Can you legally put a RX7 engine in an RX8? Emissions wise?

[bigfatnick]

Hi all, i'm looking at buying an rx8, first of all i'm not interested in the usualy sgging off of the rx-8 i read on here, i've driven a few, i like them, i like how you can fit 3 people in them comfortably ish,i like the group 16 insurance (the last 2 reasons putting me off a 350z) i like the handling, i like the interior, i like how i'm 6foot3 and 20 stone and i actually fit in the thing, i like the fact thats its nice newish car, i dont care about the costs of taxing it and fueling it as it will be purely a second car, i have access to other vehicles if i need to do a big trip etc.
And i even like the performance, at the moment, but i know i'll want more in a while. And with the high fatality rate of rx-8 renesis engines (combined with me being not the most mechanically sympathetic person) i'd be interested to know about engine swaps.

The internet as shown me that in america, australia and greece, lots of people are putting 13b and 20b (and even nissan sr20det), engines in them and hopefully people will soon start experimenting with big v8's, all of which are things i'd be very interested in.

The question i have is aa the car is designed to be euro4 compliant, are there any legal bits stopping me fitting an engine from the late 90's? Would i have to meet the emissions of the standard rx-8 or would i just need to meet the emissions for whatever engine i fitted?

Thanks

Nick

[Wadeski]

there is a supercharger kit for the renesis....

[anonymous-user]

There are turbo kits too. Fitting a 13B or 20B would be fine, but you would have to meet the MOT emissions for the age of your car. It's not as stringent a test as Euro4, but is more than a visual smoke test. Fitting a V8 would spoil the handling that you like and make it big and heavy like the Z. Pop the engine cover off one and look down past the alternator and marvel at how small, low and far back the Renesis really is.

[bigfatnick]

Wadeski said:

there is a supercharger kit for the renesis....

yeah, but it's not big power, and it still means having the renesis, which looking at the number of people who've had replacment engines on the owners club, seems maybe to not be the perfect idea.

But take this question as hypathetical one...

thanks

[bigfatnick]

LexSport said:

There are turbo kits too. Fitting a 13B or 20B would be fine, but you would have to meet the MOT emissions for the age of your car. It's not as stringent a test as Euro4, but is more than a visual smoke test. Fitting a V8 would spoil the handling that you like and make it big and heavy like the Z. Pop the engine cover off one and look down past the alternator and marvel at how small, low and far back the Renesis really is.

yeah i had a feeling about the v8 being too heavy, although i heard the conversions with alloy block chevvy ls1's never really ruined the rx-7's handling, (seeing as they weigh similar amounts to 2litre iron block nissan sr20 engines, although the weight would be futher forwards.

So presumably if a 13b went in a rx-8 it'd have to pass the emissions for the renesis? So with the addition of a couple of catalysts, mot time, it should go though? maybe?

cheers

nick

[IainT]

bigfatnick said:

Hi all, i'm looking at buying an rx8, first of all i'm not interested in the usualy sgging off of the rx-8 i read on here, i've driven a few, i like them, i like how you can fit 3 people in them comfortably ish,i like the group 16 insurance (the last 2 reasons putting me off a 350z)

You'll lose anything like that benefit by heavily modifying the car. You will have to tell the insurance co and htey well scale the price accordingly!

bigfatnick said:

And i even like the performance, at the moment, but i know i'll want more in a while. And with the high fatality rate of rx-8 renesis engines (combined with me being not the most mechanically sympathetic person) i'd be interested to know about engine swaps.

What high fatality rate? It'd be a far higher risk to stick a 13b from the 7 into it and cost a whole lot more than replacing a renesis unit if it did fail! The Renesis will last far longer than a turbo'd rotary.


There are a few Turbo conversions out and about - not sure who's got most experience though - WGT, RE:Worx or Hayward Rotary. You should go ask the questions over on www.mazdarotaryclub.com

Not sure what the legal aspects are of an engine transplant though.

[anonymous-user]

Not specifically for the Renesis, just for any > 95(?) car fitted with a cat, I believe. AFAIK, the MOT test does not differentiate between the engines fitted to a car or the emissions of that car as standard, it is simply meeting the required standards for the age of car.

