VW Golf Mk2 GTI 16v Engine advice....

[Tom16v]

Hello!

That's a long subject title....

I am doing a few minor alterations to my 20 year old 16v which I have owned for the past 11. I have replaced the bushes with poly ones, renewed shocks, uprated the front discs and pads, and about to embark on doing some work on the engine.

I want to use the car for doing 'solo' events and some mild track days. The car has 160K on the clock, the bodywork is immaculate and structurally sound (garaged nearly all its life), its a 2 door, there is no rust (no even on the brake pipes) and I have regularly done the oil/filters/plugs/etc. The cam belt has been done every 30K. It has a Lucas sports coil and Spitfire HT leads.

The question: I don't want to turn it into a 'mentalists car', just feel the engine could do with some maintenance to get the best out of it again with some mild tuning. I don't want Carbs or a fragile 250BHP car on £5K engine rebuild.

I am in Gloucestershire, so does anyone know of an engine rebuilders (reasonable prices!) or give me direction as to what 'mods' I could make?

Thanks,

Tom

[Nobody You Know]

Hey man, were abouts in Glos are you? I'm a fellow Gloucestershire (former)16V Jetta/Golf car and trackday owner. Had 2 16V jettas and built a 16v Golf track car also currently run a 16V MK1 trackcar with a fellow PH'er

Anywho my recomendation would be to keep it fairly standard save for improving the breathing. Does your car have the 50mm inlet manifold? If it doesn't fit one (fairly cheap and easy) this will make the top end performance significantly better. Then go for a tubular manifold and exhaust system.

Another thing to get done would be to have the injectors cleaned, I had mine done and the spray patterns were all over the place when checked, afterwards the car had smoother power delivery and a little more top end.

To gain more power I'd either go for a 2.0 block or fit some cams but these require more than just mild work like the stuff suggested above and more money.

Sorry don't know any specific engine builders round here, Longlife stainless exhausts now have a branch in Berkeley (nr Dursley) which may be useful for the exhaust.

Edited by Nobody You Know on Friday 6th March 19:26

[Dr G]

Very sound advice above - if you haven't already bin the stupid warm air feed into the airbox and cut a big hole in the outside (wing side only) of the box and take the blanking plate out of the inner wing.

Handy supply of cold air and sounds effects to go with it

You may well already know it but 16v motors are very sensitive to timing; the marks seem to be guess work too so time it up the old fashioned way with a rod down the spark plug hole and plenty of advance to go with all that lovely super unleaded. COs set to 2% too

[Nobody You Know]

Dr G said:

Very sound advice above - if you haven't already bin the stupid warm air feed into the airbox and cut a big hole in the outside (wing side only) of the box and take the blanking plate out of the inner wing.

Handy supply of cold air and sounds effects to go with it

You may well already know it but 16v motors are very sensitive to timing; the marks seem to be guess work too so time it up the old fashioned way with a rod down the spark plug hole and plenty of advance to go with all that lovely super unleaded. COs set to 2% too

Along with the timing issue at 160K I would suggest fitting a new timing chain and tensioner.
Although the chain between the exhaust and inlet cams is a non-replaceable item it does wear and goes slack and retards the inlet cam timing, for the sake of £14 from GSF it's worth doing. Do the tensioner just for piece of mind.

[sidgolf]

ref. camchain-how can you tell if its worn,do you look for excessive up-down 'slop'in the part between the cam-wheels,and if so,how many mm.of play would you allow before replacing it?

also,to change the chain,am i right to think its just a matter of taking the cam-cover off and taking the inlet-cam out?

[skid-mark]

challenge motor company in cheltenham glos is a good vw garage and would recomend them for advise if it was me i would be looking for another engine with lower miles as your internals are prob little bit worn.

Edited by skid-mark on Sunday 8th March 01:31

[Nobody You Know]

sidgolf said:

ref. camchain-how can you tell if its worn,do you look for excessive up-down 'slop'in the part between the cam-wheels,and if so,how many mm.of play would you allow before replacing it?

also,to change the chain,am i right to think its just a matter of taking the cam-cover off and taking the inlet-cam out?

