TRUTH about reliability on newer V8 Esprit?
Discussion
Well Omey, having bought a new 2000 V8 and driven it for 2+ years I think I can safely comment on many aspects of the car....
First, the simple stuff.. from 1998 on, you have the newer interior and updated shifter and associated linkage (plus other goodies). Calling it "smoother" is probably more perceived than real... but overall a small improvement which helps.
None of the cars come stock with the high-torque ECM upgrade. From 1997-1999 the original ECMs are non high-torque but there is a p/n to upgrade them. The 2000-2001 model years received updated ECMs with the 1999 Sport 350 mappings... but this is NOT the high-torque ECM upgrade and there is a different p/n for the 2000-2001 high-torque ECM upgrade. The 2002-2003 cars have the same ECM mappings as 2000-2001 but currently there is no high-torque upgrade available for them.
As for reliability... I feel the engine is fine... no problems in 26K miles to date. However there are other problem areas which more than compensate for this.... gearbox is one area of concern but there are others.
The Esprit still suffers from a collection of bad quality parts sourced from other vendors.... the list includes, but is not limited to, exhaust systems, radiator, cooling fans, A/C components, hydraulics, clutch components and others plus poor workmanship is still the norm.
To date, I've had 4 exhaust systems replaced, two cooling fans, the radiator leaked (which I fixed as the dealer could not fit me in for 2+ weeks) 3 A/C compressors... A/C clutch, 3 sets of manifold pipes/seals, seat belt latch, 2 sets of lower suspension arm bushings (and the second new set is about wiped out), and one entire gearbox which was replaced with a rebuilt unit and it is now failing due to a defective clutch which was never diagnosed properly by the dealer. I finally realized this after driving a friends 1999 V8 and found shifting to be at least "two worlds" of magnitude better than mine has ever been. Also note that the axle shaft seals WILL leak... I've yet to see any that don't and both of the gearboxes in mine (new and rebuilt) leaked and are leaking now.
Other problem areas have included side-view mirrors coming loose and rattling, the water pump almost fell out as it was never torqued properly from new... and several coolant leaks again due to poor workmanship. The right rear suspension arm lost all of it's adjustment shims before 5K miles as it was not torqued properly as were numerous chassis and body mounting bolts creating lots of rattles and creaking. The left side engine heat-shield also cracked and needed replacement.
As for Redline MT-90... many owner's say wonderful things about it, but while Dave Simkin once told me it was fine to use he has changed his opinion and only endorses the Castrol TAF-X gearlube or Mobile SHC 630M. Problem is Castrol TAF-X is not available in the US and Mobil doesn't have a SHC-630M lube anymore (only SHC-630) so you may have issues finding a Lotus-approved gearlube in the US. The dealer has been using Mobil-1 Synthetic Gearlube which according to Dave Simkin is not correct, so there is much confusion surrounding gearbox lube and both this forum and the Turboesprit forum on Yahoo have hundreds of posts around this subject.
Now that my car has exited warranty, I'm stuck with a trashed gearbox and defective clutch and LCU has not been helpful. Even a call to Arni Johnson resulted in a call from Dave Simkin and zero follow-up in 2+ weeks now... so I guess I'm on my own to resolve two very expensive defective areas of manufacturing.
However... if you manage to get all of the bad parts and quirks worked out, the car should be quite reliable but you need to be careful with the gearbox as it is at it's limit with the V8... hence LCU's insistence on very specific gearlube to help minimize wear and premature damage/failure.
Driving the Esprit is what counts in the end, and once the little bits are resolved it rarely fails to impress. Also realize that the gearbox/clutch issues I've had are not the norm.... I just wish LCU would address these... after all, in 2 years my car did live at the dealership for 4+ weeks and received a fair amount of damage including paint scratches,all four wheels scored/scraped (and are now trashed as the dealer sent the car to a bunch of jokers who attempted to repair the damage) and two jack points were trashed in the process as well.
Probably the most annoying part of warranty service is the fact that everything requires 2 visits to the dealership at a minimum. Case in point.... bad exhaust systems... the pipe cracked and fell off. But I have to bring the car in, the dealer verifies that the pipe fell off and then orders the part(s) and you get to go back in another week or so. This has been the norm for any and all repairs to date. I figure at least 1000 miles are just running back and forth to the dealer for warranty work.
Sorry to have such a long post and a bit of venting... but this is the reality of the situation and some other new V8 owners have had other problems which have had their cars in the dealership for 2+ weeks while they attempt to repair things which are the result of defective parts and/or poor workmanship.
Regards, KM
2000 V8
PS - still love driving the car, but if I can't get the clutch/gearbox issues resolved it will most likely go on the selling block.
First, the simple stuff.. from 1998 on, you have the newer interior and updated shifter and associated linkage (plus other goodies). Calling it "smoother" is probably more perceived than real... but overall a small improvement which helps.