[bigfatnick]

LexSport said:

Not specifically for the Renesis, just for any > 95(?) car fitted with a cat, I believe. AFAIK, the MOT test does not differentiate between the engines fitted to a car or the emissions of that car as standard, it is simply meeting the required standards for the age of car.

interesting, does anyone know what gasses are measured? Thanks

[bigfatnick]

IainT said:

bigfatnick said:

Hi all, i'm looking at buying an rx8, first of all i'm not interested in the usualy sgging off of the rx-8 i read on here, i've driven a few, i like them, i like how you can fit 3 people in them comfortably ish,i like the group 16 insurance (the last 2 reasons putting me off a 350z)

You'll lose anything like that benefit by heavily modifying the car. You will have to tell the insurance co and htey well scale the price accordingly!

i understand and having owned none standard cars before, i've found that its not always to difficult providing you used the correct insurance company.

IainT said:

bigfatnick said:

And i even like the performance, at the moment, but i know i'll want more in a while. And with the high fatality rate of rx-8 renesis engines (combined with me being not the most mechanically sympathetic person) i'd be interested to know about engine swaps.

What high fatality rate? It'd be a far higher risk to stick a 13b from the 7 into it and cost a whole lot more than replacing a renesis unit if it did fail! The Renesis will last far longer than a turbo'd rotary.


There are a few Turbo conversions out and about - not sure who's got most experience though - WGT, RE:Worx or Hayward Rotary. You should go ask the questions over on www.mazdarotaryclub.com

Not sure what the legal aspects are of an engine transplant though.

This high fatality rate mate http://www.rx8ownersclub.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php... . Combined with the reviews on consumer review sites such as carsurvey.org . I've not seen any engines on ebay yet so i dont know what the costs of an engine from a crashed car are but it seems theyre about £5k from a dealer. And supercharging/turboing a renesis with 40/50 odd k miles at a cost of more than 4grand or whatever it has when i buy one it would seem isn't the wisest decision given these engines to seem to have a higher than usual failure rate.


Anyways, i'm sorry guys but i only started this thread as a hypothetical, could i? having seen the impressive results of 13b/20b rx-8's on youtube. I didn't wanna start an argument about the reliablity of the renesis, i've already had that going round my head for the past 2 weeks as i try decide wether to buy one or hold out for a more expensive, less practical, harder to insure nissan 350z/ and much more expensive to run vauxhall monaro or go down the make people think i have christmas lights on the house all year round, park in mcdonalds making lots of noise route of an s15 200sx

cheers

nick

Edited by bigfatnick on Thursday 9th October 13:11

Edited by bigfatnick on Thursday 9th October 13:13

[was8v]

LexSport said:

Not specifically for the Renesis, just for any > 95(?) car fitted with a cat, I believe. AFAIK, the MOT test does not differentiate between the engines fitted to a car or the emissions of that car as standard, it is simply meeting the required standards for the age of car.

This is wrong. The vehicle has to meet the emissions standard for the age of the engine or the vehicle whichever is older. E.g. if I fitted a 1990 engine to my 2008 car it would have to pass 1990 emissions NOT 2008. If I fitted a 2008 engine to my 1990 car then again it would only need to pass 1990 emissions.

mot manual said:

Test according to which is older, engine or vehicle.
e.g. A 1995 car fitted with a 1991 engine (of whatever make), test to 1991 standards for emission purposes.

Note: The onus is on the vehicle presenter
to prove engine age.

http://www.motuk.co.uk/manual_730.htm

[IainT]

Looking at the rx80c thread it's hardly huge numbers given the volume of sales.

Main point I was making, that you have missed, is that the Renesis is much more reliable than the turbod 13b from teh 3rd Gen 7.

If it's big power you're after then, obviously, you'll sacrifice reliability but you seem concerned about the renesis' reliability which doesn't make sense!

[bigfatnick]

IainT said:

Looking at the rx80c thread it's hardly huge numbers given the volume of sales.

Main point I was making, that you have missed, is that the Renesis is much more reliable than the turbod 13b from teh 3rd Gen 7.

