RE: Melling to launch £100,000 supercar
Discussion
PetrolTed said:
Always amusing watching the JR/AM debate. Both sides are always adamant that the other was at fault (and with plenty of evidence to 'demonstrate' why) and that the genius AM/JR (delete as applicable) resolved it.
Not sure us outsiders will ever know the truth.
Nor do they need to Ted other than purely for ego reasons and to be able to say "I know." Some ppl do know, they just dont go round shouting about it or regard it as their place to say much about it in public. There are, or rather have been, some obvious problems with the S6, but they have been less design related and more process/quality related and the public has been informed of them. Now whether or not the public has chosen to listen is entirely upto them.
As for Melling's engineering rep, that largely depends on who you talk to and what side of the engineering divide they fall on: the creativity and design are the most important aspects of engineering or the Does it Work? sides. One thinks he is a God, the other , er, doesnt and never the twain shall meet.
The AM/JR debate is a red herring. The fact some engines were problematic is not unique to TVR - Porsche, Mercedes, Jaguar, BMW, to name a few have all had problematic engines that 'learned' former owners warn potential owners about. All those companies will have done CONSIDERABLY more development/testing than TVR/Melling could ever do. One has to assume that all those big companies felt confident at the point they signed the engines off - I am sure TVR did too.
The difference, the CRUCIAL difference, between TVR and others is how the problems were (and are) dealt with. TVR's attitude and approach are what did the damage, not the fact that some engines broke. Some engines breaking is inevitable - ergo the Melling/Ravenscroft debate is utterly, utterly irrelevant. Melling's axe grinding was something he probably felt compelled to do given that he planned (now revealed) to make a car with his own engine - he had to say Ravenscroft ballsed up his design (rather than fix it) otherwise the Hellcat engine would be damned. JR no longer works for TVR and TVR doesn't comment. How easy was it for Melling to vent his spleen? Doddle.
It is very difficult to 'simulate' the stupidity/clumsiness/weirdness of owners in a development programme. It is equally difficult to second guess the thoroughness (or otherwise) of dealer maintenance. The vagaries of production tolerances and component variance are further contributors. The Speed Six, IMO, is a sensitive to all the above and like any 'collection of variables', if every variable is in the wrong direction, the net result is a very fragile example. Conversely, and explaining why there are perfectly good examples, all variables can lean in the right direction too: good parts, well assembled, well driven and well serviced are just fine. There simply hasn't been enough effort by TVR to control 'variances', whether they be in parts, assembly or maintenance regimes.
The difference, the CRUCIAL difference, between TVR and others is how the problems were (and are) dealt with. TVR's attitude and approach are what did the damage, not the fact that some engines broke. Some engines breaking is inevitable - ergo the Melling/Ravenscroft debate is utterly, utterly irrelevant. Melling's axe grinding was something he probably felt compelled to do given that he planned (now revealed) to make a car with his own engine - he had to say Ravenscroft ballsed up his design (rather than fix it) otherwise the Hellcat engine would be damned. JR no longer works for TVR and TVR doesn't comment. How easy was it for Melling to vent his spleen? Doddle.
It is very difficult to 'simulate' the stupidity/clumsiness/weirdness of owners in a development programme. It is equally difficult to second guess the thoroughness (or otherwise) of dealer maintenance. The vagaries of production tolerances and component variance are further contributors. The Speed Six, IMO, is a sensitive to all the above and like any 'collection of variables', if every variable is in the wrong direction, the net result is a very fragile example. Conversely, and explaining why there are perfectly good examples, all variables can lean in the right direction too: good parts, well assembled, well driven and well serviced are just fine. There simply hasn't been enough effort by TVR to control 'variances', whether they be in parts, assembly or maintenance regimes.
BossCerbera said:
The AM/JR debate is a red herring. The fact some engines were problematic is not unique to TVR - Porsche, Mercedes, Jaguar, BMW, to name a few have all had problematic engines that 'learned' former owners warn potential owners about. All those companies will have done CONSIDERABLY more development/testing than TVR/Melling could ever do. One has to assume that all those big companies felt confident at the point they signed the engines off - I am sure TVR did too.
The difference, the CRUCIAL difference, between TVR and others is how the problems were (and are) dealt with. TVR's attitude and approach are what did the damage, not the fact that some engines broke. Some engines breaking is inevitable - ergo the Melling/Ravenscroft debate is utterly, utterly irrelevant. Melling's axe grinding was something he probably felt compelled to do given that he planned (now revealed) to make a car with his own engine - he had to say Ravenscroft ballsed up his design (rather than fix it) otherwise the Hellcat engine would be damned. JR no longer works for TVR and TVR doesn't comment. How easy was it for Melling to vent his spleen? Doddle.
