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namgaj

Original Poster:

3 posts

77 months

[news] 
Thursday 22nd November 2007 quote quote all
I know that there has been some debate on the oil additive subject.
I carried out a simple test recently and added some to the engine oil when running. There was an instant increase in rev's presumably due to reduced friction.

After this submitted car to a 1000 mile "test" (usual driving conditions over a 3 week period). It recorded 32.5 miles per gallon. (its a 4x4 diesel on semi synthetic oil) when in the past it had always returned around 29.4

I dont know why the oil companies dont include this stuff in the oil themselves but at this time it does seem to work.

Parrot of Doom

23,075 posts

114 months

[news] 
Thursday 22nd November 2007 quote quote all
Or you could just put the correct grade oil in your car to begin with. Or is this an advertisement?

Globulator

13,131 posts

111 months

[news] 
Thursday 22nd November 2007 quote quote all
namgaj said:
There was an instant increase in rev's presumably due to reduced friction.
Probably due to the crank-case breather when you took the oil cap off.
Regardless of cause however the idle control should work to prevent fluctuating idle however - so you may have a fault.

namgaj said:
I dont know why the oil companies dont include this stuff in the oil themselves
Because engine oil simply doesn't need additional additives. Engine oil already has an additive pack - created by brilliant, well paid people in big labs. The most likely result of a foreign additive is to screw that up so it can't work properly any more - by unbalancing their careful work.

Or are you claiming that oil companies are no good at making oil?

namgaj said:
but at this time it does seem to work.
There is no evidence for this - you yourself admit that in your post. Wishful thinking of the money spent I fear.

(Edited for quoting)

Edited by Globulator on Thursday 22 November 18:52

waxaholic

291 posts

79 months

[news] 
Thursday 22nd November 2007 quote quote all
that what i would call shot down in flames.having an opinion on the net leaves you open to it.

Mars

7,123 posts

94 months

[news] 
Thursday 22nd November 2007 quote quote all
Slick 50 used to be the brand of choice for this but someone posted a comprehensive put-down of it one one of the forums somewhere.

Wouldn't think of degrading my Mobil 1 by any such crap.
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redgriff500

9,065 posts

143 months

[news] 
Thursday 22nd November 2007 quote quote all
I've certainly used Molyslip in noisy diffs etc and it works a treat.

I'd suggest whilst a newer car with little wear doesn't gain any benefit from additives, older ones frequently can.

aw51 121565

3,658 posts

113 months

[news] 
Friday 23rd November 2007 quote quote all
I've used Molyslip in an old Mini, and the car ran better for it - but I was on the dole then and bought cheap motor factor branded oil.

Nowadays I can get semi-synthetic 10w/40 labelled as being made by a world class manufacturer for under a tenner a gallon (with inflation, a lot cheaper than the motor factor branded stuff just on its own), which I use in a carburettor-equipped, 39,000 miles 1980s family saloon. I see no need for the molyslip now...

Jaguar steve

3,142 posts

90 months

[news] 
Friday 23rd November 2007 quote quote all
redgriff500 said:
I've certainly used Molyslip in noisy diffs etc and it works a treat.

I'd suggest whilst a newer car with little wear doesn't gain any benefit from additives, older ones frequently can.
That's the only time I'd consider using it. If the diff is noisy, then there's nothing to loose by trying some. A more effective route 'tho is to change from a typical EP 90 viscosity oil to a EP 140.

This goes against all conventional wisdom about staying within manufacturers guidelines, increases drag and would probrably increase fuel consumption too, but it works. I put Penrite EP140 in a car with a slightly noisy (not kanckered mind) diff and got an improvement in noise level.


rallycross

5,478 posts

117 months

[news] 
Friday 23rd November 2007 quote quote all
great stuff for quietening a worn/rummbly engine
not sure I'd use it for anything else though.

dern

13,055 posts

159 months

[news] 
Friday 23rd November 2007 quote quote all
Mars said:
Slick 50 used to be the brand of choice for this but someone posted a comprehensive put-down of it one one of the forums somewhere.
From memory it bunged up the filter and I imagine molyslip will do the same.

