RE: Porsche GT1 emerges
Thursday 29th June 2006
Porsche Carrera GT: basis for the GT1Porsche looks set to produce a Bugatti Veyron-beater, according to this week's Autocar magazine. The machine will be based on the Le Mans car that Porsche has under development, but will be a road-going version. It's due in 2009.
Porsche GT1 emerges
Road-going Le Mans car due in 2009?
Porsche Carrera GT: basis for the GT1
The 950bhp car, to be called the GT1, will hit a top speed of 254mph -- that's just a shade over the Veyron's 252mph top whack. However, by the time the GT1 arrives, the game may well have moved on, since there are strong rumours of a faster Veyron under wraps. The GT1 will be based on the Carrera GT, using a modified version of its carbon fibre chassis but with a different nose and tail, plus a roof. The dashboard's said to be very similar too.
We don't yet know though where the power is to come from. It could be a modified version of the GT's V10 or a turbocharged V8 -- the engine in the Cayenne -- but bored-out to 5.5-litres.
Autocar's source was leaked official drawings of the car.
Panamera
More news on the Panamera, Porsche's four-door cruiser, also due in 2009. Sources suggest that the car will be aimed at the lucrative executive car slot -- where the BMW 5-series and E-class sit so comfortably right now.
This suggests that it could be a volume seller, as the two incumbents shift about half a million units a year into this segment. If true, expect a V8-powered Panamera to sell for around £45,000 with the potential for a down-market V6 aimed at the 530i M Sport.
Links
Discussion
Can't quite see why it will take them until 2009 to release a modified Carrera GT.
This smacks of a cheap bit of free publicity and Porsche trying to steal a bit of VW thunder - "leak" a story that is fairly nebulous but impressive and make the due date far enough away that everyone will forget in the meantime.
This smacks of a cheap bit of free publicity and Porsche trying to steal a bit of VW thunder - "leak" a story that is fairly nebulous but impressive and make the due date far enough away that everyone will forget in the meantime.
flemke said:
Andrew D said:
Apparently the Carrera GT's unit is good for 900bhp in standard trim, they just restricted the revs to avoid warranty claims and keep it driveable. So I suspect it will be NA, rather than turbo'ed.
In street version? 160 bhp/litre is asking a lot. The Carrera GT is more akin to the Merc CLK-GTR than it is the McLaren F1, it started as a race car then was modified for the road.
flemke said:
Andrew D said:
Apparently the Carrera GT's unit is good for 900bhp in standard trim, they just restricted the revs to avoid warranty claims and keep it driveable. So I suspect it will be NA, rather than turbo'ed.
In street version? 160 bhp/litre is asking a lot. Fancy the sound of one then Flemke??
Andrew D said:
flemke said:
In street version? 160 bhp/litre is asking a lot.
Well the CGT's mill is, for all intents and purposes, a race car engine. The whole car is the result of an aborted endurance racer, which was modified to produce a road car. They just knocked down the revs and made all the trimmings (induction, exhaust etc.) road legal. So it would be a fairly simple task to make one in race spec, although it would not be viable as a road car due to maintenance requirements, reliability etc. The Carrera GT is more akin to the Merc CLK-GTR than it is the McLaren F1, it started as a race car then was modified for the road.
I thought that the context of this thread was the press release about a road car that might generate 950 BHP and have a higher top speed than the Veyron's. That's why I referred to a street version with 160 bhp/litre.
For a race car, obviously that sort of output wouldn't be a problem. F1 engines produce 300 bhp/litre. Then again, they do need to be rebuilt once every five hours or so.
I'm not so sure that the CGT is more akin to the CLK GTR. Having experience in all three, I'm bound to say that, although the CGT isn't much like the F1, no road car I've ever been in is like the CLK GTR, which in road trim is absolutely dreadful. If someone gave one to you, you wouldn't use it - it's that bad.
tiga84 said:
flemke said:
Andrew D said:
Apparently the Carrera GT's unit is good for 900bhp in standard trim, they just restricted the revs to avoid warranty claims and keep it driveable. So I suspect it will be NA, rather than turbo'ed.