If it's big power you're after then, obviously, you'll sacrifice reliability but you seem concerned about the renesis' reliability which doesn't make sense!

ahh, yeah, i did miss your point.

I know what you mean mate, but it'll be a plaything, and i wouldnt mind throwing money at it if it reaps something special. If you catch my drift. The reliablity aspect that concerns me is that new stuff is always designed so that normal people cant tinker with them and you have to fire big money at them to get the same back. Erm, i know the point i'm trying to make, even if i'm not putting it across very elequently.

cheers,

nick

[Riknos]

If it's just gonna be used a weekend toy, why not just get a '7? Much better car IMO, and not using it daily is sounds perfect!
Saves all the pissing about..

[bigfatnick]

Riknos said:

If it's just gonna be used a weekend toy, why not just get a '7? Much better car IMO, and not using it daily is sounds perfect!
Saves all the pissing about..

i like new cars, and althoguh i've never sat in one, i'm pretty big, i cant fit in an mx5, s2000, tvr cebera, etc, i'm told theyre tiny, although i should probably try squeeze in one really.

[cocopop]

bigfatnick said:

Riknos said:

If it's just gonna be used a weekend toy, why not just get a '7? Much better car IMO, and not using it daily is sounds perfect!
Saves all the pissing about..

i like new cars, and althoguh i've never sat in one, i'm pretty big, i cant fit in an mx5, s2000, tvr cebera, etc, i'm told theyre tiny, although i should probably try squeeze in one really.

I reckon you'd fit.

I've had a 6'3" 17 stone mate of mine fit into the drivers seat of my FD. Give it a try.

It'd be much cheaper to pick up a well-sorted 7 than swap a renesis for a 13b. Some serious bargains around at the moment.

Edited by cocopop on Friday 10th October 12:13

[IainT]

cocopop said:

bigfatnick said:

Riknos said:

If it's just gonna be used a weekend toy, why not just get a '7? Much better car IMO, and not using it daily is sounds perfect!
Saves all the pissing about..

i like new cars, and althoguh i've never sat in one, i'm pretty big, i cant fit in an mx5, s2000, tvr cebera, etc, i'm told theyre tiny, although i should probably try squeeze in one really.

I reckon you'd fit.

I've had a 6'3" 17 stone mate of mine fit into the drivers seat of my FD. Give it a try.

It'd be much cheaper to pick up a well-sorted 7 than swap a renesis for a 13b. Some serious bargains around at the moment.

Edited by cocopop on Friday 10th October 12:13

I'm 6' and 13 stone. I have no problems fitting in my FD and there are a few mods available to make the seat runners accept taller gents.

Width, unfortunately, might be a different issue although changing seats from stock may alleviate that a little. Normal buckets will rub against the door (I have a set of Brides in mine that have shaped shoulder supports on the outsides to avoid this.

Unfortunately, painful to admint, the FD chassis is not the best out there in terms of native rigidity. Plenty of options for stiffening it up though. The FD is well known for issues shutting doors if one corner is jacked up - one of the reasons the FD door is so solid is it's a major structural component!!!

I can see why the OP would want a pupmed up 8 as the chassis is supposed to be superb.

Personally I find the looks of the 8 from some angles a bit 'meh'!

[anonymous-user]

The RX8 chassis is great - up to a point. I've not heard many professional drivers with good things to say about their limit handling, especially transitions.

[neiljohnson]

As far as the mot is concerned, if a car has a non original engine then the emissions test goes on the age of the engine not the car. Ie 2004 car has a 1991 engine it does not have to have a cat or meet 2004 emissions standards. You are required to provide proof of the engines age if asked. A reciept from where you bought it stating what year of vehicle the engine came from would do.

[mike_1985]

I have a mechanic friend in the USA who rebuilds mazda engines for a living and he is saying that most rx8 engines do not go past 60k and at 80k its on its last legs

Edited by mike_1985 on Tuesday 14th October 22:09

[anonymous-user]

If his job is to rebuild engines, he's unlikely to see many that aren't in need of a rebuild, is he?