What hours do Investment Bankers work?
Discussion
Following on from the kerfuffle about the European Working Time Directive thread, obviously if this nonsense happened the world of High Finance would be affected. I was wondering what hours you guys working in this area actually put in. It's bth idle curiosity and a field I'd like to move into post-MBA.
I'm guessing the traders work the least as the markets close early and there's Spearmint Rhinos to attend
and the M&A guys put in the most around deal time with Research somewhere in between.
So what is the average number of hours per week worked and by whom? I'm under the impression Analysts are in the worst position it gets better for Associates and at VP level and up it's a bit more like a normal job. Is this right?
And finally how much of it is face time and how much work actually gets done?
I'm guessing the traders work the least as the markets close early and there's Spearmint Rhinos to attend
and the M&A guys put in the most around deal time with Research somewhere in between. So what is the average number of hours per week worked and by whom? I'm under the impression Analysts are in the worst position it gets better for Associates and at VP level and up it's a bit more like a normal job. Is this right?
And finally how much of it is face time and how much work actually gets done?
Traders, certainly in commodities, put in maybe 10 hour days max. Actually time really dedicated to trading can often be considerably less than this. Maybe even half as much.
You're right - analysts tend to put in the most hours. It can be 8-5, but many can work 8-8 is necessary. There are obviously occasions where they might need to work even longer than that.
You're right - analysts tend to put in the most hours. It can be 8-5, but many can work 8-8 is necessary. There are obviously occasions where they might need to work even longer than that.
quantitative analyst:- 9 to 7 (1hr break) is a normal day for me - and i have to say that's quite relaxed. sometimes i leave early, or take work home.
proper 'investment bankers' leave the office at 3am in the morning. a few years back, i worked night shift at a hedge fund & when i got into work at 1am, some people had just left work. crazy.
then again they get paid my salary (or x2, x4 ...) for their bonus!
proper 'investment bankers' leave the office at 3am in the morning. a few years back, i worked night shift at a hedge fund & when i got into work at 1am, some people had just left work. crazy.
then again they get paid my salary (or x2, x4 ...) for their bonus!
Edited by fido on Tuesday 7th November 22:07
varies dramatically depending on what you do.
Equity Sales (what I do) is normally 06:30-45 through to 17:00-30, no weekends ever (apart from the odd jolly)
Trading more like 07:00-30 through to 16:45 (again no weekends)
Research, non results day 07:30-17:30, results day 07:00- whenever you've finished calling the last of the US clients (occasional weekend when you are trying to get a note out or working on an IPO)
Corporate Finance 09:00 - all night. Used to share a house with a guy in CF, didn't see him for weeks at a time. I'd be gone before he was up and he would never be back when I went to bed. Worked every weekend. Standard finishing time was midnight - 02:00. Later if working on a pitch / deal and probably an all nighter every 2-3 weeks. Don't get me wrong, if you are exceptional, can play the political game and have lady luck on your side you can make serious (as in not have to work again) amounts of money. But you have to put your life on hold, totally. Very difficult to hold down a relationship or semblance of a social life, no going off racing at weekends. How would you react when you get called into the office on a Sunday evening and have to work through the night..
IMHO sales / trading / research are a decent compromise.
Equity Sales (what I do) is normally 06:30-45 through to 17:00-30, no weekends ever (apart from the odd jolly)
Trading more like 07:00-30 through to 16:45 (again no weekends)
Research, non results day 07:30-17:30, results day 07:00- whenever you've finished calling the last of the US clients (occasional weekend when you are trying to get a note out or working on an IPO)
Corporate Finance 09:00 - all night. Used to share a house with a guy in CF, didn't see him for weeks at a time. I'd be gone before he was up and he would never be back when I went to bed. Worked every weekend. Standard finishing time was midnight - 02:00. Later if working on a pitch / deal and probably an all nighter every 2-3 weeks. Don't get me wrong, if you are exceptional, can play the political game and have lady luck on your side you can make serious (as in not have to work again) amounts of money. But you have to put your life on hold, totally. Very difficult to hold down a relationship or semblance of a social life, no going off racing at weekends. How would you react when you get called into the office on a Sunday evening and have to work through the night..
IMHO sales / trading / research are a decent compromise.
depends on your definition of "work"...and what level you are in the company.
the young'uns are given £40k straight from uni and asked for their souls in return (all-nighters etc) but arent actually really doing "work"....writing reports for their boss yes, making lost of money....no.
after 2 years, they fire 90% of them and the ones who are promising start making money - for themselves and the company.
a simplification, but broadly true...
the young'uns are given £40k straight from uni and asked for their souls in return (all-nighters etc) but arent actually really doing "work"....writing reports for their boss yes, making lost of money....no.
after 2 years, they fire 90% of them and the ones who are promising start making money - for themselves and the company.
a simplification, but broadly true...
phib said:
There pretty good hours to be honest I thought they would have been much longer !!! Less than hedge fund traders and some management consultants !!!!
I'm doing MC work at the moment & working 8am till 10pm at the moment (just off home). That's not bad compared to due diligence work I did for a few M&A jobs when 8am - 2am very day for a few weeks was normal.
At least when things are quiet it can be a few weeks working from home & checking e-mail once a day
My GF is a Senior Settlements Anaylist for UBS. She is in the office for 0800 and leaves at 1845-1900. Most of the time she doesnt get a lunch break but she enjoys the buzz and the pressure, to some extent. Salary is OK ITRO £35K but also bonus comes around in February so thats nice
Best mate is Executive Director of RBS looking at how the markets are going to move using his Phd in Qantam Phyics, he did work crazy hours, 0600-2100 sometimes, but now he is married with a baby he is more like 0800-1800. Salary no idea but it has to be seven figures.
Best mate is Executive Director of RBS looking at how the markets are going to move using his Phd in Qantam Phyics, he did work crazy hours, 0600-2100 sometimes, but now he is married with a baby he is more like 0800-1800. Salary no idea but it has to be seven figures.
Seen in the times a couple of weeks ago,and as much as I like a lie in I know I would happily work all hours and all-nighters if I was being paid even a fraction of these guys:
Goldman’s new partners wake up to $10m surprise
By Caroline Merrell
TWO dozen wealthy London bankers woke up yesterday considerably richer as they joined the elite partnership of Goldman Sachs, Wall Street’s most profitable securities firm.
The gilded few became multimillionaires overnight. They will be eligible for a share of the bank’s record profits of $9 billion (£4.7 billion), earning them about $10 million on top of their bonuses, which are also as high as $10 million. The bank has already set aside $13.9 billion for bonuses this year.
Those joining the privileged few at the top of the firm have been responsible for some of the company’s greatest successes. They include Julian Metherell, who is currently advising Talisman Energy Resources on its £1.2 billion offer for Paladin Energy.
Another new recruit to the partnership pool is Luca Ferrari, who advised Telefonica, the Spanish telecoms firm, on its £18 billion takover of O2, the British mobile company.
Lorenzo Grabau, who advised Hellman & Friedman, the US private quity firm, on the takeover of Gartmore, the British fund manager, also made the grade as partner.
The bank has also chosen to reward those that advise on strategy. Peter Oppenheimer, who heads European portfolio strategy at the bank, was named a partner yesterday. The banking executive most recently told an investor conference that world stock markets were set to rise further.
In addition, Goldman Sachs rewarded bankers in the more obscure but lucrative areas of business. Simon Mansfield, one of London’s top traders in the debt of distressed companies, was named a partner, as was Zubin Irani, who has been partly responsible for the rapid expansion of Goldman Sachs’ property portfolio.
Mr Irani has been responsible for lending nearly £7 billion in the first nine months of the year to back the purchase of commercial real estate.
Lucas van Praag, a former partner at the City public relations firm Brunswick, who is now Goldman Sachs’ top PR man in London, also made the grade. Elsewhere in the world, Mark Florian, the firm’s top infrastructure banker, was named a partner, as was Martin Werner, a banker based in Latin America who was formerly the Deputy Finance Minister of Mexico.
Lloyd Blankfein, who succeeded Hank Paulson as Goldman Sachs chief executive earlthis year, said: “We congratulate all of those selected and wish them continued success in their careers. These decisions are extremely difficult and we would like to acknowledge the contributions of those who were not selected this year. We are confident that many of them will be selected in the future.”
Partners are named every two years, and the number reflects the financial success of the firm. The 115 named yesterday eclipsed the 114 named in 2000, when world stock markets were reaching a peak. There are now more than 400 partners.
Bonus bonanza for bankers
Goldman has set aside $13.9 billion (£7.3 billion) for bonuses for all its staff
Last year Goldman partners were paid more than $2 billion in bonuses, an average of $7 million
This year they could earn $10 million each
There are more than 400 partners at Goldman
Just 12 of the 115 new partners announced yesterday are women; 32 of the new partners are investment bankers
The value of bonuses paid to high-flying staff in financial services, mainly in the City, is about £10 billion this year, sharply up from last year
The rise is helping to stoke a house price boom in London, pushing the cost of a home in the capital up far more sharply than elsewhere, according to the National Institute of Economic and Social Research
$20 million dollars, that's one lucky dozen!
I suspect this would be motivation to work all hours you can for anyone on here!
-
Stuart
Times said:
Goldman’s new partners wake up to $10m surprise
By Caroline Merrell
TWO dozen wealthy London bankers woke up yesterday considerably richer as they joined the elite partnership of Goldman Sachs, Wall Street’s most profitable securities firm.
The gilded few became multimillionaires overnight. They will be eligible for a share of the bank’s record profits of $9 billion (£4.7 billion), earning them about $10 million on top of their bonuses, which are also as high as $10 million. The bank has already set aside $13.9 billion for bonuses this year.
Those joining the privileged few at the top of the firm have been responsible for some of the company’s greatest successes. They include Julian Metherell, who is currently advising Talisman Energy Resources on its £1.2 billion offer for Paladin Energy.
Another new recruit to the partnership pool is Luca Ferrari, who advised Telefonica, the Spanish telecoms firm, on its £18 billion takover of O2, the British mobile company.
Lorenzo Grabau, who advised Hellman & Friedman, the US private quity firm, on the takeover of Gartmore, the British fund manager, also made the grade as partner.
The bank has also chosen to reward those that advise on strategy. Peter Oppenheimer, who heads European portfolio strategy at the bank, was named a partner yesterday. The banking executive most recently told an investor conference that world stock markets were set to rise further.
In addition, Goldman Sachs rewarded bankers in the more obscure but lucrative areas of business. Simon Mansfield, one of London’s top traders in the debt of distressed companies, was named a partner, as was Zubin Irani, who has been partly responsible for the rapid expansion of Goldman Sachs’ property portfolio.
Mr Irani has been responsible for lending nearly £7 billion in the first nine months of the year to back the purchase of commercial real estate.
Lucas van Praag, a former partner at the City public relations firm Brunswick, who is now Goldman Sachs’ top PR man in London, also made the grade. Elsewhere in the world, Mark Florian, the firm’s top infrastructure banker, was named a partner, as was Martin Werner, a banker based in Latin America who was formerly the Deputy Finance Minister of Mexico.
Lloyd Blankfein, who succeeded Hank Paulson as Goldman Sachs chief executive earlthis year, said: “We congratulate all of those selected and wish them continued success in their careers. These decisions are extremely difficult and we would like to acknowledge the contributions of those who were not selected this year. We are confident that many of them will be selected in the future.”
Partners are named every two years, and the number reflects the financial success of the firm. The 115 named yesterday eclipsed the 114 named in 2000, when world stock markets were reaching a peak. There are now more than 400 partners.
Bonus bonanza for bankers
Goldman has set aside $13.9 billion (£7.3 billion) for bonuses for all its staff
Last year Goldman partners were paid more than $2 billion in bonuses, an average of $7 million
This year they could earn $10 million each
There are more than 400 partners at Goldman
Just 12 of the 115 new partners announced yesterday are women; 32 of the new partners are investment bankers
The value of bonuses paid to high-flying staff in financial services, mainly in the City, is about £10 billion this year, sharply up from last year
The rise is helping to stoke a house price boom in London, pushing the cost of a home in the capital up far more sharply than elsewhere, according to the National Institute of Economic and Social Research
$20 million dollars, that's one lucky dozen!
I suspect this would be motivation to work all hours you can for anyone on here!
-
Stuart
If you get high up an organisation it is usually a function of several factors:
1) You tend to be reasonably competent in the eyes of the boss.
2) You are politically savvy, and flexible in your viewpoint.
3) You are highly driven and will work long hours.
The bottom line is that if you work for an organisation that works a notional 40 hour week, if you are the sort of person cut out to succeed then you will want to do 50, 60 hours or more. That's not because you are forced to, it's that you want to.
One of the reasons that Investment Bankers get paid a lot is because they deliver financial results to their clients. Every day is a fight for survival, and every other person in the office wants to out perform you to make sure that it a cut happens, the lowest performers get redundancy.
I think the bottom line is this, if you want an easy life, Investment Banking would not be for you.
1) You tend to be reasonably competent in the eyes of the boss.
2) You are politically savvy, and flexible in your viewpoint.
3) You are highly driven and will work long hours.
The bottom line is that if you work for an organisation that works a notional 40 hour week, if you are the sort of person cut out to succeed then you will want to do 50, 60 hours or more. That's not because you are forced to, it's that you want to.
One of the reasons that Investment Bankers get paid a lot is because they deliver financial results to their clients. Every day is a fight for survival, and every other person in the office wants to out perform you to make sure that it a cut happens, the lowest performers get redundancy.
I think the bottom line is this, if you want an easy life, Investment Banking would not be for you.
Singaporean chap I know is a broker or something or other for Goldman Sachs in London, and has been for about a decade now.
His basic runs well into six figures, and his annual bonuses can run into multiples of his basic. Basically, he is a very wealthy chap, but he doesn't have a lot of time to spend his money. He drives a company BMW and gets allowances for many things, so much so that much of his disposable income remains festering in his bank account.
But he doesn't have much of a life. Virtually on call 24/7, with mad hours at certain times of the year. On one occasion at a family dinner out of town, he was called and told that he had to be on the next flight out to Indonesia. He said his goodbyes and apologies, and six hours later he was on a plane.
It's a mad existence. He tells me that his top-earning colleagues burn out at around 40 and either go into retirement or take up a less-demanding role.
His basic runs well into six figures, and his annual bonuses can run into multiples of his basic. Basically, he is a very wealthy chap, but he doesn't have a lot of time to spend his money. He drives a company BMW and gets allowances for many things, so much so that much of his disposable income remains festering in his bank account.
But he doesn't have much of a life. Virtually on call 24/7, with mad hours at certain times of the year. On one occasion at a family dinner out of town, he was called and told that he had to be on the next flight out to Indonesia. He said his goodbyes and apologies, and six hours later he was on a plane.
It's a mad existence. He tells me that his top-earning colleagues burn out at around 40 and either go into retirement or take up a less-demanding role.
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