In street version? 160 bhp/litre is asking a lot. Fancy the sound of one then Flemke??
One would hope that it would have more charisma, individuality and sense of occasion than does the CGT, which is rather lacking in all three.
The other issue is having the time and the opportunity to make use of such a machine. It's tough enough to make proper use of a GT3 on the road; with a CGT it is that much harder still.
This hypothetical machine would increase the difficulty further, and in a few years time the roads are likely to be more crowded, with our rulers' attitudes towards driving even more hostile than they are today (hard to believe though that may be).
Much as I love certain "supercars", I'm increasingly drawn to somewhat less powerful things of which you can exploit more of the potential performance without either
- having the car destroyed by the appallingly-bad road surface, or
- causing a nationwide security alert by driving at 49 mph on what used to be an NSL.
I was referring to the development of the vehicle, not it's setup. The McLaren F1 was developed as the perfect "Supercar", and is thus a roadcar at heart. It was then further developed for racing in the manner in which many other supercars have.
The CLK-GTR, however, was an homologation special, like the 911 GT1, designed for racing and then given a tax disc (and as you describe, a nightmare on the road as a result).
The CGT is a bit of a halfway-house, as it was initially developed as a racer, then fully given over to road use. But in terms of flexibility for use as a racer, as it's underpinnings and the fundamentals of it's design were specifically intended for Le Mans, it's nearer the CLK as it's engine was initially designed for race use.
The CLK-GTR, however, was an homologation special, like the 911 GT1, designed for racing and then given a tax disc (and as you describe, a nightmare on the road as a result).
The CGT is a bit of a halfway-house, as it was initially developed as a racer, then fully given over to road use. But in terms of flexibility for use as a racer, as it's underpinnings and the fundamentals of it's design were specifically intended for Le Mans, it's nearer the CLK as it's engine was initially designed for race use.
Andrew D said:
I was referring to the development of the vehicle, not it's setup. The McLaren F1 was developed as the perfect "Supercar", and is thus a roadcar at heart. It was then further developed for racing in the manner in which many other supercars have.
The CLK-GTR, however, was an homologation special, like the 911 GT1, designed for racing and then given a tax disc (and as you describe, a nightmare on the road as a result).
The CGT is a bit of a halfway-house, as it was initially developed as a racer, then fully given over to road use. But in terms of flexibility for use as a racer, as it's underpinnings and the fundamentals of it's design were specifically intended for Le Mans, it's nearer the CLK as it's engine was initially designed for race use.
It's funny. The CLK-GTR, however, was an homologation special, like the 911 GT1, designed for racing and then given a tax disc (and as you describe, a nightmare on the road as a result).
The CGT is a bit of a halfway-house, as it was initially developed as a racer, then fully given over to road use. But in terms of flexibility for use as a racer, as it's underpinnings and the fundamentals of it's design were specifically intended for Le Mans, it's nearer the CLK as it's engine was initially designed for race use.
Both the F1 and the CGT make too many concession to being road cars, even though they may have arrived there from opposite directions.
If the CGT had been made when the F1 was, however, I suspect that it would be the less-compromised of the two.
hammerwerfer said:
flemke said:
... no road car I've ever been in is like the CLK GTR, which in road trim is absolutely dreadful. If someone gave one to you, you wouldn't use it - it's that bad.
Wanna bet?
I leave it to you to decide whether you fall into the category, Herr Werfer...
flemke said:
One would hope that it would have more charisma, individuality and sense of occasion than does the CGT, which is rather lacking in all three.
not something many people would say (in fact flemke is the (virtual) person I know how could without being laughed at)
reckon the Panamera pricing will be prove to be as accurate as the £60k V8 Vantage we were promised!
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