The XJ8 wont start again!
Discussion
Well after having all the problems before Christmas with the Jag not starting I took it to the mechanic who said that it was a nikasil problem (which I doubt as the blow by test said 25 I also had the throttle body changed) it has since run for 3 months without a murmur. Went to it today and it turns over but no firing, when I let the engine turn over and over , there was a 'bump' from the mid/back of the car 3 times. I would normally think this was misfiring but as far as I could tell it hadn't fired at all. I could smell petrol at the back of the car so I doubt it was starved of fuel. PLEASE HELP!!!
The bump you describe could have been surplus fuel igniting in the exhaust.
One of the symptoms of an engine suffering from Nicasil wear is indeed occasional poor starting. Repeated cranking can lead to flooding that allows fuel vapour to saturate the exhaust system.
You can try starting again several hours later but I'd suggest you remove all the spark plugs - check the gaps, should be 1.0mm - and allow the fuel to evaporate. Whilst you're under the bonnet have a look inside the air intake ducting that runs from the air filter box to the throttle body. Heavy oil contamination in here suggests significant crank case pressurisation (blow by) which also points to erroded or worn bore linings.
If you're really desperate - I don't condone this - you'll f
k the catalysts if done repeatedly- allow 4 or 5 drops of engine oil from a can down the plug holes just before you replace the plugs and start up. The oil will coat the bores, and if Nicasil wear is the problem, allow the engine to develop enough compression to start.
By doing this you may be solving more than one problem at once so it's not an accurate diagnosis, but at least if you can get the car to start you can take it to a garage for more investigation. If the blowby figure is 25, whilst not brilliant it's not suggesting the bores are terminally erroded, I'd suggest another blowby test to confirm the figure.
One of the symptoms of an engine suffering from Nicasil wear is indeed occasional poor starting. Repeated cranking can lead to flooding that allows fuel vapour to saturate the exhaust system.
You can try starting again several hours later but I'd suggest you remove all the spark plugs - check the gaps, should be 1.0mm - and allow the fuel to evaporate. Whilst you're under the bonnet have a look inside the air intake ducting that runs from the air filter box to the throttle body. Heavy oil contamination in here suggests significant crank case pressurisation (blow by) which also points to erroded or worn bore linings.
If you're really desperate - I don't condone this - you'll f
k the catalysts if done repeatedly- allow 4 or 5 drops of engine oil from a can down the plug holes just before you replace the plugs and start up. The oil will coat the bores, and if Nicasil wear is the problem, allow the engine to develop enough compression to start.By doing this you may be solving more than one problem at once so it's not an accurate diagnosis, but at least if you can get the car to start you can take it to a garage for more investigation. If the blowby figure is 25, whilst not brilliant it's not suggesting the bores are terminally erroded, I'd suggest another blowby test to confirm the figure.
Thanks Steve! Going to try it now (it's been standing over night now and I have had the battery on charge for a couple of hours) Will let you know the results (if any).
The mechanic who got it started last time said that it had low compression on one cylider and that he thought the valves were stuck, surely with only one or even two pots down it would have fired?
The mechanic who got it started last time said that it had low compression on one cylider and that he thought the valves were stuck, surely with only one or even two pots down it would have fired?
ChampagneCharlie said:
Thanks Steve! Going to try it now (it's been standing over night now and I have had the battery on charge for a couple of hours) Will let you know the results (if any).
The mechanic who got it started last time said that it had low compression on one cylider and that he thought the valves were stuck, surely with only one or even two pots down it would have fired?
Any luck?The mechanic who got it started last time said that it had low compression on one cylider and that he thought the valves were stuck, surely with only one or even two pots down it would have fired?
How did he know compression was down on only one cyl? Even if it had stickling valves lowering compression pressure on one cylinder that's very unlikley to be the cause of your flooding/starting problem. The only accurate way to diagnose lack of compression and the cause is by doing a compression check on all 8 and comparing the values, which should be within 10% of each other.
Yes you're right, with one, two - possibily even more - cylinders down on compression, but firing it should still start and run.
If it starts take it out for a brisk drive
and see what it starts like when hot.ChampagneCharlie said:
I daren't admit this!!! I don't know how to find the spark plugs. Just had a look and they're not obvious. Must be a girl thing?
No they are not obvious to most blokes either.Right, you'll need a 8mm spanner, a socket set with a long extension and the smaller of the two spark plug sockets. Take your time and a bit of care - there's brittle bits which are easy to break
On top of each bank of the engine there's a long black rectangular plate secured with 6 bolts.
Remove this and you'll see a thin wiring harness going to 4 connectors on top of the coils.
Depress the clips locating the connectors on the end of the harness to the coils and carefully remove.
Pull each coil upwards out of the engine and you'll see the plugs underneath.
Check there's no crap around the plugs which may fall into the engine when you take the out then remove the plugs.
All 8 plug tips should be a light brown to grey in colour. If you have a big variation between plug appearance this may be a clue - so keep them in order - of which cylinder there may be a problem with.
Don't try to clean them. Check the gaps. Should be 1.0mm, but they should still fire with slightly bigger.
Pre 2000 engines should have NGK PFR5G - 13E plugs and 2000 and on NGK PFR5G - 11E plugs.
Leave for a while for any residual fuel to evaporate.
Open the oil filler cap and sniff - a strong smell of petrol here or on the dipstick suggests there's petrol vapour in the sump, which means you have a slight risk of a crankcase explosion if removing the plugs is a success and the engine fires. Changing the oil is the only answer if it's heavilly contaminated with petrol, it'll wreck the engine if you leave it.
Put it all back together, take care not to cross thread the plugs when refitting and don't overtighten them and give it a go.