None of the cars come stock with the high-torque ECM upgrade. From 1997-1999 the original ECMs are non high-torque but there is a p/n to upgrade them. The 2000-2001 model years received updated ECMs with the 1999 Sport 350 mappings... but this is NOT the high-torque ECM upgrade and there is a different p/n for the 2000-2001 high-torque ECM upgrade. The 2002-2003 cars have the same ECM mappings as 2000-2001 but currently there is no high-torque upgrade available for them.
As for reliability... I feel the engine is fine... no problems in 26K miles to date. However there are other problem areas which more than compensate for this.... gearbox is one area of concern but there are others.
The Esprit still suffers from a collection of bad quality parts sourced from other vendors.... the list includes, but is not limited to, exhaust systems, radiator, cooling fans, A/C components, hydraulics, clutch components and others plus poor workmanship is still the norm.
To date, I've had 4 exhaust systems replaced, two cooling fans, the radiator leaked (which I fixed as the dealer could not fit me in for 2+ weeks) 3 A/C compressors... A/C clutch, 3 sets of manifold pipes/seals, seat belt latch, 2 sets of lower suspension arm bushings (and the second new set is about wiped out), and one entire gearbox which was replaced with a rebuilt unit and it is now failing due to a defective clutch which was never diagnosed properly by the dealer. I finally realized this after driving a friends 1999 V8 and found shifting to be at least "two worlds" of magnitude better than mine has ever been. Also note that the axle shaft seals WILL leak... I've yet to see any that don't and both of the gearboxes in mine (new and rebuilt) leaked and are leaking now.
Other problem areas have included side-view mirrors coming loose and rattling, the water pump almost fell out as it was never torqued properly from new... and several coolant leaks again due to poor workmanship. The right rear suspension arm lost all of it's adjustment shims before 5K miles as it was not torqued properly as were numerous chassis and body mounting bolts creating lots of rattles and creaking. The left side engine heat-shield also cracked and needed replacement.
As for Redline MT-90... many owner's say wonderful things about it, but while Dave Simkin once told me it was fine to use he has changed his opinion and only endorses the Castrol TAF-X gearlube or Mobile SHC 630M. Problem is Castrol TAF-X is not available in the US and Mobil doesn't have a SHC-630M lube anymore (only SHC-630) so you may have issues finding a Lotus-approved gearlube in the US. The dealer has been using Mobil-1 Synthetic Gearlube which according to Dave Simkin is not correct, so there is much confusion surrounding gearbox lube and both this forum and the Turboesprit forum on Yahoo have hundreds of posts around this subject.
Now that my car has exited warranty, I'm stuck with a trashed gearbox and defective clutch and LCU has not been helpful. Even a call to Arni Johnson resulted in a call from Dave Simkin and zero follow-up in 2+ weeks now... so I guess I'm on my own to resolve two very expensive defective areas of manufacturing.
However... if you manage to get all of the bad parts and quirks worked out, the car should be quite reliable but you need to be careful with the gearbox as it is at it's limit with the V8... hence LCU's insistence on very specific gearlube to help minimize wear and premature damage/failure.
Driving the Esprit is what counts in the end, and once the little bits are resolved it rarely fails to impress. Also realize that the gearbox/clutch issues I've had are not the norm.... I just wish LCU would address these... after all, in 2 years my car did live at the dealership for 4+ weeks and received a fair amount of damage including paint scratches,all four wheels scored/scraped (and are now trashed as the dealer sent the car to a bunch of jokers who attempted to repair the damage) and two jack points were trashed in the process as well.
Probably the most annoying part of warranty service is the fact that everything requires 2 visits to the dealership at a minimum. Case in point.... bad exhaust systems... the pipe cracked and fell off. But I have to bring the car in, the dealer verifies that the pipe fell off and then orders the part(s) and you get to go back in another week or so. This has been the norm for any and all repairs to date. I figure at least 1000 miles are just running back and forth to the dealer for warranty work.
Sorry to have such a long post and a bit of venting... but this is the reality of the situation and some other new V8 owners have had other problems which have had their cars in the dealership for 2+ weeks while they attempt to repair things which are the result of defective parts and/or poor workmanship.
Regards, KM
2000 V8
PS - still love driving the car, but if I can't get the clutch/gearbox issues resolved it will most likely go on the selling block.
Kmaier - Your post right there is exactly what makes me reconsider chasing the Lotus dream sometimes. IN a year I can muster up the finances for a 4cyl turbo model whether it be SE, S4 or S4s, but after reading that post and so many like it, I think sometimes it would be better to forget it all together and just get a Corvette or something. Of course GREATLY denying myself substance, but damn a Z06 has the performance and the same price rang. There is no comparing a Lotus to a Chevy, but you get the point.
What I dont understand is, how the HELL does something break twice. I mean, if the radiator fans go, then why didnt you replace it with an upgraded one? If the AC pump goes, who needs A/C, why didnt you just bypass it or upgrade it? If the Exhaust goes, why not just get a Tubi or something. I realize these parts when broken were under warranty, but by now you should replace them all.