It is very difficult to 'simulate' the stupidity/clumsiness/weirdness of owners in a development programme. It is equally difficult to second guess the thoroughness (or otherwise) of dealer maintenance. The vagaries of production tolerances and component variance are further contributors. The Speed Six, IMO, is a sensitive to all the above and like any 'collection of variables', if every variable is in the wrong direction, the net result is a very fragile example. Conversely, and explaining why there are perfectly good examples, all variables can lean in the right direction too: good parts, well assembled, well driven and well serviced are just fine. There simply hasn't been enough effort by TVR to control 'variances', whether they be in parts, assembly or maintenance regimes.
Quite Phil. I believe you have summed up our combined posts on the subject over the past few months perfectly above. Melling and the Hellcat does dovetail up the circle rather nicely doesnt it?!
BossCerbera said:
Phil, what do you make of my post on the bottom of page three?
All the Melling blurb, IMO, is posturing. It matters not a jot that 100 cars a month can be made. It's whether or not 100 cars a month can be sold. I think "not" is the answer.
Yes, time will tell, although some respected specialists on here have posted hinting that what is going on is bigger than many on PH think (this and the 5.0 V8 engine too)... IF the US link is correct then any engines must have gone through serious durability tests unless they are to be for non street legal vehicles?
RichardD said:
All the Melling blurb, IMO, is posturing.
Yes, time will tell, although some respected specialists on here have posted hinting that what is going on is bigger than many on PH think (this and the 5.0 V8 engine too)... IF the US link is correct then any engines must have gone through serious durability tests unless they are to be for non street legal vehicles?
It's amazing the inginuity that some people will go to in order attack the culmination of someone else's lifetime's work.
JR said:
It's amazing the inginuity that some people will go to in order attack the culmination of someone else's lifetime's work.
I was just a bit 
at the sudden announcement of the US link after reading how much of a task it is to get cars / engines into the USA.... Given the number of oversized overpriced overcomplicated supercars available which have more often than not been created with what seems like unlimited funds - I'm all for men in sheds oop north conquoring the world 
You all say ole Al's stirring things up?
Like I said on page one: First testride the thingy . . . and apparently he did.
"The six-litre, 700bhp supercar, which is already being described as a British Ferrari, could make his lifelong dream come true next year when it is entered for the Le Mans 24-Hour Race."
Described by who? Anyways, with a statement like that you can't turn back. But it'll be quit nice to have some bigger pics and better stories by better (not local) media
Like I said on page one: First testride the thingy . . . and apparently he did.
"The six-litre, 700bhp supercar, which is already being described as a British Ferrari, could make his lifelong dream come true next year when it is entered for the Le Mans 24-Hour Race."
Described by who? Anyways, with a statement like that you can't turn back. But it'll be quit nice to have some bigger pics and better stories by better (not local) media
Sorry if its been posted but I could not see it on this thread.
Here is the Sky News video of the Hellcat
Here is the Sky News video of the Hellcat
scared but happy said:
Sorry if its been posted but I could not see it on this thread.
Here is the Sky News video of the Hellcat
Few pics from the video.
dinkel said:
You all say ole Al's stirring things up?
Like I said on page one: First testride the thingy . . . and apparently he did.
"The six-litre, 700bhp supercar, which is already being described as a British Ferrari, could make his lifelong dream come true next year when it is entered for the Le Mans 24-Hour Race."
Described by who? Anyways, with a statement like that you can't turn back. But it'll be quit nice to have some bigger pics and better stories by better (not local) media
I think any respected journalist will take those comments in the context of the track record of the team's staff and the quality of driver they can attract versus what the competition can do.
Compared to what Audi, Porsche and Prodrive can do I wouldn't rate anybody else's chances high, unless you were in the pits while a freak rainstorm wiped out the top runners on slicks.
Le Mans 2007? Not a cat in hell's chance. The '06 race is upon us and while the ACO has been known to bend/disregard its own rules, I can't see how the Hellcat can hope to meet the regs/criteria for next year (eg homologation, production numbers, Sebring..). Then, assuming it somehow met the rules, or got them bent in its favour, where's the time to get from first proto into a credible endurance racer (alongside production)?
On record so far: Le Mans 2007 ...0-60 in 2.8 seconds ...over 200mph ...
Long range facial weather forecast: egg approaching Rochdale...
On record so far: Le Mans 2007 ...0-60 in 2.8 seconds ...over 200mph ...
Long range facial weather forecast: egg approaching Rochdale...
I never met Melling but most people I know that met him seem to think that he talks a lot of sh1te. Anyhow, I saw his attempt at a motorbike at the national museum last week and that looked like a melted bag of spuds. The bespoke engine on the bike apparently failed after a few hundred yards and the project died shortly afterwards. I'd be suprised if this latest attempt of his does well as it also looks unresolved. He does deserve a little bit of respect for trying though.
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