they use their super-human strength to grip the wheel and battle it hard. He then tried to get me to take the same corner at 70 with just one finger on top of the wheel to demonstrate how little resistance actually allows the car to show you what it wants to do and enables it to all happen without resulting in a spin. That felt bloody odd hurtling down an airfield feeder road using just one finger to control the car with... needless to say, right at the point of turning in I said "Can’t do that - just feels wrong!!" I didn't doubt Andy's word of course, but in 17 years of driving I'd never attempted such a thing before! Mr Walsh then proceeded to demonstrate... we approached the corner, he flicked it sideways and let go of everything! Sure enough, the car wiggled, sorted itself out and away we went
With this knowledge and a conscious awareness of letting the car move, it was back to the high-speed corner to practice a nice soft touch and develop some feedback inspired control. Andy hops between cars to spend time with each of the four students whilst you all take it in turns to practice what you're focussing on. The good thing here is that his approach allows different drivers with differing levels of skill and adventure to continue at their own pace. Some will get it quickly, others will not have the confidence in themselves or their cars to push the limits... but that is exactly what it's all about - learning about your car but even more importantly, learning about yourself
The Car Limits DVD is titled ‘Bending The Rules’ – I’ve done one of these days now and of course don’t claim to be any expert, although the next stage I guess lends itself to that in as much as Andy gets you to brake hard going into and through corner – not exactly what we’re taught or practice usually. There is indeed a train of thought that says you should get all your braking done in a straight line before entering the corner, but again whilst not professing to be a professor of the art, I guess that’s really geared towards getting prepared for better exit speeds on track. Learning what the car will do under hard braking in a corner is more related to everyday situation and even more pertinently, in an emergency. If you haven’t learnt all about some useful do’s and don’ts, the chances are you’ll do the wrong thing just when you need good technique the most
After hurtling into the bend at 85 and hitting the brakes hard whilst turning to induce under-steer (i.e. you steer left but the car goes straight on) it was time for Andy to introduce the next stage. Fast in, brake hard whilst turning and lift completely off the brake pedal… the back overtakes the front and you spin again! We then develop this a stage further. Fast in, turn whilst braking hard, to induce under-steer, lift off to start the back coming round, brakes on again to counter that movement and so on… next thing you know, you’ve taken the corner whilst braking hard and controlling the attitude of the car with the brake pedal alone. Again, this isn’t aimed at quick lap times on a track, it’s about feeling, understanding and practising the technique so it’s there for you when you need it – or at the very least, all goes into the mix for building sound educational experience for you with your car
Slip-angle theory is then introduced and this basically centres on the point whereby forward momentum overcomes the steering ability of the front wheels. Turning the wheel more has no effect once the threshold has been exceeded and this demonstrates how futile extra steering input is when the ‘optimum slip-angle’ has been exceeded. You get to feel that point through the steering wheel and how to appreciate what it’s telling you. You experience how you can increase and decrease the diameter of the constant circle you’re driving simply by adding more or less power to make bigger and smaller circles without actually turning the steering any more or less from the half lock you’re holding
The post-lunch session is a coned out circuit – start here, around that one, back to this one, through those two etc etc. Andy drives you around slowly at first, showing you the route, braking and turn-in points and so on. He then displays his talents once again by doing it at pace and making it all look very easy
He closes by saying ‘Oh by the way, it’s not as easy as it looks!’ …you don’t say?!?! Then it’s your turn to have three laps at it – which of course you spend just trying to remember which way you’re going and forgetting all your braking and turn-in markers! Then the other drivers have their turn. After this, you all have more laps at it and get to passenger with each other Walshy builds this up as ‘having a bit of fun after lunch’ - and it is… it is just fantastic. I’ve driven some good cars in a fairly spirited manner in my time – but have never done anything like that. Getting it sideways to take hairpins after inducing spin and powering through is just stunning. I’ll state again that this is of course tremendous fun, but it is all about practising, feeling and understanding car control as well as being incredibly educational both in terms of technique and finding out about yourself. (Hearing the guy with the M3 CSL making noises under G in the corners and saying “I think I’ve bought the wrong car” was rather rewarding too!
