Fraudulent bankers draft
Discussion
Sorry for the other thread not having any text, I'm so messed up I'm all over the place!
Desperate for any help or advice anyone can give after being given a fraudulent draft as full payment for my 53 plate M3.
A guy came up from London, foreign with the "name" Thomas Kelensen, had ID with him driving licence and address. Gave the draft to my mate who half owned the car with me. The Royal Bank of Scotland draft was taken to his local branch as he has an account at RBS and he asked them to verify the draft which they did, saying it was fine. The car went and the next working day, £25,000 creditted into the account. Thank you very much!
TWO WEEKS later, he gets a letter from the bank, saying the money has been debitted from his account as the draft was fraudulent. That was it. No advice or contact details for their fraud dept. Reported the matter to the police who, quite frankl, were poor in their response. Activated the Tracker but surprise surprise after two weeks either the unit had been ripped out or the car has gone abroad. So no car and no money, no interest from the bank and very little from the police.
Are the bank somehow liable for the fact they were asked to verify their own draft and said it was fine only for it to be found to be far from some two weeks later? Where do I go from here? (Sensible answers only please guys, I'm still a bit tender as you can imagine!!)
Cheers
Desperate for any help or advice anyone can give after being given a fraudulent draft as full payment for my 53 plate M3.
A guy came up from London, foreign with the "name" Thomas Kelensen, had ID with him driving licence and address. Gave the draft to my mate who half owned the car with me. The Royal Bank of Scotland draft was taken to his local branch as he has an account at RBS and he asked them to verify the draft which they did, saying it was fine. The car went and the next working day, £25,000 creditted into the account. Thank you very much!
TWO WEEKS later, he gets a letter from the bank, saying the money has been debitted from his account as the draft was fraudulent. That was it. No advice or contact details for their fraud dept. Reported the matter to the police who, quite frankl, were poor in their response. Activated the Tracker but surprise surprise after two weeks either the unit had been ripped out or the car has gone abroad. So no car and no money, no interest from the bank and very little from the police.
Are the bank somehow liable for the fact they were asked to verify their own draft and said it was fine only for it to be found to be far from some two weeks later? Where do I go from here? (Sensible answers only please guys, I'm still a bit tender as you can imagine!!)
Cheers
Normally no comeback on this, its quite a common scam these days. However, the bank checking it and saying it was fine is a good enough reason for you to pursue the bank. They should know a fraudulant Bankers draft after all, especially since it was thier own.
I'm afraid your car is in Russia or East Europe now.
I'm afraid your car is in Russia or East Europe now.
You need to go to the branch that checked it and talk to the person who checked it and see exatly HOW they checked it.
Did the buyer call you on a mobile? Do you have any numbers or address or anything? The actual buyer might well still be in the country. He can be tracked down that way.
Otherwise, my advice would be to advertise another BMW M3 at a similiar price. Chances are if you do it soon enough with different phone numbers, he will call again to set up another sale.
Then phone the police, or if you want your car back just meet him with some friends, but i can't condone that, cos it would be illigal
Did the buyer call you on a mobile? Do you have any numbers or address or anything? The actual buyer might well still be in the country. He can be tracked down that way.
Otherwise, my advice would be to advertise another BMW M3 at a similiar price. Chances are if you do it soon enough with different phone numbers, he will call again to set up another sale.
Then phone the police, or if you want your car back just meet him with some friends, but i can't condone that, cos it would be illigal
Make a note of the conversation at the bank when they verified the draft. If they did say it was genuine, then you have a case against them as they undertook a duty of care towards you and you, relying on them, suffered loss. You will, however, probably have to go to court, unless their lawyers see sense.
I intend to deal with the bank as if this isn't mal administration I don't know what is. The RBS have "a commitment to you" policy which outlines what they will do for customers which my legal team intend to go through. Strangely it doesn't syay anything about cocking up on this scale and then appearing not to be interested!
That ID will be being used for other fraud too, may well be worth getting in contact with the likes of Scotland Yard etc, they might be able to check out what other property or loans have been taken out in that name, these people usually try & make a fast buck with such ID.
Otherwise the only other route is to set another sale probably via someone else & try to catch them that way, it'll be the same buyer time & time again.
Obviously try the bank route.
NEVER EVER TRUST A BANK DRAFT - UNLESS YOU'VE SEEN IT WRITTEN OUT IN FRONT OF YOU AT BRANCH
>> Edited by cptsideways on Wednesday 31st May 21:39
Otherwise the only other route is to set another sale probably via someone else & try to catch them that way, it'll be the same buyer time & time again.
Obviously try the bank route.
NEVER EVER TRUST A BANK DRAFT - UNLESS YOU'VE SEEN IT WRITTEN OUT IN FRONT OF YOU AT BRANCH
>> Edited by cptsideways on Wednesday 31st May 21:39
I would pursue the bank myself;
1. They 'approved' the draft
2. It took them 2 weeks to revoke the draft.
I would put it to them you took reasonable steps to ensure the draft was valid and only acted (let the car go) after consultation with one of their paid employees. In my book that makes them culpable.
Worth an initial shot with the manager at a personal level. If that doesn’t work then it’s time for the legal eagles to extract the pound of flesh as ‘reasonable’ underpins English law.
1. They 'approved' the draft
2. It took them 2 weeks to revoke the draft.
I would put it to them you took reasonable steps to ensure the draft was valid and only acted (let the car go) after consultation with one of their paid employees. In my book that makes them culpable.
Worth an initial shot with the manager at a personal level. If that doesn’t work then it’s time for the legal eagles to extract the pound of flesh as ‘reasonable’ underpins English law.
I agree the bank accepted it so it was there mistake not yours.Get yourself a top solicitor,imho you have a really could case.
Good luck mate i hope it works out for you,might be worth putting a link to the porsche forum if you feel you need any more advice,seen lots of these type of threads there that get sorted,or on gassing station.
Good luck mate i hope it works out for you,might be worth putting a link to the porsche forum if you feel you need any more advice,seen lots of these type of threads there that get sorted,or on gassing station.
The bank are resposible. Go back to the branch & ask for an appointment to see the most senior person at the branch to discuss the situation fully. If this gets you no where ask for written details of their complaints procedure & tell them if necessary you are going to take the case to the banking ombudsman & the local /national press. Would also be worth talking to local citzens advice B.
Good luck, but dont give up it may take some time but be persistent!!
Good luck, but dont give up it may take some time but be persistent!!
The facts are remarkably similar to the seminal case of Hedley-Byrne vs Heller and Partners, the case that established that a plaintiff could recover damages for purely economic loss in tort (I sound like a law student :geek: - I was a crap one). If you can show that the bank gave you an assurance that teh draf was genuine, they will be liable, but it will require a good lawyer.
Not sure if this is going to help or make you even more mad, but i spoke to a bank over 6 months ago about cheques etc and they apparently have upto 6 months to return them!!, on a more similar note we sold an engine for £5000 on credit card this was about 6 years ago so not sure if things have changed now? but after taking the money and realesing the engine everything was fine untill 4 MONTHS LATER the bank then withdrew the money saying it was a stolen card, there was nothing the bank could do, we spoke to a solicitor and the cost to try and win against a bank was just rediculous, but we did put a claim in to our insurance company after all it was theft as the guy who bought the engine was basically stealing it and they paid out, might be worth ringing your insurance company?
banks have the right to return cheque up to 6 months after presentation, although a verifed, bankers draft may well be different. I found this out when a non paying tenant gave me a cheque for 3 months arrears rent, they let it through and a month and a half later returned it and back dated the return to the date it was presented Lloyds it was.
Love to see you take the banks down. The onus should be on them for the system to have security.
What is the way to accept payment for a private sale. I have a M3 to sell as well!
Bankers draft with you present with buyer, Cash is risky (rob you back or pass on duff notes), whats a private sale laddo to do???
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