RobM77

24,781 posts

114 months

[news] 
Friday 23rd November 2007 quote quote all
scratchchin I think if this really worked properly then oil companies would be doing something similar themselves!! People like Mobil and Shell spend millions of pounds developing their oils in high tech labs; what on earth makes anyone think that simply adding an off the shelf product to their oil is going to improve it? Your money would be better spent buying a better oil in the first place.

Vesuvius 996

32,881 posts

151 months

[news] 
Friday 23rd November 2007 quote quote all
Be VERY interested to hear from Opie Oil Man on this.

I used Slick50 in a Mini years ago. It ran VERY quiet and smooth afterwards.

That said, I use OW40 Mobil 1 now in the Porsche, and I reckon that the Mobil boffins know what they're doing, so I wouldn't risk it now.


RobM77

24,781 posts

114 months

[news] 
Friday 23rd November 2007 quote quote all
Vesuvius 996 said:
Be VERY interested to hear from Opie Oil Man on this.

I used Slick50 in a Mini years ago. It ran VERY quiet and smooth afterwards.

That said, I use OW40 Mobil 1 now in the Porsche, and I reckon that the Mobil boffins know what they're doing, so I wouldn't risk it now.
For your Mini, what oil did you use in it? I expect Slick 50 would work well with a fairly cheap oil. I'd doubt that one could improve on Mobil 1 though.

Vesuvius 996

32,881 posts

151 months

[news] 
Friday 23rd November 2007 quote quote all
RobM77 said:
Vesuvius 996 said:
Be VERY interested to hear from Opie Oil Man on this.

I used Slick50 in a Mini years ago. It ran VERY quiet and smooth afterwards.

That said, I use OW40 Mobil 1 now in the Porsche, and I reckon that the Mobil boffins know what they're doing, so I wouldn't risk it now.
For your Mini, what oil did you use in it? I expect Slick 50 would work well with a fairly cheap oil. I'd doubt that one could improve on Mobil 1 though.
This is going back 20 years when I had an 85 Mini ritz!!

I used Castrol GTX ("liquid engineering....." ) hehe


GreenV8S

23,471 posts

164 months

[news] 
Friday 23rd November 2007 quote quote all
RobM77 said:
I expect Slick 50 would work well with a fairly cheap oil.
I wouldn't expect it to work at all with any oil - the way it is claimed to work by coating bearing surfaces with a non-stick layer is not feasible. All it will do is block the filter, hopefully the filter will take it out before it blocks the oil ways.

opieoilman

3,047 posts

116 months

[news] 
Friday 23rd November 2007 quote quote all
Molyslip is a chlorinated additive, here are some of the benefits of using it in your engine wink

General Remarks on Chlorinated Additives.

A number of ‘add-on’ additives intended to improve the performance of commercially available automotive lubricants have been marketed in recent years, under such names as ‘Xxtralube ZX-1’, ‘Metol FX-1’, ‘PPL Anti-Friction’ and ‘Activ-8’.All such products share the following characteristics with ‘X-1R Friction Eliminator’:-

1) They all contain chlorinated paraffin ‘exteme pressure’(EP) compounds first used in the 1930s in heavily-loaded industrial gearboxes, and in some automotive transmission applications, mainly hypoid gears.

2) They all corrode copper-based alloys at moderate temperatures, easily exceeded in all engine, and most transmission applications.This problem was recognised in the 1930s, and chlorinated compounds were never used in transmissions with bronze bearings or gears. No responsible manufacturer ever suggested using them in engines where their increasing activity at high temperatures could lead to piston ring corrosion and bore glazing. (For the same reason, modern ‘hypoid’ additives are not used in engines, even though they are much safer than any chlorinated additive.)

3) X-1R Friction Eliminator and its clones are based upon very outdated technology, which was abandoned by responsible lubricant manufacturers for automotive transmission uses in the 1950s. Chlorinated compounds still find applications in metal working, but their use is on the decline because of health and safety considerations.

4) When burnt, chlorinated paraffins produce corrosive hydrochloric acid, and organo-chlorine compounds including the highly poisonous phosgene gas. Apart from these corrosion and health hazards, with petrol engines the deactivation of exhaust catalysts is also a problem.

5) Unfortunately, these additives give spectacular results in simple EP test machines such as the ‘Falex’. As a marketing ploy, a demonstration of this type looks impressive to those not aquainted with the above facts. Also attractive is the low cost of chlorinated compounds, allowing profits of several thousand percent to be made.