) 4pm rolled around and that was that… apart from the 5 1/2 hour trip home again in heavy traffic and torrential rain
the M4 near Bristol was more like the river Severn. After the days experience, did I feel more confident in those conditions? Well no, not really, but then again I don’t get easily scared and always have consummate respect for these cars in those conditions. Simple. (Does anyone else get those ‘Seriously guys, take it easy in the wet’ PH posts flashing through their minds in these circumstances.? I hope so) What was very, very apparent though was the feeling when I eventually hit the A and B roads nearer home of how much more ‘connected’ and ‘at one’ with the car I felt. That feeling was tremendously rewarding… I mean seriously rewarding, even though I wasn’t driving faster, I felt I was driving better. Do I now think that I can hurtle around the bends quicker and take more risks than I did before the training day? No of course not. Anyone who comes away thinking they’re now simply an even better lunatic has missed the point totally
One thing has struck me however and I make an analogy with football coaching – you can teach players correct techniques etc, but how they apply that in split second during the heat of the moment is what separates the great from the mediocre. I feel the same here – how do you know what to apply and when to do it? And in what amounts? Sometimes you may want to add more steering when in fact a little lift off the throttle would help… or even a touch on the brake etc etc. I can only surmise that practice, practice, practice is the way forward on that score – and even then, that’s only of you’re planning to hit the track and have a suitable facility / area at which to do it. Deliberately getting sideways at silly speeds on the open road is just asking for trouble – loon about all you like for sure, but don’t create a situation where you can bring innocent others into it. Despite not fully grasping an exact correlation of how it all goes together just yet, I am still in absolutely no doubt that it has helped enormously on many levels
In summary – I spent 585 miles and practically 17 hours in my car and loved every minute. The car, the trip, Walshy, the training, the experience – everything! If you’re considering it - just do it. If you haven’t thought about it yet - just do it! I’ll be looking to do another to cement all my thoughts and rehearse and develop good technique and of course activity days whereby you get to practice without the instruction (I think!) would obviously come in very useful… now, how can I get North Weald on the back of a lorry to Devon..?
I strongly recommend it to anyone and everyone
Summed it up perfectly Janitor - really pleased for you that the experience was positive.
Your final point about practise and 'thinking' about what you've learned is well made. I found that doing an activity day and a novice track day helped me to practise more and become better with the knowledge of how the car reacts with any given input.
I was out in the beast yesterday with a friend who is a very accomplished track driver and he said he's noticed the difference in my style and ability to guage what the car's doing at any given point on a drive, I put much of this down to 2 days in Mr Walsh's company, and a lot more dedicated to just driving by myself and practising the techniques he taught me at relatively low speeds on quiet roads.
I'm doing another one on Friday and can't wait
>> Edited by S Works on Monday 3rd April 11:02
Your final point about practise and 'thinking' about what you've learned is well made. I found that doing an activity day and a novice track day helped me to practise more and become better with the knowledge of how the car reacts with any given input.
I was out in the beast yesterday with a friend who is a very accomplished track driver and he said he's noticed the difference in my style and ability to guage what the car's doing at any given point on a drive, I put much of this down to 2 days in Mr Walsh's company, and a lot more dedicated to just driving by myself and practising the techniques he taught me at relatively low speeds on quiet roads.
I'm doing another one on Friday and can't wait
>> Edited by S Works on Monday 3rd April 11:02
Joe - Exige S said:Cheers Joe - you'll love it mate... once you've got past the 'are my tyres gonna last this' and 'well, I suppose my car is built for this' stages!
Fantastic post Janitor! - I'm booked in on the 27th of April so it made for a very interesting read.
Top stuff. Cya at the weekend bjc388 said:Ta
Excellent post ...
S Works said:Good, glad I got it right! Positive without question
Summed it up perfectly Janitor - really pleased for you that the experience was positive
S Works said:
I'm doing another one on Friday and can't wait
Sweet - I reckon that it's probably even better 2nd & 3rd time around because you know what's what and you're already some way along the learning curve GTRene said:Thanks Rene - I do indeed have a hard-disk in my head, life in my soul and a cucumber down my pants!
great post janitor, you must have a harddisk for brains when you keep all this in your head
Also a good story within a story?
