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drybeer

Original Poster:

883 posts

109 months

[news] 
Saturday 7th October 2006 quote quote all
Hi.

When we were in Germany (amongst other countries) last summer, we were able to fill our sadly missed 911 Carrera 3.2 with stuff called "Shell V-power".

This was miles better than Optimax, and was clearly labelled as 100 octane. Smooth, amazing acceleration, no detonation effect. I'd gladly pay for this in the UK I told my un-interested wife.

Now over the last two months I've seen here in the UK, Optimax being phazed out by a new "V-power"

My glee could hardly be contained, and I immediately went to fill the Audi S4 Avant Bi-turbo with a tank of the stuff, but sadly am a bit dissappointed.

It's labelled as (only) 99 octane!

Does anyone know if this is in any way comparable to the seemingly amazing smooth and powerful 100 octane stuff on the continent, or is it really Optimax with a halfords octane booster, or what?

I now have a 993 C2 and it (V-power) feels no different from Optimax in it either.

Please help!

Andrew Dryburgh.

Lurking Lawyer

3,758 posts

109 months

[news] 
Saturday 7th October 2006 quote quote all
Apparently Shell varies the octane rating of V Power across Europe - some markets get higher RON than others. That probably explains why it's rated as 100 RON in Germany but we get only 99 RON. So, we share the branding but not necessarily the same product.

(BTW, from what I understand, adding octane booster to Optimax isn't a good idea - they don't mix well and can cause manganese crystals to form. Not really what you want clogging up your valves!)

If it's available in your area, why not try Tesco's 99 RON fuel? It's a good 10p cheaper per litre than V Power (and you can get an extra 5p off per litre via a voucher if you spend more than £50 in store) - it topped the test conducted by one of the mags recently, getting better power output results than either Optimax or BP Ultimate.

See whether it's available near you here:

www.greenergy.com/products/99_octane_locations.html

Super_Marv

290 posts

147 months

[news] 
Sunday 8th October 2006 quote quote all
I wouldn't have thought 100RON would make any difference, seeing as the majority of 'modern' Porsche's are set to run on 98RON out of the factory. Has your 993 been chipped?

When I used 100RON V-Power in Europe last year, it didn't seem to offer anymore smoothness or power over Optimax.

Placebo perhaps?

drybeer

Original Poster:

883 posts

109 months

[news] 
Friday 20th October 2006 quote quote all
No it was definately noticeable on our Carrera 3.2 at the time - so much so I raved on about it for ages.

Sadly we are not getting this fuel over here!

I agree that most ecu modules are not mapped for 100 ron or even 99, but the knock sensor part of the system will be set to "off" all this time with a good fuel.

Oddly, the review I saw in EVO mag said that tesco 99 was good value, but BP ultimate beat both tesco 99 and Optimax for low end torque (Golf GTi turbo) and Optimax beat them all on power at higher revs.

I notice Optimax to be much better than BP on my Audi S4 Avant biturbo, and will soon compare them on the 993.

ballcock

3,829 posts

103 months

[news] 
Saturday 21st October 2006 quote quote all
Be happy!! .. When you get down to the nitty gritty of the small print , Shell V power in Ireland is a paltry 95 octane ..
yikes
But it's still about 8p/l more than 'unleaded 95' ... Feckin rippoff!!
Advertisement

flemke

19,341 posts

121 months

[news] 
Saturday 21st October 2006 quote quote all
ballcock said:
Be happy!! .. When you get down to the nitty gritty of the small print , Shell V power in Ireland is a paltry 95 octane ..
yikes
But it's still about 8p/l more than 'unleaded 95' ... Feckin rippoff!!
So is there no "super premium" octane available there?
Are you saying that you can only procure standard "premium" with 95 RON, but they call it "V Power"?

drybeer

Original Poster:

883 posts

109 months

[news] 
Monday 23rd October 2006 quote quote all
Sounds odd...

There must be some super unleaded somewhere?

willibetz

694 posts

106 months

[news] 
Monday 23rd October 2006 quote quote all
Lurking Lawyer said:
Apparently Shell varies the octane rating of V Power across Europe - some markets get higher RON than others. That probably explains why it's rated as 100 RON in Germany but we get only 99 RON. So, we share the branding but not necessarily the same product.


Precisely - it's a brand, not a specification. If you're spending lots of money having your brand shown trackside in F1, you want it to be relevant to all the viewers, wherever they're watching. The product may differ, but the name is the game.

Lurking Lawyer said:
(BTW, from what I understand, adding octane booster to Optimax isn't a good idea - they don't mix well and can cause manganese crystals to form. Not really what you want clogging up your valves!)


Have you a source for that, because it makes absolutely no sense to me.

Thanks,
WilliBetz

drybeer

Original Poster:

883 posts

109 months

[news] 
Monday 23rd October 2006 quote quote all
willibetz said:
Lurking Lawyer said:
Apparently Shell varies the octane rating of V Power across Europe - some markets get higher RON than others. That probably explains why it's rated as 100 RON in Germany but we get only 99 RON. So, we share the branding but not necessarily the same product.