NO offense to you whatsoever by the way. But im pissed to think that my dream car is a poorly crafted euro crap box that only brings smiles for a few miles and the rest of it would be wondering if the damn thing is going to start the next time you have a group of admirers surrounding you. Just really gets to me.
What I dont understand is, how the HELL does something break twice. I mean, if the radiator fans go, then why didnt you replace it with an upgraded one? If the AC pump goes, who needs A/C, why didnt you just bypass it or upgrade it? If the Exhaust goes, why not just get a Tubi or something. I realize these parts when broken were under warranty, but by now you should replace them all.
NO offense to you whatsoever by the way. But im pissed to think that my dream car is a poorly crafted euro crap box that only brings smiles for a few miles and the rest of it would be wondering if the damn thing is going to start the next time you have a group of admirers surrounding you. Just really gets to me.
My understanding is that the 4 cylinders are more reliable. Think out it:
The 910 has been around a lot longer than the V8
The 910 puts less stress on other components (clutch, gearbox) than the V8
The 910 will cost less to service since it is smaller and less complicated.
An SE-S4s will likely be well-sorted by the time you get to it since it will be 8+ years old.
Is my reasoning is flawed?
Luke.
The 910 has been around a lot longer than the V8
The 910 puts less stress on other components (clutch, gearbox) than the V8
The 910 will cost less to service since it is smaller and less complicated.
An SE-S4s will likely be well-sorted by the time you get to it since it will be 8+ years old.
Is my reasoning is flawed?
Luke.
Well, I can understand your concerns... but again, you need to understand how the Lotus is made. Lotus does the engineering and then sources common parts from other vendors to keep the overall cost down. Unfortunately some of the sourced parts are of questionable quality. Exhaust systems are a good example: They are made by Arvin who is probably the largest manufacturer of automotive exhausts in the world. Problem is Lotus only needs a couple hundred per year, so Arvin sets the line up quickly, throws some newbies on the line and bangs them out quickly to get rid of the "small job" so they can get back to mainline business. End result: poor workmanship and stress-welded systems which crack and fall apart. Same applies to the AC Compressor manifold/pipe assembly, the radiator, etc.
As for replacing them with better parts, it's not always that simple as you need to fabricate everything from scratch. Besides, I paid a high price for a "new" Esprit and should not have to spend thousands of dollars replacing the radiator and fans or the exhaust system with aftermarket components just because Lotus wound up with bad ones from their vendors. Also note that cobbling together your own replacement parts could easily affect your warranty. Besides... how hard is it to make a decent exhaust system? I drove a 1979 Ford Fiesta for 18 years and over 350K miles on the original exhaust, clutch/gearbox and engine with a small handful of problems.
All of the Esprits are not this problematic... but when they hand-build cars at a rate of one-per-week, you're going to have some variation in quality, etc. It's not a "euro crap box" but has some bad bits to it. I have plans to upgrade the entire exhaust and cooling system for starters... but I still feel LCU owes me a new gearbox and clutch... after all, this car ate the first gearbox in less than 14K miles to the point where metal chunks were coming out in the lube and shifting was virtually impossible. the rebuilt box is getting close to this now and LCU has gone cold on me.
Regards, KM
2000 V8
As for replacing them with better parts, it's not always that simple as you need to fabricate everything from scratch. Besides, I paid a high price for a "new" Esprit and should not have to spend thousands of dollars replacing the radiator and fans or the exhaust system with aftermarket components just because Lotus wound up with bad ones from their vendors. Also note that cobbling together your own replacement parts could easily affect your warranty. Besides... how hard is it to make a decent exhaust system? I drove a 1979 Ford Fiesta for 18 years and over 350K miles on the original exhaust, clutch/gearbox and engine with a small handful of problems.
All of the Esprits are not this problematic... but when they hand-build cars at a rate of one-per-week, you're going to have some variation in quality, etc. It's not a "euro crap box" but has some bad bits to it. I have plans to upgrade the entire exhaust and cooling system for starters... but I still feel LCU owes me a new gearbox and clutch... after all, this car ate the first gearbox in less than 14K miles to the point where metal chunks were coming out in the lube and shifting was virtually impossible. the rebuilt box is getting close to this now and LCU has gone cold on me.
Regards, KM
2000 V8
Tpup said:
With all due respect KM, why does Lotus owe you anything after your warranty period?
Roy
For the simple fact that they put defective components in the car during manfacture and improperly diagnosed the cause of the first gearbox failure which in turn is doing the same to the replacement gearbox. Would you have a reasonable explanation why they shouldn't fix it properly and cover it under warranty? Also, do you think it's fair to loose a month of warranty on a new car which is the result of being laid up in the shop waiting for parts for warranty repairs?
Regards, KM
2000 V8
Kmair - I definately understand your reasoning. I just get pissy sometimes at the fact that people have to lay out 90 grand and then have the problems you explained, it should be have to be that way.