GTRene
Glad you liked the whole story too 
Blaque said:Thanks Blackers - no worries mate
Really enjoyed your post mate!
Got the DVD the other day, and booked for the end of this month, Thanks to you I now know alittle more of what to expect!
Cheers
I had read lots of comments on the Walshy day here and there - but never seen a comprehensive detailed account of what it's all about, so I though I'd chip in You'll love the experience... enjoy!
Oh, welcome to Piston Heads by the way! (It was barely a couple of months ago that I drifted in here - now I can't leave! Great community, great people - get involved!)
TIPPER said:Cheers Tim - get it moved up ASAP! (In fact let me now when you're considering it and I may just be tempted to tag along for round two - YEAY!!)
Nice post Janitor.
Reminded me to move the Walshy Day further up the 'To do' list.
Also need to find the right roundtoit
I would add to your last comment too but have absolutely no idea what 'need to find the right roundtoit' means!
just read your post again Janitor. Is there anyone who offers a similar experiance up north? If not then for my own benefit i will have to go down to North Weald.
A friend of my brothers has just been killed in a TVR he had bought 24hrs prev.I think some people me included think that they can buy a performance car jump in and drive to the cars limit and not theirs.
I am definately going to get training asap, sorry for the morbid post but it makes you think.
Have good weekend all.
A friend of my brothers has just been killed in a TVR he had bought 24hrs prev.I think some people me included think that they can buy a performance car jump in and drive to the cars limit and not theirs.
I am definately going to get training asap, sorry for the morbid post but it makes you think.
Have good weekend all.
Cheers Ali. Post isn't morbid fella, just strikingly realistic
I don't know if there is similar further North... I would guess so, but just don't know
Definitely well worth doing even if North Weald. I've got to go again. I learnt so much but oddly enough, a few weeks later, that 'feel for the car' which you pick up on the day doesn't necessarily stay with you for very long. I'm not sure now whether I'd need to let the steering sort things out, jump on the brakes, or quite which option to automatically select in a split second should the need arise!
You learn so much, but (and I even said this straight after my day & writing the review) practice is so important. The theory stays with you, but doing the right thing at the right time is something that would need initial though, practice and absorption... then once again... and again afterwards
I don't know if there is similar further North... I would guess so, but just don't know
Definitely well worth doing even if North Weald. I've got to go again. I learnt so much but oddly enough, a few weeks later, that 'feel for the car' which you pick up on the day doesn't necessarily stay with you for very long. I'm not sure now whether I'd need to let the steering sort things out, jump on the brakes, or quite which option to automatically select in a split second should the need arise!
You learn so much, but (and I even said this straight after my day & writing the review) practice is so important. The theory stays with you, but doing the right thing at the right time is something that would need initial though, practice and absorption... then once again... and again afterwards
alimac, have a look at these guys:
www.ridedrive.co.uk/
drop them an email with your requirements and they will let you know if they are suitable.
Friend of mine recommended them; I haven't been on one yet, but am planning too.
From what I understand, they have regional representatives and places they hold training.
They do on road and off road tuition. (I don't work for them or have any interest in them whatsoever BTW!)
www.ridedrive.co.uk/
drop them an email with your requirements and they will let you know if they are suitable.
Friend of mine recommended them; I haven't been on one yet, but am planning too.
From what I understand, they have regional representatives and places they hold training.
They do on road and off road tuition. (I don't work for them or have any interest in them whatsoever BTW!)
sp60 said:
alimac, have a look at these guys:
www.ridedrive.co.uk/
drop them an email with your requirements and they will let you know if they are suitable.
Friend of mine recommended them; I haven't been on one yet, but am planning too.
From what I understand, they have regional representatives and places they hold training.
They do on road and off road tuition. (I don't work for them or have any interest in them whatsoever BTW!)
Cheers will do.
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