I'm pretty sure you need to remove both cams to do the job, when I did it we were doing cam belt and tensioner as well though so may not have needed to. It's not a huge job though but be prepared to have to do the timing. For the minimal price of the parts and the fact your taking it all apart you might as well do the whole lot.

Yes you are correct about how you check for wear, it is the up down slop between the cam wheels, can't remember where I got the spec from though (Haynes manual maybe?) I think it's omething like 7-10mm ideally.

On another tuning subject I believe you can also fit the bigger throttle body from some early K-Jet' Audi 5 cylinder engines as well to aid breathing. Not quite sure which one though.

[DubberGti]

All good advise above. One more thing I'd add, try and find someone who actually knows kjet and has the equipment to set up the fuel pressures.

With the system and control pressures set to optimum using the Warm Up Regulator, CO at 2+- and timing slightly advanced, a std engine in good health should see 150bhp.

Edited by DubberGti on Sunday 8th March 12:48

[Tom16v]

Hello!

Thanks everyone for the sound advice. Challenge already look after the car in Cheltenham and they are always helpful. I want to make sure I have everything straight and know what I want to do, exactly, before embarking on the engine project.

I think the engine will need to have to have as much done as possible without taking it out! Thanks for the advice on the timing chains and the delicate timing issues as well as the warm air feed.

With the issue of cleaning the injectors, how would you go about that? Is it a petrol additive, or is it a removal job?

Thanks v much, and keep the advice coming. I shall keep everyone updated.

Tom

Edited by Tom16v on Sunday 8th March 18:37

[Nobody You Know]

Tom16v said:

Hello!


With the issue of cleaning the injectors, how would you go about that? Is it a petrol additive, or is it a removal job?

Edited by Tom16v on Sunday 8th March 18:37

You just unscrew the pipes and pop them out, you need special machine though to clean them that forces presurised cleaner through to clear any dirt and from the pressure gauge you can also see what pressure they are opening at (sometimes the spring can go soft and they open early). I got mine done a by a place with a rolling road up in the Northwest don't know any places down here.

[Tom16v]

Nobody You Know said:

Tom16v said:

Hello!


With the issue of cleaning the injectors, how would you go about that? Is it a petrol additive, or is it a removal job?

Edited by Tom16v on Sunday 8th March 18:37

You just unscrew the pipes and pop them out, you need special machine though to clean them that forces presurised cleaner through to clear any dirt and from the pressure gauge you can also see what pressure they are opening at (sometimes the spring can go soft and they open early). I got mine done a by a place with a rolling road up in the Northwest don't know any places down here.

Thanks for that advice. I have actaully bought a spare set of injectors from a car that had less miles on the clock. They have been sitting in the garage for a while, so I might run a test on those and the orignal ones and work out which ones are in the best shape. I shall do some homework on where to do it, or the machine to do it.

(I had a look at the cars you've had and they have been some nice cars you've had - I've had a Mk1 GTI 1.8, Corrado VR6 Storm, VW Bora PD TDI, my current drives are the Golf, a SEAT Altea FR TDI and a VW Transporter LWB!!!)

[Nobody You Know]

Tom16v said:

Nobody You Know said:

Tom16v said:

Hello!


With the issue of cleaning the injectors, how would you go about that? Is it a petrol additive, or is it a removal job?

Edited by Tom16v on Sunday 8th March 18:37

You just unscrew the pipes and pop them out, you need special machine though to clean them that forces presurised cleaner through to clear any dirt and from the pressure gauge you can also see what pressure they are opening at (sometimes the spring can go soft and they open early). I got mine done a by a place with a rolling road up in the Northwest don't know any places down here.

Thanks for that advice. I have actaully bought a spare set of injectors from a car that had less miles on the clock. They have been sitting in the garage for a while, so I might run a test on those and the orignal ones and work out which ones are in the best shape. I shall do some homework on where to do it, or the machine to do it.

(I had a look at the cars you've had and they have been some nice cars you've had - I've had a Mk1 GTI 1.8, Corrado VR6 Storm, VW Bora PD TDI, my current drives are the Golf, a SEAT Altea FR TDI and a VW Transporter LWB!!!)

Cheers bro, would love another 16v Jetta to mess about with.

Thats alot of V-dubs you drive. VR6 Storm..... Nice. MK1 1.8GTi..... Very nice.