Precisely - it's a brand, not a specification. If you're spending lots of money having your brand shown trackside in F1, you want it to be relevant to all the viewers, wherever they're watching. The product may differ, but the name is the game.

Lurking Lawyer said:
(BTW, from what I understand, adding octane booster to Optimax isn't a good idea - they don't mix well and can cause manganese crystals to form. Not really what you want clogging up your valves!)


Have you a source for that, because it makes absolutely no sense to me.

Thanks,
WilliBetz


There was an EVO magazine article where they compared Shell Optimax, Tesco 99, BP Ultimate unleaded together, and came to conclusion Optimax was the best all round fuel.

The next issue (sorry guys I cannot remember the issue numbers) had an interview with a Shell boffin who explained that:

Optimax is the only truly unique fuel available in the UK (whether this extands to Ulster I do not know).

The fuels in other "Super-unleadeds" can be anything - so if you buy at Asda it could be Esso, and Esso could be Shell, and BP could be Jet, and so on.

However Optimax is made from a base fuel and a unique pack of additives added before shipping, and no other petrol stations get this mix.

This also explains how Optimax (now V-power) would appear to "go off" after a while in storage in you tank...

The magazine article concluded that Optimax does not neccessarily have more Octane in it than other fuels.

But that Octane is only one ingredient in making a petrol give more performance.

The detergents to stop the accumulation of Manganese deposits and others ensure your engine runs more smoothly and cleanly, and this often otweights the Octane.

I hope this helps.

I use Shell every time unless it cannot be helped now, as otherwise you don't know what you are buying.

Andrew Dryburgh.

johnmaddox

98 posts

96 months

[news] 
Monday 23rd October 2006 quote quote all
Years ago I had problems running a Golf GTI on a low sulphur fuel that was being reported as being the best to use by all the mags.

I used it exclusively and eventually suffered from pinking and the only way to get it to run at anything like normal was to back off the advance a few degrees.Going back to other fuels did not cure it.

So I now tend to vary the make of fuel my 993 gets as a result.

egbert

449 posts

105 months

[news] 
Tuesday 24th October 2006 quote quote all
my car definitely ran better on the german 100 octane V-power. Certainly not what we are being sold here.

mtbr

328 posts

106 months

[news] 
Tuesday 24th October 2006 quote quote all
I really don't get all this "Brand loyalty" stuff.
I have just returned from a 3500 mile trip around France and Spain in my RS, where I used whatever "super" fuel the next petrol station was selling. When the tank was empty I filled it back up. I must have used 5 or 6 different 98ron fuels including Shell.

I could detect absolutely no discernable difference in the car's performance or how the engine ran, regardless of what "Brand" of petrol I used.
Perhaps small differences can be measured on a dynamometer. I don't really care, we drive our cars on roads, not dynos and most of the time at part throttle. Need more power? open the throttle wider. This applies until you are flat out everywhere. Anyone?

Shell are doing a great job of marketing a "premium" product, by playing on peoples love of their cars.
For me, the parable of the Emperors new clothes springs to mind!
If it don't knock, it's good enough.

kayc

3,426 posts

105 months

[news] 
Tuesday 24th October 2006 quote quote all
mtbr said:
I really don't get all this "Brand loyalty" stuff.
I have just returned from a 3500 mile trip around France and Spain in my RS, where I used whatever "super" fuel the next petrol station was selling. When the tank was empty I filled it back up. I must have used 5 or 6 different 98ron fuels including Shell.

I could detect absolutely no discernable difference in the car's performance or how the engine ran, regardless of what "Brand" of petrol I used.
Perhaps small differences can be measured on a dynamometer. I don't really care, we drive our cars on roads, not dynos and most of the time at part throttle. Need more power? open the throttle wider. This applies until you are flat out everywhere. Anyone?

Shell are doing a great job of marketing a "premium" product, by playing on peoples love of their cars.
For me, the parable of the Emperors new clothes springs to mind!
If it don't knock, it's good enough.
Its nothing to with brand loyalty..just what makes the car run best...it also depends what you are driving as many petrol tests have proved.Non performance engines hardly benefit from upgraded fuel at all.

Lurking Lawyer

3,758 posts

109 months

[news] 
Tuesday 24th October 2006 quote quote all
willibetz said:

Lurking Lawyer said:
(BTW, from what I understand, adding octane booster to Optimax isn't a good idea - they don't mix well and can cause manganese crystals to form. Not really what you want clogging up your valves!)


Have you a source for that, because it makes absolutely no sense to me.


Sorry, Willi - I don't.

Just something I remember seeing posted by one of the technical gurus, a guy who really knew his stuff about things like this, on the S2000 forum I moderate. He did explain it in more depth but I'm afraid the technical aspects went straight over my head.

I'll see whether I can track down the post I'm vaguely recalling and see whether I can fill in some of the gaps in the reasoning for you.

willibetz

694 posts

106 months

[news] 
Tuesday 24th October 2006 quote quote all
drybeer said:
The detergents to stop the accumulation of Manganese deposits and others ensure your engine runs more smoothly and cleanly, and this often otweights the Octane.

