VW Golf Mk2 GTI 16v Engine advice....

[Matt_N]

Nobody You Know said:

Gompo said:

Thanks for the replies, and apologies to Tom for somewhat nicking his thread.

To be honest I'd like to keep things pretty simple, not bothered about having a high power NA unit as it gets expensive and annoying with throttle bodies or carbs etc.

So the ABF block will fit the existing 1.8 KR head? Is the 9a swap more involved? Wouldnt be opposed to swapping cams about aslong as they're not too lumpy, and would prefer to keep the existing injection..

Cheers.

The KR head will fit the ABF or 9A block, the cams in the KR unit are known for being quite aggressive already, often put in ABF and 9A engines as a cheap effective upgrade.

The main difference if I remember correctly is that the ABF is longer stroke whereas the 9a is bigger bore (bothed compared to the KR) depends whether revs or torque are your goal.

I'm pretty sure you can get the KR cams reground on an exchange scheme fairly cheaply to gain a little more lift and opening.

Edited to add that I can't find the link for a KR camshaft regrind exchange service anywhere, definately didn't imagine it though.

Edited by Nobody You Know on Monday 9th March 23:44

I think Badger5 http://www.badger5.co.uk/ can do the reprofiled cams?

If you want to stick with the original engine, I would recommend getting it rebuilt by a well known rebuilder, Id go for some mild headwork at the same time and if you havent already got one get a decent 4 branch manifold to help things along.

[Gompo]

Thanks for the replies. Looks like an ABF with KR cams is the way for me - although I had always said to me self that I wanted to step up a league in performance terms with my next car..

The few 20vt converted cars for sale look tempting, are they not worth the hassle? I'm sure I've seen that TTs can be a pain to work on, so in a Mk2 Golf probably even worse?

[james28]

i run a mk3 bottom end with a 16v head on k jet with kr cams and the car is 180 bhp and 150 pft
and the car weight is 800 kg stripped out with polycarb windows and believe me it keeps up with most things

Edited by james28 on Tuesday 10th March 17:43

[Tom16v]

Thanks for more information! That's a nice Mk1 you've got there, with a good idea for the engine.

Compo - I've kept the car for so long that when I thought I might sell it I took it out for proper spin and then realised I shouldn't let it go!!! I've looked at other cars, including a Mk2 with a S3 engine, but it wasn't a very good install and was too much money. If you do look at a Mk2 with 1.8T make sure it is done properly, with everything working and tested. There are too many 'needs gauges plugging in' or 'needs rev counter sorting' or even 'needs an upgraded radiator'.....

Anyway, I want my car to remain fairly intact, so I shall keep taking the advice!

Thanks,

Tom

[Nobody You Know]

james28 said:

i run a mk3 bottom end with a 16v head on k jet with kr cams and the car is 180 bhp and 150 pft
and the car weight is 800 kg stripped out with polycarb windows and believe me it keeps up with most things

Jim, I think you mean it obliterates most things.

[aka_kerrly]

Where abouts in Gloucestershire are you? If you fancy a trip to Stroud id highly recommend having a word with Bill@ badger5 motorsport and with Dave @ the VW AUDI centre in Stonehouse or Dan @ TRD - turner racing developments also in Stroud

Between them they have built some serious track cars based on 16v engines, Bills old jetta ran over 200hp on ITBs and would get hounded round Castle Coombe all day long, similarly daves scirroco 16v has been in VW race series for years on a circa 220hp 16v engine.

regarding 2.0 L conversions you can use a 9A or 6A bottom end (these are refered to as bubble blocks and can be found in corrados/ b3 passats/audi 80s + coupes) OR you can use the ABF (tall block) 2.0 which is found in mk3 golfs/B4 passats. These require a few mods to get them to fit, mostly to the exhaust manifold.

YOU DO NOT run KR cams in a ABF though as ABF cams have more lift and more duration so a KR swap would be a downgrade. YOU CAN run KR cams in a 9A/6A head.

The differences between the 2.0 an 1.8 heads are you either have larger inlet ports on a 1.8 an smaller exhaust or vice versa on a 2.0 but this is irrelevent if you are having head work done.

a simple set up would be a
-2.0L bottom end
-KR head and standard cams or 276* inlet for track use
-Ported/polished head with skim to increase compression
-standard air box with large hole an blanking plate removed from the wing side + k@n type panel filter
- 4 branch manifold + 2 silencer 2.25 system.
- Warm up regulator modified to improve top end fueling ( storm + stealth racing do this)
- 50mm inlet manifold - port matched
- ported Audi 80 5cyl throttle body

this should see some very good figures of plus 180hp

I ran a 160hp 2.0 16v using 9A + KR head and it was worlds apart from a standard 1.8KR.

dave

[humpbackmaniac]

Oooh this is interesting, I am undergoing an 8v to 16v conversion on my Mk2, wish I had never bloody started it but hey ho.

Can anyone tell me if the 16v brake servo reservoir is different from the 8v? I want to bleed the brakes tomorrow but it looks like it will strike the intake tubeage when I get round to finding some that is!

So far...



Is it odd for a man to love his manifold? Sexy.....

[Tom16v]

aka_kerrly said:

Where abouts in Gloucestershire are you? If you fancy a trip to Stroud id highly recommend having a word with Bill@ badger5 motorsport and with Dave @ the VW AUDI centre in Stonehouse or Dan @ TRD - turner racing developments also in Stroud

.........I ran a 160hp 2.0 16v using 9A + KR head and it was worlds apart from a standard 1.8KR.

dave

I think I am developing a bit of a shopping and task list. Thanks for all the information. I've been to the VW Audi centre in Stonehouse to have a look and talk about some stuff. They had some really interesting cars in there.

I am in Cheltenham, but often venture in to Stroud and Stonehouse. I think a chat to the contacts you have given me would be the place to start.

Thanks v much,

Tom

(nice exhaust manifold above BTW!!!!!!! it's not wrong to have feelings - just remember - 'inner voice / outer voice' OK? )

[DubberGti]

@ Humpbackmaniac> Can I ask what make of manifold that is and where you got it? Any clearance issues?

And re: the ABF cams, I've just installed ABF cams into my near std KR 16v, waiting on getting another wee job finished off before it goes back on the same rollers for some data. But by a seat of yer pants evaluation it pulls equally hard if not harder than before but with better low down.

[ltj]

I have a mk1 with a 2.0 16valve in running about 170-180 bhp its goes really well a 5 door on steel wheels a true SLEEPER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! so addictive classic insurance aswell makes my mk2 look old and past it.

[bertelli_1]

Humpbackmaniac - yes the 16v servo is smaller than the 8v.

I've fitted a 1.8t in my mk2, is it worth it? Absolutely! The problem with big cams in the 8v & 16v engines is they tend to be quite peaky. The turbo engine has loads of torque at low revs & also produces big bhp numbers. I don't find the engine difficult to work on but whats easy for one person is hard fo another... I wouldn't say its much more difficult than the 8v it replaced & has needed less maintenance, even a turbo swap (upgrade) isn't too tricky.

[humpbackmaniac]

DubberGti said:

@ Humpbackmaniac> Can I ask what make of manifold that is and where you got it? Any clearance issues?

And re: the ABF cams, I've just installed ABF cams into my near std KR 16v, waiting on getting another wee job finished off before it goes back on the same rollers for some data. But by a seat of yer pants evaluation it pulls equally hard if not harder than before but with better low down.

Hi Dubber, it is from a guy in the UK, beautifully made, no clearance issues yet, well ever its all hooked up. I bought it here. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VW-MK2-Golf-GTi-16V-4-Branch...

Thanks for the advice on the brakes guys, sorry to detract thread.

[aka_kerrly]

answers to questions -
1) to the guy doing a 8- 16v conversion yes a 16v brake master cylinder is BIGGER on a 16v than a 8v ( 22mm vs 20mm) but the servo is the same.

The exhaust manifold in the picture looks like Hottuning ones, they sometimes require bit of modifying to get the final finish right so gaskets line up etc but aside from that are good an half price of supersprint ones.

You usually only have problems with 4 branches on mk2s with power steering and worn engine mounts. A solid front engine mount makes hige difference.

2)regarding the KR vs ABF cams... you can put ABF cams into a KR/9A/6A/PL/ADL basically any variation of the 1.8-2.0 16v engines and expect gains howerever if you put KR/9A etc cams into a ABF you are DOWNGRADING.

Altenatively there are firms in USA doing some good deals on cams and head parts - techtonronics (TT tuning) and four season tuning are good places to try as are Doherty racing - they do 268 cams for half the price of Shrick which are generally regarded as dam good!

[stocious]

Ok i got a 6a audi 80 quattro, 1992 solid bottom end but head is rattly, diagnosis of this is lifters/chain. anyway im not gona go and do them and put the crappy inlet cam back in.. sooo... be thinking about kr ones ok.. btw its a 2.0 16 valve 6a.. reason for kr ones is i know a guy who recently took out a kr from his gti so i guess i a few pints should cover what i need lol.. but on the flip side, the head number on the motor in the audi is 051, i know there are three types. i think that the 051 head is the abf head also... is the kr head better ?? should i just get the complete head from him and fit that with its original cams?? its a 137 bhp 101kw motor now, would this even do much for my motor. this in mind there is a whopper of an exhaust on this audi and im sure that the headers arnt that bad either.. its a sport quattro b3 if any1 knows more about them.. so in theory if she got a hotter cam/s, plus a very mildly ported kr head, plus the large bore exhaust plus sports backbox (allready fitted) should be worth it ?? theres also the possibility of fitting a 50mm intake manifold not sure if it will work because of way engine in mounted in audi ?? what else could i do?? this car isnt redlined around and wont be either.. the audi is very heavy and awd on top of that. all power that can be got from this motor in a sensible way will be done.. i can do all work its my trade so no problem there just dont know anything about vw/audis. another thing is say that i do all of the above mention mods, does the fuel system need adjustment.. new to k jet also. or if anyone can set me straight on what to do feel free.. the goal is power with reliability this car is driven daily.. thanks