Inside a Camera Van
Discussion
This morning whilst at work, I was driving down a section of 40mph limit dual carriageway which has recently had two Gatso speed
Cameras installed, one in either direction now insitu for about 3 months. 400 meters past one of the Gatso Cameras was a Safety partnership camera van. It was clearly visible from well before the Gatso site if you were looking ahead far enough and the rear of the van was painted in the yellow and orange chevrons that adorn marked Police vehicles.
I decided to stop and ask questions of the operator in the back of the van. He was a civilian employee and was very forthcoming with information. It was raining hard at the time and the traffic was reasonably busy.
The camera itself was attached to an LTI20/20 laser device. The camera is connected to a VHS video recorder which is recording continually, all traffic going past the rear of the van. The operator although civilian was alone and no Police officer was present, apart from me.
I asked the following questions.
"I understood that only a Police officer has the capability of assessing speed and having it corroborated by a second device."
Reply "I think that has recently changed to allow civilians to take on the work alone"
"What is the threshold that you are told to put into the device where tickets are then issued."
Reply "10% plus 4mph, which takes it to 48mph for a ticket"
"Can the laser be interupted by other technology around, i.e. electrical disturbance or laser jammers in cars?"
reply " If the laser fails to lock on, then I release the trigger and fire it again until I get a reading. There are 9 error codes which come up on the system if it fails to lock on, I have never had one tell me its been jammed."
"How far away can you capture the offending vehicle?"
Reply " It depends on the lens fitted to the camera. The one I am using today is a 30mm lens and will record the registration number at about 250 to 300 meters. A 50mm lens will capture at over 500 to 800 meters. We also have a device to cut out glare caused by someone having their headlamps on full beam."
" How long have you been here this morning and how many have you captured?"
reply, "I have been here for about 1 1/2 hours and have activated the laser 130 times. Over that period I imagine I will have recorded about 80 vehicles exceeding the threshold speed. I am surprised myself as I was here yesterday at the same time and captured about the same number, why do people not learn?"
Whilst I was sat in the van for about 20 minutes or so, I witnessed several vehicles not only activate the Gatso camera behind the van, some of speed in excess of 60mph but fail to reduce speed on passing the Camera van.
The camera was being activated from within the van with the doors shut, the small rear window on one of the rear doors was hinged at the bottom and dropped backwards into the van, allowing the laser and camera lens unobstructed view to its target.
The laser had to be targetted on individual cars which appeared to be travelling too fast and the vehicle concerned individually shot by the operator. The video machine was capable of printing out an instant still photgraph taken from the videotape as the laser was activated.
Vehicles travelling in the opposite direction were also in the frame of the laser target and were captured travelling away from the camera van. The speed on the photo was preceded by a minus sign to signify it was a shot up the backside.
Motorcyles were not devoid of attention. When two operators are in the van, if a motor cycle is captured approaching the camera van from behind it, the second operator records the registration as it passes and writes out a statement form as notes at the time of the offending registration number. Motorcycles travelling on the opposite carriageway were captured as easily as other vehicles.
There is no policy in this force of sitting on top of motorway bridges to capture traffic on the motorway carriageway. During the lighter evenings this summer, with the use of the device to reduce glare from headlights, the vans will be used into the late evening and not just until 1800.
To be honest, I was astounded at the number of vehicles that came through this camera site, not only the mobile one but many activating the Gatso 400 meters prior to the camera van at well in excess of the limit. This area is well publicised for being a prime spot for enforcement, not only from the camera van but also by Traffic Police officers with hand held laser devices at all times of the day and night.
It has also been the venue for several fatalities and lots of serious injury accidents.
My conclusions were that many of the people captured on the camera in the time I was in the van were probably local traffic knowing about the dangers of the road and its speed (van) hazards. It was raining hard and visibility was reasonable but not good (good enough for me to see the van before I passed the Gatso camera 400 meters away)
Most of those caught this morning by that van must have been driving with their thumbs up their ar5e (especailly those that were captured by the Gatso prior to the camera van
).