I hope this helps.

I use Shell every time unless it cannot be helped now, as otherwise you don't know what you are buying.


Thanks Andrew. I can understand that Shell has a unique additive package which differentiates their V-Power product in the marketplace. Other oil companies use similar techniques (eg. Tesco 99 and BP Ultimate 102), so it's not really fair to say that Shell's is the only differentiated product in the market.

It's the issue of crystalline manganese deposits that's news to me, and I'd be grateful for any more information (which Lurking Lawyer is trying to find - Thanks!)

WilliBetz

willibetz

694 posts

106 months

[news] 
Tuesday 24th October 2006 quote quote all
mtbr said:
I could detect absolutely no discernable difference in the car's performance or how the engine ran, regardless of what "Brand" of petrol I used.
Perhaps small differences can be measured on a dynamometer. I don't really care, we drive our cars on roads, not dynos and most of the time at part throttle. Need more power? open the throttle wider. This applies until you are flat out everywhere.


Fair point. But it isn't a case of using more throttle. Rather, it's trying to maximise the power you get on the occasions that you do use wide open throttle.

Using full throttle is simply an admission that you don't have as much power as you would like

WilliBetz

Lurking Lawyer

3,758 posts

109 months

[news] 
Tuesday 24th October 2006 quote quote all
willibetz said:

It's the issue of crystalline manganese deposits that's news to me, and I'd be grateful for any more information (which Lurking Lawyer is trying to find - Thanks!)



The search facility on the forum where I recall seeing it posted isn't playing ball and I can't find the post with the more detailed explanation. The only quote from the guy who mentioned this that I can find is:

Post on inter-relationship between Miller's Octane Booster and Optimax said:
Mixing Miller's octane booster with Optimax is a bad idea - the chemistry isn't compatible, causing manganese crystals to form on the spark plugs and elsewhere.


That doesn't really help a lot in clarifying precisely HOW it's said to be not compatible though banghead

willibetz

694 posts

106 months

[news] 
Tuesday 24th October 2006 quote quote all
Lurking Lawyer said:
willibetz said:

It's the issue of crystalline manganese deposits that's news to me, and I'd be grateful for any more information (which Lurking Lawyer is trying to find - Thanks!)



The search facility on the forum where I recall seeing it posted isn't playing ball and I can't find the post with the more detailed explanation. The only quote from the guy who mentioned this that I can find is:

Post on inter-relationship between Miller's Octane Booster and Optimax said:
Mixing Miller's octane booster with Optimax is a bad idea - the chemistry isn't compatible, causing manganese crystals to form on the spark plugs and elsewhere.


That doesn't really help a lot in clarifying precisely HOW it's said to be not compatible though banghead


Thanks - actually it is of some help as I recall that some Millers octane boosters contain MMT which is presumably the source of the manganese.

But the assertion about crystalline deposits seems a bit bold - it would certainly require some serious wedge to determine experimentally.

Thanks again,
WilliBetz

drybeer

Original Poster:

883 posts

109 months

[news] 
Tuesday 24th October 2006 quote quote all
willibetz said:
drybeer said:
The detergents to stop the accumulation of Manganese deposits and others ensure your engine runs more smoothly and cleanly, and this often otweights the Octane.

I hope this helps.

I use Shell every time unless it cannot be helped now, as otherwise you don't know what you are buying.


Thanks Andrew. I can understand that Shell has a unique additive package which differentiates their V-Power product in the marketplace. Other oil companies use similar techniques (eg. Tesco 99 and BP Ultimate 102), so it's not really fair to say that Shell's is the only differentiated product in the market.

It's the issue of crystalline manganese deposits that's news to me, and I'd be grateful for any more information (which Lurking Lawyer is trying to find - Thanks!)

WilliBetz


Yes appreciably other companies are marketing "high performace fuel" however if you saw the EVO article, it made clear that Optimax (now V power) is the only unique product available in the UK.

Otherwise Esso fuel can be from a BP depot and so on...

I too have no proof of manganese crystal build up...

Maybe it's the start of a scare tactic..

I would assume that octane booster products are meant to help with a tuned car where no high octane fuel is available...

Otherwise what's the use of putting octane boost in Optimax or V-power if your ecu is not mapped for 101 / 102 octane fuel! None I suspect.

Also - I tend to use WOT every day in my cars...

I don't think it makes me a bad driver, just using what I've got!

Andrew Dryburgh

brady

186 posts

104 months

[news] 
Tuesday 24th October 2006 quote quote all
flemke said:
ballcock said:
Be happy!! .. When you get down to the nitty gritty of the small print , Shell V power in Ireland is a paltry 95 octane ..
yikes
But it's still about 8p/l more than 'unleaded 95' ... Feckin rippoff!!
So is there no "super premium" octane available there?
Are you saying that you can only procure standard "premium" with 95 RON, but they call it "V Power"?


i know of 2 garages in dublin that sell super unleaded, its a load of poop
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