HTH
Very much doubt Nikasil as related to problem. All it will be is a flooded engine, this washes all the oil from the bores leading to no compression. To start you need to keep your foot on the throttle to the floor whilst turning the engine. This keeps the fuel pumps off and allows the oil pump to work. Only release the throttle when it starts. Can take several minutes 
This is very common with the Jag V8 as it over fuels very easily especially if you turn off the engine while still in the choke cycle. Adding oil to the bore can help but is not necessary. You may find you need to charge the battery first though.
This is very common with the Jag V8 as it over fuels very easily especially if you turn off the engine while still in the choke cycle. Adding oil to the bore can help but is not necessary. You may find you need to charge the battery first though.
Had you started it, moved it about 10 yards and then turned it off immediately prior to it flooding.
Mine wil flood 50% of the time if I do this. Fix is exactly as descrbied above thoughI've never needed to take the plugs out. It does feel like there is zero compression and it will never ever catch. Average time 10 mins constant trying
Mine wil flood 50% of the time if I do this. Fix is exactly as descrbied above thoughI've never needed to take the plugs out. It does feel like there is zero compression and it will never ever catch. Average time 10 mins constant trying
Strange from a dealer, this is a known issue, and can be cured (or better said avoided) with an ECU software update.
The TSB is X303-52 "DIFFICULT/NON-START AND ENGINE HESITATION Model:"
with text: "Difficult/non-start from cold after moving the vehicle a short distance the previous day"
Affected XKs
Vin 031303 - 042775, and A00083 - A11050
Andre.
Above of course assuming that the compression test turns out good as Jaguar Steve suggested, and it was indeed caused by a short start/stop situation.
The TSB is X303-52 "DIFFICULT/NON-START AND ENGINE HESITATION Model:"
with text: "Difficult/non-start from cold after moving the vehicle a short distance the previous day"
Affected XKs
Vin 031303 - 042775, and A00083 - A11050
Andre.
Above of course assuming that the compression test turns out good as Jaguar Steve suggested, and it was indeed caused by a short start/stop situation.
Edited by avos on Thursday 21st February 13:17
ChampagneCharlie said:
They want another 150 quids to diagnose the problem. I think it may be time to say bye bye and think again. Sad to say it though 'cos basically I like the car but this model has too many problems. Anyone got 2,250 pounds?
Getting rid might be best - could end up costing you a fortune.If you like the XJ shape and have a couple of grand to spend, why not have a look at the M to P registered X300 models? £2k would buy you a very good one of these, and you'd have none of the expensive problems the V8's can present.
avos said:
Strange from a dealer, this is a known issue, and can be cured (or better said avoided) with an ECU software update.
The TSB is X303-52 "DIFFICULT/NON-START AND ENGINE HESITATION Model:"
with text: "Difficult/non-start from cold after moving the vehicle a short distance the previous day"
Affected XKs
Vin 031303 - 042775, and A00083 - A11050
Andre.
Above of course assuming that the compression test turns out good as Jaguar Steve suggested, and it was indeed caused by a short start/stop situation.
My VIN is 828146 so I don't think this is affected.The TSB is X303-52 "DIFFICULT/NON-START AND ENGINE HESITATION Model:"
with text: "Difficult/non-start from cold after moving the vehicle a short distance the previous day"
Affected XKs
Vin 031303 - 042775, and A00083 - A11050
Andre.
Above of course assuming that the compression test turns out good as Jaguar Steve suggested, and it was indeed caused by a short start/stop situation.
Edited by avos on Thursday 21st February 13:17
CC
Well, got the car running but the dealer says that trying the 'foot to the floor' as he suggested, caused a back fire which has melted the air filter and part of the box! Great! I got it through the MOT with no problems though so she is now up for sale. I think I'll try a Camaro or Firebird instead.
Thanks for everyone's help!!
Thanks for everyone's help!!
This post has now got me worried. I have a 3.2 X300 and surely enough if I move the car 10ft off the crive, move the lawnmoer and then put the car back on the drive and turn the engine off when I come to start it next morning it goes cough cough splutter and then refuses to start for a good hour or two. I then have to come back and try to start it with the foot on the floor, after a few minutes of desparate cranking and usually just befoer the battery is about to go flat it coughs reluctantly into life - I can live with this because I know about it now its happened a few times.
We have now covered 130k and are still adding about 2,000 miles per month, the rumbles from the diff and the general wheel/rolling noise is getting louder - although gearbox is quiet when warmm and engine is lovely. The other problem is I cant get the whole family in since there is only a lap belt in the middle on the back seat.....
So I was thinking of upgrading to an X308 - however if the above is common I am now really put off! My X300 has taken me 35k miles since I parted with £1,800 for her and I have never had any mechanical breakdown so I am really happy with my 3.2. I can even live with the lower performance since if you use the J Gate and get the timings correct and use the top end of the rev range it moves rapidly enough for a busy A road.
If I were to look at a X308 what are the most reliable models? I have a breathed upon XJS for fun times so this is more a work and back and family holiday car.
Nick
We have now covered 130k and are still adding about 2,000 miles per month, the rumbles from the diff and the general wheel/rolling noise is getting louder - although gearbox is quiet when warmm and engine is lovely. The other problem is I cant get the whole family in since there is only a lap belt in the middle on the back seat.....
So I was thinking of upgrading to an X308 - however if the above is common I am now really put off! My X300 has taken me 35k miles since I parted with £1,800 for her and I have never had any mechanical breakdown so I am really happy with my 3.2. I can even live with the lower performance since if you use the J Gate and get the timings correct and use the top end of the rev range it moves rapidly enough for a busy A road.
If I were to look at a X308 what are the most reliable models? I have a breathed upon XJS for fun times so this is more a work and back and family holiday car.
Nick
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