Also, about you warranty, I for one agree with you, they damn well better replace your tranny/clutch, not only for the reasons you stated above, but also for the simple fact that the law states (no one knows this of course) that if you bring a product in for warranty work, and they dont fix it the frst time correctly, and the warranty expires, they are still liable to correct the problem until it is resolved. So I say bring it backand fight over it. A Gearbox isnt just some exhaust part, thats an easy 5 grand!
Also, about you warranty, I for one agree with you, they damn well better replace your tranny/clutch, not only for the reasons you stated above, but also for the simple fact that the law states (no one knows this of course) that if you bring a product in for warranty work, and they dont fix it the frst time correctly, and the warranty expires, they are still liable to correct the problem until it is resolved. So I say bring it backand fight over it. A Gearbox isnt just some exhaust part, thats an easy 5 grand!
I bought a 99 V8 about 10 months ago. I have since put about 20,000 miles on it. I have upgraded to the 450 hp chip. I removed the exhaust and had a local muffler shop run straight pipes from the cats on back. Even with the nice chrome tips it cost only $80.
I drive it hard. I drive it in rain, heat and occasionally snow. The ONLY problem I have had was with a defective soldering when the new chip was put in. Other than that, I change the fluids, put fuel in it, drive and smile from ear to ear.
I have NO leaks, the air conditioning works great and so does the heat. It doesn't squeak, rattle or fall apart.
I sympathize with anyone who gets a lemon, but I think the later model V8 are as good or better quality than anything out there.
I've known friends who have had bad experiences with Dodge, Chevy, Ferrari, Porsche, etc. Every maker will put a few duds on the market. The people who get these lemons naturally get a little soured on the entire brand.
If you get a good V8 you'll never regret it.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Dirk
I drive it hard. I drive it in rain, heat and occasionally snow. The ONLY problem I have had was with a defective soldering when the new chip was put in. Other than that, I change the fluids, put fuel in it, drive and smile from ear to ear.
I have NO leaks, the air conditioning works great and so does the heat. It doesn't squeak, rattle or fall apart.
I sympathize with anyone who gets a lemon, but I think the later model V8 are as good or better quality than anything out there.
I've known friends who have had bad experiences with Dodge, Chevy, Ferrari, Porsche, etc. Every maker will put a few duds on the market. The people who get these lemons naturally get a little soured on the entire brand.
If you get a good V8 you'll never regret it.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Dirk
>Mobil doesn't have a SHC-630M lube anymore (only SHC-630)
The SHC-630 is the same as the SHC-630M. Mobil just changed the part number. This from a list-member that called Mobile up and asked them. The SHC-630 is available at Graingers Supply via mail order or from their numerous stores across the country (US). I think I paid U$10/qt for mine.
Sorry you are having issues with you V8. LCU should fix the stuff that was not properly fixed under warranty, as the law requires. It may take a little lawyer work or suggestions thereof to get your tranny re-done, but you are going to stick to your guns there. Now that the warranty is out, you can fix the junk stuff like the fans and the exhaust with better parts, even if you do have to get them fabbed.
Dr.Hess
The SHC-630 is the same as the SHC-630M. Mobil just changed the part number. This from a list-member that called Mobile up and asked them. The SHC-630 is available at Graingers Supply via mail order or from their numerous stores across the country (US). I think I paid U$10/qt for mine.
Sorry you are having issues with you V8. LCU should fix the stuff that was not properly fixed under warranty, as the law requires. It may take a little lawyer work or suggestions thereof to get your tranny re-done, but you are going to stick to your guns there. Now that the warranty is out, you can fix the junk stuff like the fans and the exhaust with better parts, even if you do have to get them fabbed.
Dr.Hess
KM,
First off, I feel your pain. I'm sorry you are having the problem but we probably will not agree on this subject. I'll comment to your response below, not intended to argue the point, just offer another perspective.
"For the simple fact that they put defective components in the car during manufacture and improperly diagnosed the cause of the first gearbox failure which in turn is doing the same to the replacement gearbox."
I take issue with your claim that the gearbox included "defective components". There are more than a few Esprits out there that have not had gearbox issues. Lotus cannot tell if the problem is your driving style, the components, or something else. I know one guy here in Atlanta that put 35K miles on his 02 Esprit in less then 12 months with virtually no problems. Arnie and Dave will both tell you that they do see some trans failures but the % of failures against total cars sold are not out of line, especially if you take into account those trans that were trashed due to driving style.
According to your messages, your first problem showed up at 14K miles and now you are having another problem at 26K miles. I don’t understand how an “improper diagnoses” would contribute to your problem now. Did they replace the box (it sounded like they did from your message), or did they rebuild your box?
“Would you have a reasonable explanation why they shouldn't fix it properly and cover it under warranty?”
Yes, because your car is out of warranty. All manufacturers are bound by applicable Federal and State warranty laws. If they fix your car, out of warranty, then in some states they could be bound to fix other cars that are out of warranty as well. I frankly never understood the logic behind “Yes I understood I bought a product with a X year warranty but I’m entitled some something beyond that because of …”.
“Also, do you think it's fair to loose a month of warranty on a new car which is the result of being laid up in the shop waiting for parts for warranty repairs?”
That happens all the time to people regardless of brand of vehicle or product. I am not aware of any industry where your product warranty is extended due to time in the shop. Can you imagine the logistics of keeping track of millions of customers and when their warranty expires because their car was in for x days here and y days there?? The warranty says that if your product breaks in a X year period, we will fix it. It does not say we guarantee that you will have 2 years of uninterrupted service from your product…
As I stated above, I don’t think we will agree on this subject. The cost of the product is irrelevant imo; the product is sold with a X year warranty, period.
Roy
First off, I feel your pain. I'm sorry you are having the problem but we probably will not agree on this subject. I'll comment to your response below, not intended to argue the point, just offer another perspective.
"For the simple fact that they put defective components in the car during manufacture and improperly diagnosed the cause of the first gearbox failure which in turn is doing the same to the replacement gearbox."
I take issue with your claim that the gearbox included "defective components". There are more than a few Esprits out there that have not had gearbox issues. Lotus cannot tell if the problem is your driving style, the components, or something else. I know one guy here in Atlanta that put 35K miles on his 02 Esprit in less then 12 months with virtually no problems. Arnie and Dave will both tell you that they do see some trans failures but the % of failures against total cars sold are not out of line, especially if you take into account those trans that were trashed due to driving style.
According to your messages, your first problem showed up at 14K miles and now you are having another problem at 26K miles. I don’t understand how an “improper diagnoses” would contribute to your problem now. Did they replace the box (it sounded like they did from your message), or did they rebuild your box?
“Would you have a reasonable explanation why they shouldn't fix it properly and cover it under warranty?”
Yes, because your car is out of warranty. All manufacturers are bound by applicable Federal and State warranty laws. If they fix your car, out of warranty, then in some states they could be bound to fix other cars that are out of warranty as well. I frankly never understood the logic behind “Yes I understood I bought a product with a X year warranty but I’m entitled some something beyond that because of …”.
“Also, do you think it's fair to loose a month of warranty on a new car which is the result of being laid up in the shop waiting for parts for warranty repairs?”
That happens all the time to people regardless of brand of vehicle or product. I am not aware of any industry where your product warranty is extended due to time in the shop. Can you imagine the logistics of keeping track of millions of customers and when their warranty expires because their car was in for x days here and y days there?? The warranty says that if your product breaks in a X year period, we will fix it. It does not say we guarantee that you will have 2 years of uninterrupted service from your product…
As I stated above, I don’t think we will agree on this subject. The cost of the product is irrelevant imo; the product is sold with a X year warranty, period.
Roy
A bit shocked to hear about this underconfidence in the V8 Esprit. 
Firstly, I can confirm the 4 cyclinder (particularly the S4s) is renowned as the most reliable version as it completes the 910 story.
I can agree early V8's had major engine issues that were not seen in the (short) prototyping phase. I can't agree that the more recent V8 cars should have these issues like this.
Not wishing to accuse, there may be a driving style issue if the box got chewed in the first few tousand kms.
The clutch should usually go first, but the cogs should be okay as the 918 TT engine is detuned to the same output as a tuned up 910.
The presence of the turbos is what prematurely wears an otherwise good and reliable geartrain in either the 910 or the 918. This means you have to drive more gently when bringing in the boost.
As for the electrics, well, each person has their own experience, but yes, brace yourself for problems as the parts Lotus use are from the bottom end of the everyday car market. That wouldn't be too bad as standards in that market have risen in the last decade as competion from Japanese relaibles has upped the game. BUT, Lotus' parts are actually from cars from an age where dinosaurs were still being tested for their driving licenses
. ie the 70's/80's.
Some bits have been updated to early 90's bits. But the stuff you don't see, like what Kaimer is talking about can be a problem.
He is also right that the exhaust stuff is naff. Most owners upgrade this as soon as it falls off on the motorway and redecorates the car of the following driver.
The thing about owning a Lotus is that you have to educate yourself more than the average supercar buyer. You will have to know your car, and learn to fix these things that do go wrong from time to time. If you can handle that, then you'll enjoy owning a Lotus more than any other car. If you can't the Corvette might be better.
Problem is where you have to replace parts that Lotus also charges stupidly high amounts for. For that, I think they do owe us.
Nicholas
Firstly, I can confirm the 4 cyclinder (particularly the S4s) is renowned as the most reliable version as it completes the 910 story.
I can agree early V8's had major engine issues that were not seen in the (short) prototyping phase. I can't agree that the more recent V8 cars should have these issues like this.
Not wishing to accuse, there may be a driving style issue if the box got chewed in the first few tousand kms.
The clutch should usually go first, but the cogs should be okay as the 918 TT engine is detuned to the same output as a tuned up 910.
The presence of the turbos is what prematurely wears an otherwise good and reliable geartrain in either the 910 or the 918. This means you have to drive more gently when bringing in the boost.
As for the electrics, well, each person has their own experience, but yes, brace yourself for problems as the parts Lotus use are from the bottom end of the everyday car market. That wouldn't be too bad as standards in that market have risen in the last decade as competion from Japanese relaibles has upped the game. BUT, Lotus' parts are actually from cars from an age where dinosaurs were still being tested for their driving licenses
. ie the 70's/80's. Some bits have been updated to early 90's bits. But the stuff you don't see, like what Kaimer is talking about can be a problem.
He is also right that the exhaust stuff is naff. Most owners upgrade this as soon as it falls off on the motorway and redecorates the car of the following driver.
The thing about owning a Lotus is that you have to educate yourself more than the average supercar buyer. You will have to know your car, and learn to fix these things that do go wrong from time to time. If you can handle that, then you'll enjoy owning a Lotus more than any other car. If you can't the Corvette might be better.
Problem is where you have to replace parts that Lotus also charges stupidly high amounts for. For that, I think they do owe us.
Nicholas
Roy, et al,
True, we will probably disagree on this issue. However, I said there were defective components used during manufacture. I did NOT say the gearbox or it's internal components were defective. It turns out the clutch is defective. This in turn is creating drag and churning up the synchros in the gearbox and once they are worn down, the shinier metal bits start grinding. The dealer diagnosed the problem as a worn out gearbox and replaced it with a remanufactured one (not a new one). Since the original cause of the problem still exists the same fate awaits the new gearbox and with almost 26K miles (11K on the new box) it too is exhibiting the same problem as the original did at 13K. So I don't feel the dealer has performed the repair properly.
Also, I seriously doubt my driving style could possibly be the cause. I've been driving nothing but manual-shift cars for 30 years and the Lotus is the ONLY vehicle that has ever given me gearbox/clutch issues. I have literally driven vehicles well over 100K miles on the original clutch and gearbox without a hint of trouble. I recently drove a friend's 1999 V8 and the difference in shifting between the two was dramatic to say the least. This confirms that my car has a defect. I also noted to the dealer and Dave Simkin (LCU tech) that the gearbox lube is loaded with synchro dust in less than 3000 miles. During my last phone call with Dave, he also suggested the clutch is intermittantly binding or has some excessive drag. He said he would call back after he talked to one of the drivetrain engineers but hasn't (I know he's quite busy).
So, I am inclined to think that LCU should consider fixing the problem. I would also argue your point in this case as exhaust systems are known junk... using your logic, the dealer would continue to replace one defective part with another until the warranty period has expired and then leave you hanging the next day with yet another defective part and tell you they're going to charge you supremely to get another defective one. You really think this is proper warranty service?? Note that it took 4 seperate repairs to fix the A/C and 4 tries to get one good exhaust.... and in each case they kept replacing the same parts again and again.
But hey... at the end of the day we're all entitled to feel how we like about things. Either way, I'll have to manage a repair unless I relegate the car to garage queen status... in which case it's completely useless to me.
Regards, KM
2000 V8
True, we will probably disagree on this issue. However, I said there were defective components used during manufacture. I did NOT say the gearbox or it's internal components were defective. It turns out the clutch is defective. This in turn is creating drag and churning up the synchros in the gearbox and once they are worn down, the shinier metal bits start grinding. The dealer diagnosed the problem as a worn out gearbox and replaced it with a remanufactured one (not a new one). Since the original cause of the problem still exists the same fate awaits the new gearbox and with almost 26K miles (11K on the new box) it too is exhibiting the same problem as the original did at 13K. So I don't feel the dealer has performed the repair properly.
Also, I seriously doubt my driving style could possibly be the cause. I've been driving nothing but manual-shift cars for 30 years and the Lotus is the ONLY vehicle that has ever given me gearbox/clutch issues. I have literally driven vehicles well over 100K miles on the original clutch and gearbox without a hint of trouble. I recently drove a friend's 1999 V8 and the difference in shifting between the two was dramatic to say the least. This confirms that my car has a defect. I also noted to the dealer and Dave Simkin (LCU tech) that the gearbox lube is loaded with synchro dust in less than 3000 miles. During my last phone call with Dave, he also suggested the clutch is intermittantly binding or has some excessive drag. He said he would call back after he talked to one of the drivetrain engineers but hasn't (I know he's quite busy).
So, I am inclined to think that LCU should consider fixing the problem. I would also argue your point in this case as exhaust systems are known junk... using your logic, the dealer would continue to replace one defective part with another until the warranty period has expired and then leave you hanging the next day with yet another defective part and tell you they're going to charge you supremely to get another defective one. You really think this is proper warranty service?? Note that it took 4 seperate repairs to fix the A/C and 4 tries to get one good exhaust.... and in each case they kept replacing the same parts again and again.