What does it take to get people to understand that if they continue to exceed the limits in areas that are regular and well publicised speed enforcement areas, they will be processed and £60 or more removed from their wallets?
Sheep? Baaaaaaaaaaaa
For the information of Toad-oftoadhall, the two offences are looked upon as one in this force. In fact the operator told me that he had placed a dummy unit in the Gatso so that it appeared to capture drivers but no camera was installed, only the flash.
>>> Edited by madcop on Wednesday 4th June 20:03
Cameras installed, one in either direction now insitu for about 3 months. 400 meters past one of the Gatso Cameras was a Safety partnership camera van. It was clearly visible from well before the Gatso site if you were looking ahead far enough and the rear of the van was painted in the yellow and orange chevrons that adorn marked Police vehicles.
I decided to stop and ask questions of the operator in the back of the van. He was a civilian employee and was very forthcoming with information. It was raining hard at the time and the traffic was reasonably busy.
The camera itself was attached to an LTI20/20 laser device. The camera is connected to a VHS video recorder which is recording continually, all traffic going past the rear of the van. The operator although civilian was alone and no Police officer was present, apart from me.
I asked the following questions.
"I understood that only a Police officer has the capability of assessing speed and having it corroborated by a second device."
Reply "I think that has recently changed to allow civilians to take on the work alone"
"What is the threshold that you are told to put into the device where tickets are then issued."
Reply "10% plus 4mph, which takes it to 48mph for a ticket"
"Can the laser be interupted by other technology around, i.e. electrical disturbance or laser jammers in cars?"
reply " If the laser fails to lock on, then I release the trigger and fire it again until I get a reading. There are 9 error codes which come up on the system if it fails to lock on, I have never had one tell me its been jammed."
"How far away can you capture the offending vehicle?"
Reply " It depends on the lens fitted to the camera. The one I am using today is a 30mm lens and will record the registration number at about 250 to 300 meters. A 50mm lens will capture at over 500 to 800 meters. We also have a device to cut out glare caused by someone having their headlamps on full beam."
" How long have you been here this morning and how many have you captured?"
reply, "I have been here for about 1 1/2 hours and have activated the laser 130 times. Over that period I imagine I will have recorded about 80 vehicles exceeding the threshold speed. I am surprised myself as I was here yesterday at the same time and captured about the same number, why do people not learn?"
Whilst I was sat in the van for about 20 minutes or so, I witnessed several vehicles not only activate the Gatso camera behind the van, some of speed in excess of 60mph but fail to reduce speed on passing the Camera van.
The camera was being activated from within the van with the doors shut, the small rear window on one of the rear doors was hinged at the bottom and dropped backwards into the van, allowing the laser and camera lens unobstructed view to its target.
The laser had to be targetted on individual cars which appeared to be travelling too fast and the vehicle concerned individually shot by the operator. The video machine was capable of printing out an instant still photgraph taken from the videotape as the laser was activated.
Vehicles travelling in the opposite direction were also in the frame of the laser target and were captured travelling away from the camera van. The speed on the photo was preceded by a minus sign to signify it was a shot up the backside.
Motorcyles were not devoid of attention. When two operators are in the van, if a motor cycle is captured approaching the camera van from behind it, the second operator records the registration as it passes and writes out a statement form as notes at the time of the offending registration number. Motorcycles travelling on the opposite carriageway were captured as easily as other vehicles.
There is no policy in this force of sitting on top of motorway bridges to capture traffic on the motorway carriageway. During the lighter evenings this summer, with the use of the device to reduce glare from headlights, the vans will be used into the late evening and not just until 1800.
To be honest, I was astounded at the number of vehicles that came through this camera site, not only the mobile one but many activating the Gatso 400 meters prior to the camera van at well in excess of the limit. This area is well publicised for being a prime spot for enforcement, not only from the camera van but also by Traffic Police officers with hand held laser devices at all times of the day and night.
It has also been the venue for several fatalities and lots of serious injury accidents.