If you go to get the injectors done take all 8 and get them to sort the 4 with the best spray pattern and spring pressure for you.

[Gompo]

Sorry to but in, but I've been thinking of getting a Mk2 16v so have been reading with interest.

Obviously many of these engines are pushing big mileages nowadays - I was wondering if it would be worth semi-rebuilding one of these motors (how much would that cost?) to extend lifetime or if fitting in a lower mileage ABF(?) lump from a Mk3 16v would be a better proposition, and also give a little more power?

Cheers, Greg.

[Nobody You Know]

Gompo said:

Sorry to but in, but I've been thinking of getting a Mk2 16v so have been reading with interest.

Obviously many of these engines are pushing big mileages nowadays - I was wondering if it would be worth semi-rebuilding one of these motors (how much would that cost?) to extend lifetime or if fitting in a lower mileage ABF(?) lump from a Mk3 16v would be a better proposition, and also give a little more power?

Cheers, Greg.

I wouldn't worry too much about mileage as long as it's been looked after or your not trying to get big BHP. The three I owned covered 140k 175K and 189K and they were fine.
189K Engine was a 2.0 ABF engine on the dyno it did 145bhp absolutely standard.


Now thats what you call power band.

http://s455.photobucket.com/albums/qq274/callan_t8...

With a decat pipe and air filter it did 149.8 BHP

It's been thrashed on about 15 track dyas since and is still fine apparently.

[Matt_N]

Really depends on your budget and whether you will be doing the work yourself?

You could go to somewhere like TSR and get one of their 1.9, 2.0 or 2.1 16v engines, although they start at just under £3k fitted.

Or you could go the DIY route of fitting an 2.0 16v ABF from the Mk3 in, with a few tweaks these are 170bhp motors.

Or you could get your 1.8 16v engine rebuilt with some head work, mild cams and a 4 branch would see you at around 165-170bhp. Or take it a bit further and go for larger pistons to take it to 1900cc.

There really are so many options...

[_Batty_]

Fit an ABF would be my advice. Just the block and run it on the k-jet system, nothing to worry about.
or put the later than KR, 9a 2.0 16v and fit KR cams.

[Gompo]

Thanks for the replies, and apologies to Tom for somewhat nicking his thread.

To be honest I'd like to keep things pretty simple, not bothered about having a high power NA unit as it gets expensive and annoying with throttle bodies or carbs etc.

So the ABF block will fit the existing 1.8 KR head? Is the 9a swap more involved? Wouldnt be opposed to swapping cams about aslong as they're not too lumpy, and would prefer to keep the existing injection..

Cheers.

[Tom16v]

No worries Gompo! I've been going through all of these options in my head for a while. I am tending to stay with the lump already in it, as I have known it for 120K miles and it has never let me down. I just want to breathe a bit of life back into it and make sure I can afford it!!

Please keep adding to this thread as the information on 16v engines the better, in my opinion!!!!!

Cheers,

Tom

[Gompo]

Tom,

What has made you stick with the Golf for so long?

I've not had that many different cars and a Mk2 16v is a definite on the list of cars to own in the near future, but I imagine I'd have a summer of fun with it and then get rid - which is my usual practice.

[Nobody You Know]

Gompo said:

Thanks for the replies, and apologies to Tom for somewhat nicking his thread.

To be honest I'd like to keep things pretty simple, not bothered about having a high power NA unit as it gets expensive and annoying with throttle bodies or carbs etc.

So the ABF block will fit the existing 1.8 KR head? Is the 9a swap more involved? Wouldnt be opposed to swapping cams about aslong as they're not too lumpy, and would prefer to keep the existing injection..

Cheers.

The KR head will fit the ABF or 9A block, the cams in the KR unit are known for being quite aggressive already, often put in ABF and 9A engines as a cheap effective upgrade.

The main difference if I remember correctly is that the ABF is longer stroke whereas the 9a is bigger bore (bothed compared to the KR) depends whether revs or torque are your goal.

I'm pretty sure you can get the KR cams reground on an exchange scheme fairly cheaply to gain a little more lift and opening.

Edited to add that I can't find the link for a KR camshaft regrind exchange service anywhere, definately didn't imagine it though.

Edited by Nobody You Know on Monday 9th March 23:44