But hey... at the end of the day we're all entitled to feel how we like about things. Either way, I'll have to manage a repair unless I relegate the car to garage queen status... in which case it's completely useless to me.
Regards, KM
2000 V8
For what its worth, a good friend has a 98 V8GT as a regular driver. Its driven very hard to be honest, and it is no stranger to track days and regular oversteery activity !
In more than 20,000 miles it has never missed a beat. No problems with clutch or gearbox. The exhaust split early on but it was replaced with a sports item and has been problem free since.
The car is, in fact, so reliable that I know he is lost to decide what to replace it with. He cannot find anything that matches the car to be honest.
Like most cars, it seems happiest to be used rather than be a garage queen.
The only criticism? Apparently the standard brakes are'nt up to extended track work..
I am a 911 driver personally, but the Esprit just blows me away. I would have one but being 6'4" I cannot fit in the thing comfortably enough for anymore than an hour...
In more than 20,000 miles it has never missed a beat. No problems with clutch or gearbox. The exhaust split early on but it was replaced with a sports item and has been problem free since.
The car is, in fact, so reliable that I know he is lost to decide what to replace it with. He cannot find anything that matches the car to be honest.
Like most cars, it seems happiest to be used rather than be a garage queen.
The only criticism? Apparently the standard brakes are'nt up to extended track work..
I am a 911 driver personally, but the Esprit just blows me away. I would have one but being 6'4" I cannot fit in the thing comfortably enough for anymore than an hour...
Well gents,
This has been an interesting exchange. For the record, I will say that I still love my Esprit and have no plans to change to something else. Driving the car makes all the problems fade to the back of your mind (until the shifting acts up again).
My car simply had a combination of some defective parts and some poor assembly. When I step back and consider everything.... the Lotus-made bits have been fine. Zero problems with the motor, brakes, suspension, chassis, body, interior stuff, steering, electrical, etc. In short, everything I've had problems with are parts Lotus sources from other vendors.
At this point, the only problem with my Esprit is the bad shifting. The V8 uses an AP Racing twin-plate clutch. These are excellent units and should last a long time (just ask Rob E.). Anyone can get some bad parts... it just happens. Mine is a combination of that and some dealer-induced issues that has soured the experience a bit.
I plan on working with LCU to hopefully resolve the gearbox/clutch issue and once this is done I fully expect the Esprit to be very solid and for a very long time.
If I were to sum up everything that I personally feel should be updated or replaced on the Esprit V8, the list is:
- Radiator and fans (and add fans for the oil coolers)
- Headlights - HID upgrades (already done)
- Horns (they are fine for Grandad's Buick, but...)
- Driving lights - HID upgrade needed
- Steering wheel - a Raid unit hopefully soon
- Exhaust - from the turbos back a Stainless replacement
- Add a filter/cooler to the gearbox
- Replace the diff with limited-slip unit (Lotus or Quaife)
- ITG or K&N air filters (already done)
- Add intercoolers for better engine life
- A gearbox upgrade would be nice (Derek Bell's would be fine)
Beyond this, just over-maintain the car and it should give years of smiles daily.
Finally, I hope I did not put anyone off from future Esprit ownership. All things considered it's undoubtedly the best bargain in exotics anywhere. It's required service is a fraction of others (both frequency and cost) and the performance is tough to equal much less better. And of course, the driving experience is in itself unique and unequalled by most anything else out there. And finally, it's one of the few exotics that can be maintained and serviced by a competent mechanic without a huge investment in special tools.
Regards, KM
2000 V8
This has been an interesting exchange. For the record, I will say that I still love my Esprit and have no plans to change to something else. Driving the car makes all the problems fade to the back of your mind (until the shifting acts up again).
My car simply had a combination of some defective parts and some poor assembly. When I step back and consider everything.... the Lotus-made bits have been fine. Zero problems with the motor, brakes, suspension, chassis, body, interior stuff, steering, electrical, etc. In short, everything I've had problems with are parts Lotus sources from other vendors.
At this point, the only problem with my Esprit is the bad shifting. The V8 uses an AP Racing twin-plate clutch. These are excellent units and should last a long time (just ask Rob E.). Anyone can get some bad parts... it just happens. Mine is a combination of that and some dealer-induced issues that has soured the experience a bit.
I plan on working with LCU to hopefully resolve the gearbox/clutch issue and once this is done I fully expect the Esprit to be very solid and for a very long time.
If I were to sum up everything that I personally feel should be updated or replaced on the Esprit V8, the list is:
- Radiator and fans (and add fans for the oil coolers)
- Headlights - HID upgrades (already done)
- Horns (they are fine for Grandad's Buick, but...)
- Driving lights - HID upgrade needed
- Steering wheel - a Raid unit hopefully soon
- Exhaust - from the turbos back a Stainless replacement
- Add a filter/cooler to the gearbox
- Replace the diff with limited-slip unit (Lotus or Quaife)
- ITG or K&N air filters (already done)
- Add intercoolers for better engine life
- A gearbox upgrade would be nice (Derek Bell's would be fine)
Beyond this, just over-maintain the car and it should give years of smiles daily.
Finally, I hope I did not put anyone off from future Esprit ownership. All things considered it's undoubtedly the best bargain in exotics anywhere. It's required service is a fraction of others (both frequency and cost) and the performance is tough to equal much less better. And of course, the driving experience is in itself unique and unequalled by most anything else out there. And finally, it's one of the few exotics that can be maintained and serviced by a competent mechanic without a huge investment in special tools.
Regards, KM
2000 V8
OmeyHomey said:Interesting that you had so many problems with a '95 M3, which are regarded as nearly bulletproof (some of the very early ones had valve keeper problems IIRC). People put tens of thousands of track miles on them and the minor trouble points are well known. I think you're due for some good luck with your next car purchase.
About warranty, Is there such thing as an official Lotus extended warranty? If I get a Lotus I want it to be under warranty b/c Im a true believe in warranties after my BMW M3 went ballistic and decided to rake up $24k in warranty payments (yes the price of the car). EVERYTHING that could have gone wrong in my 95 M3 did, so do you think i would be a good fit for Lotus reliability as being used to that kind of stuff? I REALLY REALLY appreciate your honest. I'm doing my homework as best I can so i know exactly what I'm getting into.
>Dr. Hess - Is that SHC-630 stuff anygood? is it really better than Redline MT90. if so, how?
Well, the shop manual is _real_ specific about _only_ useing the SHC-630. A lot of people use the MT90 and report better shifting. Personally, I use it in one of my Toyota Trucks, and it really did smooth out the shifting. It only has a quarter million miles on it. I bought the SHC-630 at Graingers for the Esprit. I am rather new to Esprit ownership, having bought the car this past April. I had some service records and the PO had the C service done at a major west coast Lotus repair place. I don't know what oil they used, but the stuff that came out smelled just like regular gear oil, and not like what the SHC-630 smells like. It was in for about 15K miles. I had been experiencing the typical clunky 2nd gear shifts. I put in the SHC-630 and it seems to shift better to me. So, personally, I will stick with the recommended oil until I have a problem, then go with the Redline products to put off a rebuild.
Dr.Hess
Well, the shop manual is _real_ specific about _only_ useing the SHC-630. A lot of people use the MT90 and report better shifting. Personally, I use it in one of my Toyota Trucks, and it really did smooth out the shifting. It only has a quarter million miles on it. I bought the SHC-630 at Graingers for the Esprit. I am rather new to Esprit ownership, having bought the car this past April. I had some service records and the PO had the C service done at a major west coast Lotus repair place. I don't know what oil they used, but the stuff that came out smelled just like regular gear oil, and not like what the SHC-630 smells like. It was in for about 15K miles. I had been experiencing the typical clunky 2nd gear shifts. I put in the SHC-630 and it seems to shift better to me. So, personally, I will stick with the recommended oil until I have a problem, then go with the Redline products to put off a rebuild.
Dr.Hess
OmeyHomey said:
Kmaier - I appreciate your honesty and it did slightly make me more caucious of what it means to be a Lotus owner. Here are the problems that I am commonly seeing coming up and the possible solutions I think might work...
Exhaust - just upgrade full exhaust to save headache and pains
Transmission - just upgrade to MT90 and call it a day
Pedals - get the adjustable pedals to help my big ass feet
I like your upgrade list, how much did the K&N filters help (I know they add like 6HP but how does it FEEL different?)
Mikey ride - well alot of the 95 M3's are, but I think I honestly just got very unlucky. It was a blast to drive but it honestly was in the shop more than most Esprits COMBINED. there would be months at a time where i would not have the car. it just got really annoying. alot of my problems were due to improper mods and etc and I've learned my lesson with modding: Don't overkill, its always bad. anyways thanks again
Dr. Hess - well isnt the point of oil to prevent the damage from occuring in the first place, so why not just get the redline MT90 to begin with? just curious,
thanks for help guys!
Well Omey, I would disagree on the MT-90... I found the Mobil-1 Gearlube 75W/90 to be a bit better. I also have advice from Derek Bell on not using the Redline lube in the Renault box but stick with the Mobil SHC lubes. Lotus now says the same... so I'll be switching to SHC 630 this weekend.
As for the K&N, Les Twiggs in the UK has both the ITG oiled foam (which I'm currently using) and the K&N available at reasonable prices and will ship to the US reasonably as well. What you notice the most is extra "whoosh" from the turbo intakes.... doubtful on much increase in power but would prefer to reset the ECM fully after the switch.
The exhaust failures seem limited to the muffler assembly so a Tubi or one from Marcus should suffice unless you have a cat failure... then Marcus sells some nice upgraded ones (but expensive).
Not sure if the pedals are going to help much... all you're doing is moving pads back and forth. The physical pedal itself stays in the same place.
Regards, KM
2000 V8
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