My conclusions were that many of the people captured on the camera in the time I was in the van were probably local traffic knowing about the dangers of the road and its speed (van) hazards. It was raining hard and visibility was reasonable but not good (good enough for me to see the van before I passed the Gatso camera 400 meters away)
Most of those caught this morning by that van must have been driving with their thumbs up their ar5e (especailly those that were captured by the Gatso prior to the camera van
). What does it take to get people to understand that if they continue to exceed the limits in areas that are regular and well publicised speed enforcement areas, they will be processed and £60 or more removed from their wallets?
Sheep? Baaaaaaaaaaaa
For the information of Toad-oftoadhall, the two offences are looked upon as one in this force. In fact the operator told me that he had placed a dummy unit in the Gatso so that it appeared to capture drivers but no camera was installed, only the flash.
>>> Edited by madcop on Wednesday 4th June 20:03
Motorcyles were not devoid of attention. When two operators are in the van, if a motor cycle is captured approaching the camera van from behind it, the second operator records the registration as it passes and writes out a statement form as notes at the time of the offending registration number. Motorcycles travelling on the opposite carriageway were captured as easily as other vehicles.
Interesting so there has to be 2 people in teh van to get me on my bike when I'M aproaching a van.
not sure I like the idea of civilians operating these things
Excellent info Madcop, thanks for taking the time to share it with us.
My frustration would be that a lot of the people getting caught by the Scamera shouldn't be on the road at all, if their powers of observation are anything to go by. Let's look at the evidence:
1. They don't spot the speed camera. It is (probably) bright yellow.
2. They don't spot the Talivan. It is big and white with large luminous chevrons on the back.
3. The speed camera flashes and they still aren't woken up.
This just supports the belief held be so many of us that the problem is not speed, it is inappropriate use of speed, and it is that people who should not be on the road are driving merrily around, completely unaware of their surroundings AND speeding.
These people probably have their car keys in one hand, their house keys in the other, and a ruddy great piece of elastic going between the two via their coat sleeves.
My frustration would be that a lot of the people getting caught by the Scamera shouldn't be on the road at all, if their powers of observation are anything to go by. Let's look at the evidence:
1. They don't spot the speed camera. It is (probably) bright yellow.
2. They don't spot the Talivan. It is big and white with large luminous chevrons on the back.
3. The speed camera flashes and they still aren't woken up.
This just supports the belief held be so many of us that the problem is not speed, it is inappropriate use of speed, and it is that people who should not be on the road are driving merrily around, completely unaware of their surroundings AND speeding.
These people probably have their car keys in one hand, their house keys in the other, and a ruddy great piece of elastic going between the two via their coat sleeves.
miniman said: Excellent info Madcop, thanks for taking the time to share it with us.
My frustration would be that a lot of the people getting caught by the Scamera shouldn't be on the road at all, if their powers of observation are anything to go by. Let's look at the evidence:
1. They don't spot the speed camera. It is (probably) bright yellow.
2. They don't spot the Talivan. It is big and white with large luminous chevrons on the back.
3. The speed camera flashes and they still aren't woken up.
This just supports the belief held be so many of us that the problem is not speed, it is inappropriate use of speed, and it is that people who should not be on the road are driving merrily around, completely unaware of their surroundings AND speeding.
These people probably have their car keys in one hand, their house keys in the other, and a ruddy great piece of elastic going between the two via their coat sleeves.
and to MCVery interesting Madcop.
Had to laugh though as didnt read who had made the initial post (ie you!) and was amazed how forthcoming a civilian scamera operator was to a member of the public pulling up and asking questions.
Then you got to the bit about sitting in the van and I thought hang on this is getting a bit far fetched, so looked at who posted it and suddenly it all became clear.
Heaven help me spotting any scamera vans if I cant even spot who has made a post! Think my eyes must need testing!
Had to laugh though as didnt read who had made the initial post (ie you!) and was amazed how forthcoming a civilian scamera operator was to a member of the public pulling up and asking questions.
