what is "rotational steering"?
Discussion
Ahem, feeding the wheel stems from the "good old days" when a steering wheel was the size of the london eye.
The feeding thru practice was to give more leverage on the wheel as your arms would be pulling at one side while pushing with the other.
Nowadays, we have power steering which eliminates the need for this archaic practice.
Bet youd never see a certain M.Schumacher feeding the wheel under any circumstances.
It dosnt give more control, just less, because you cannot steer as quickly using that method.
Hence the high number of police driver accidents.
But thats another thread entirely....
The feeding thru practice was to give more leverage on the wheel as your arms would be pulling at one side while pushing with the other.
Nowadays, we have power steering which eliminates the need for this archaic practice.
Bet youd never see a certain M.Schumacher feeding the wheel under any circumstances.
It dosnt give more control, just less, because you cannot steer as quickly using that method.
Hence the high number of police driver accidents.
But thats another thread entirely....
I've always been told crossing arms was a bad habit. can't rememebr any specific source though. this is how I turn and what I would call "shuffling":
1. start with hands at 9 and 3 o'clock on the wheel
2. Initiate turn by placing right hand at 12 o'clock position
3. Rotate wheel 90 degrees with right hand, letting wheel slip through left hand. This places the hands back at 9 and 3 o'clock but with the wheel turned 90 degrees right.
4. Repeat to add more steering, hold for maintaining turn (fine tuning with throttle steer
), reverse procedure to unwind steering as you accelerate out of the corner.
I can see that crossing hands is potentially faster, but it seems you would have less control, especially at the traction limit, when quick but subtle adjustments may be called for.
Duncan
1. start with hands at 9 and 3 o'clock on the wheel
2. Initiate turn by placing right hand at 12 o'clock position
3. Rotate wheel 90 degrees with right hand, letting wheel slip through left hand. This places the hands back at 9 and 3 o'clock but with the wheel turned 90 degrees right.
4. Repeat to add more steering, hold for maintaining turn (fine tuning with throttle steer
), reverse procedure to unwind steering as you accelerate out of the corner. I can see that crossing hands is potentially faster, but it seems you would have less control, especially at the traction limit, when quick but subtle adjustments may be called for.
Duncan
On the limit what I generally do is cross arms for the last quarter of a turn, so I can take off at least half a turn of lock almost instantly - very important with a powerful rwd car! If I need more than a quarter turn total I may feed the wheel for the first part, but it's very rare to need more lock than that unless the car is sliding (exluding parking etc). Once things start getting sideways though I will "palm" the wheel round either way as necessary - its the only way to get the lock on/off fast enough to stay ahead of the car. Ever tried to catch a tank slapper by feeding the wheel? :thatjustaintgonnawork:
deltaf said: Ahem, feeding the wheel stems from the "good old days" when a steering wheel was the size of the london eye.
The feeding thru practice was to give more leverage on the wheel as your arms would be pulling at one side while pushing with the other.
Nowadays, we have power steering which eliminates the need for this archaic practice.
Bet youd never see a certain M.Schumacher feeding the wheel under any circumstances.
It dosnt give more control, just less, because you cannot steer as quickly using that method.
Hence the high number of police driver accidents.
But thats another thread entirely....
where did you find that out?......not doubting you just curious
Apache, there's a good summary of that stuff in the 'track day drivers guide' by Art Markus (got an Elise on the cover). Worth getting the book anyway as it has a nice introduction to how tyre traction works, actual racing lines (i.e. late apexing).
The other good book on car control is called 'Going Faster'. Forgotten the author though as its on my desk at work atm.
Anyway crossing isn't actually bad if you've been shown how to do it properly, when you get to the limit of rotation due to entanglement, you just pass one arm over. Best to practise with a bit of space though as it takes a little getting used to, especially if you are exploring slip angles at the same time.
There are two primary advantages to rotational steering :
- Much faster application/removal of lock.
- Your hands are always in the same place on the wheel (not in space a'la BSM stylee). This helps as you will always be precisely aware of which way the wheels are facing thanks to having a consistent point of reference. If you've spun a car you'll know how handy this point of referance is (only done it on an airfield personally before everyone comes down on me).
Now I'm sure there are some stunningly skilled police drivers who can work wonders with the BSM shuffle, but I would argue that they are making things harder for themselves, and for the remaining less skilled shuffle drivers, their technique is likely to suffer comparatively in this aspect of car control.
It does somewhat depend on how fast the rack of your car is, it gets a bit silly if its 10 turns lock to lock
Hi UltimaPaul, we keep meeting on this type of topic
Ah well, if anyone advocates left foot breaking on the road, I'll be the first to call them tossers >> Edited by DanH on Tuesday 28th January 00:11
Dab hand with the old steering wheel, though. Re: Rotational Steering vs "Shuffle" Steering (Feeding the wheel).
Shuffle Steering: Useful on the road. It ensures that your hands are always in such a position that you can add more lock easily and without fumbling around. If a bend tightens up and so on. Try steering around a tight roundabout without making a mess of it - if you don't feed the wheel!
Its disadvantages are that you don't have your hands in a fixed position and so do not "know" instinctively and immediately which way you are steering the car. In a skid (or slide )this could be disadvantageous...as Peter said...especially when very swift application of opposite lock is required.
Having said that the Roadcraft video has a section with a Police Driving instructor skidding around and managing just fine feeding the wheel - I don't think he's making it easy on himself.
Rotational Steering: Great on track. Partially because I have rarely come across a corner so tight that my hands crossed particularly. More experienced track drivers than me will have and no doubt dealt with it. (Peter?). So on track there is little or no disadvantage (turns aren't that tight) AND you have the (IMHO necessary) advantage of very swift steering control.
Feeding the wheel - good for the road. Rotational - good for the track.
And I know that others will feel differently - but the above works for me!
Shuffle Steering: Useful on the road. It ensures that your hands are always in such a position that you can add more lock easily and without fumbling around. If a bend tightens up and so on. Try steering around a tight roundabout without making a mess of it - if you don't feed the wheel!
Its disadvantages are that you don't have your hands in a fixed position and so do not "know" instinctively and immediately which way you are steering the car. In a skid (or slide )this could be disadvantageous...as Peter said...especially when very swift application of opposite lock is required.
Having said that the Roadcraft video has a section with a Police Driving instructor skidding around and managing just fine feeding the wheel - I don't think he's making it easy on himself.
Rotational Steering: Great on track. Partially because I have rarely come across a corner so tight that my hands crossed particularly. More experienced track drivers than me will have and no doubt dealt with it. (Peter?). So on track there is little or no disadvantage (turns aren't that tight) AND you have the (IMHO necessary) advantage of very swift steering control.
Feeding the wheel - good for the road. Rotational - good for the track.
And I know that others will feel differently - but the above works for me!
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