Cheers

Guy.

Vesuvius 996

32,881 posts

151 months

[news] 
Friday 23rd November 2007 quote quote all
opieoilman said:
Molyslip is a chlorinated additive, here are some of the benefits of using it in your engine wink

General Remarks on Chlorinated Additives.

A number of ‘add-on’ additives intended to improve the performance of commercially available automotive lubricants have been marketed in recent years, under such names as ‘Xxtralube ZX-1’, ‘Metol FX-1’, ‘PPL Anti-Friction’ and ‘Activ-8’.All such products share the following characteristics with ‘X-1R Friction Eliminator’:-

1) They all contain chlorinated paraffin ‘exteme pressure’(EP) compounds first used in the 1930s in heavily-loaded industrial gearboxes, and in some automotive transmission applications, mainly hypoid gears.

2) They all corrode copper-based alloys at moderate temperatures, easily exceeded in all engine, and most transmission applications.This problem was recognised in the 1930s, and chlorinated compounds were never used in transmissions with bronze bearings or gears. No responsible manufacturer ever suggested using them in engines where their increasing activity at high temperatures could lead to piston ring corrosion and bore glazing. (For the same reason, modern ‘hypoid’ additives are not used in engines, even though they are much safer than any chlorinated additive.)

3) X-1R Friction Eliminator and its clones are based upon very outdated technology, which was abandoned by responsible lubricant manufacturers for automotive transmission uses in the 1950s. Chlorinated compounds still find applications in metal working, but their use is on the decline because of health and safety considerations.

4) When burnt, chlorinated paraffins produce corrosive hydrochloric acid, and organo-chlorine compounds including the highly poisonous phosgene gas. Apart from these corrosion and health hazards, with petrol engines the deactivation of exhaust catalysts is also a problem.

5) Unfortunately, these additives give spectacular results in simple EP test machines such as the ‘Falex’. As a marketing ploy, a demonstration of this type looks impressive to those not aquainted with the above facts. Also attractive is the low cost of chlorinated compounds, allowing profits of several thousand percent to be made.

Cheers

Guy.
So they're good, then.

hehe

Globulator

13,131 posts

111 months

[news] 
Friday 23rd November 2007 quote quote all
GreenV8S said:
RobM77 said:
I expect Slick 50 would work well with a fairly cheap oil.
I wouldn't expect it to work at all with any oil - the way it is claimed to work by coating bearing surfaces with a non-stick layer is not feasible. All it will do is block the filter, hopefully the filter will take it out before it blocks the oil ways.
Slick 50 doesn't work, IIRC eight class action lawsuits said so too.
Here is one of the Legal rulings:

http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/legal/s50fcn.ht...

In fact Du-Pont knew it was rubbish too, and had to be forced to sell it to them.
One reason it doesn't work is - PTFE DOES NOT STICK.

A couple of thoughts also worth bearing in mind are:
a) If PTFE was a better bearing material, the manufacturers would use PTFE bearings.
b) Plain bearings MAKE NO PHYSICAL CONTACT. It is OIL FILM technology. Doh!!

There is some interesting info about oil additives on that site.

Smoother running engines after an additive addition are down to ONLY TWO THINGS:

1) New oil. Try it one day - listen to before and after. New oil makes a huge difference.
2) Thicker oil - the majority of the additive. And don't try gear oil kids, it will dissolve your plain bearings.

BTW molybdenum disulfide has its place in heavy gear grease, perhaps a worn diff may be prolonged by it - I don't know, it's action however is at least based on some science. It does NOT however belong inside engines.

opieoilman

3,047 posts

116 months

[news] 
Friday 23rd November 2007 quote quote all
Couldnt agree more.

Cheers

Guy.

catso

10,813 posts

147 months

[news] 
Friday 23rd November 2007 quote quote all
I used to work for a company that made machinery utilising a high speed industrial sewing machine (Union Special), we used to put Slick 50/STP in with the sewing machine oil and found that they suffered less wear, this was a long time ago though and I'm not sure sewing machine oils had the sort of development found in automotive oils.

I've never used additives in any of my vehicles as I'm sure the oil companies have done sufficient research into formulation.
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