Then you got to the bit about sitting in the van and I thought hang on this is getting a bit far fetched, so looked at who posted it and suddenly it all became clear.
Heaven help me spotting any scamera vans if I cant even spot who has made a post! Think my eyes must need testing!
miniman said: This just supports the belief held be so many of us that the problem is not speed, it is inappropriate use of speed, and it is that people who should not be on the road are driving merrily around, completely unaware of their surroundings AND speeding.
Well they can only spot these things if they have their eyes open.........
sorry, but I disagree.
Mark.S said:Have to agree with yourself and Miniman - if the idiots getting caught couldn't see the brightly painted van, they deserve every point totted and every pound extracted from their pockets!
Putting MadCop's immediate scenario aside for a moment...
The 50mm lens has a range of 500-800mtrs. I don't care who you are and what training you've had, how the fark are you supposed to spot the thing at that sort of distance. I think even 400mtrs is pushing it unless the road in front of you is clear of cars and other hazards, allowing you to gaze upon the middle distance rather than background processing it as you attend to more immediate potential hazards. Particularly drawing your focus to the gatso which is closer, so the talivan becomes 'descoped'. It is, after all, absurd to suggest that one focuses primarily on hazards 400yds up the road when doing 40-50mph.
Some rough (and probably decidedly dodgy) calcs..
The threshold for a ticket is 48mph on that road. At that speed it takes approx 18 seconds to cover 400 metres. The highway code (ie ancient) stopping distance at 50mph is 175ft (54 metres).
So you can see the road to be clear for much further ahead than the distance required to potentially stop and still you could have been caught by a van more than 400m away???? It's insane!!
I do hope you can be still be so smug when they get you.
Extremely interesting post from MadCop. Most informative. The day will come when you'll be able to arrest him for breach of the peace and incitement to riot, though. Have faith.
>> Edited by CarZee (moderator) on Wednesday 4th June 23:21
Interesting so there has to be 2 people in teh van to get me on my bike when I'M aproaching a van.
not sure I like the idea of civilians operating these things
Either that or you stop before passing and push the bike backwards away from the van!
I don't like the idea of anyone operating these things
CarZee said:
He said the 50mm lens has a range of 500-800mtrs. I don't care who you are and what training you've had, how the fark are you supposed to spot the thing at that sort of distance. I think even 400mtrs is pushing it unless the road in front of you is clear of cars and other hazards, allowing you to gaze upon the middle distance rather than background processing it as you attend to more immediate dangers.
Carzee, we need to get together and polish the condensation from your glasses
I saw it well in advance as I was looking as far up the road as I could. The road has a very slight left hand curve but visibility is possible for well in advance of the camera vans position.
Seriously though, there are not many places that a camera van could site itself on the side of a dual carriageway or single laned road and capture at 800 meters. This would normally be used on bridges over dual carriageways or motorways and would be positioned out of one of the side windows, not allowing the observation of the chevrons to be seen.
The majority of those that I saw captured this morning were done so at between 150 and 200 meters from the van. If you cannot see it before then and realise what is happeneing, then maybe an eyesight test is appropriate with the NIP
Thanks, MC, that was very interesting.
"It was raining hard and visibility was reasonable but not good (good enough for me to see the van before I passed the Gatso camera 400 meters away)"
Did you see the photos? Is the quality good in poor visibility?
Same question for the long lens?
"It was raining hard and visibility was reasonable but not good (good enough for me to see the van before I passed the Gatso camera 400 meters away)"
Did you see the photos? Is the quality good in poor visibility?
Same question for the long lens?
madcop said: Carzee, we need to get together and polish the condensation from your glasses
.. oh.. 
You had me worried there for a minute, mate
Errmm.. yeah - I guess seeing is believing. I still think these bastard devices, particularly in the talivan outer shell, will be the final undoing of society and they should be stopped immediately. It's just not fair game.
I'm sure I don't need to spew forth the whole policing by consent and laws for the common good thing. You know the deal.
>> Edited by CarZee (moderator) on Wednesday 4th June 23:29
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff