How do I register a new frame (different VIN) on my bike????
Discussion
So I bought a Ducati 750SS which a chap has turned into a street fighter… my plan is to turn it into a retro Café Racer style machine. He’s done a lot of work on the bike but the frame is junk. It’s probably had one too many wheelies in its time and the head has had it. I have the V5 and everything and that’s cool.
He was using the stock frame as a mock up and had another spare frame powder coated to build the bike around.
The only thing is he bought the spare frame from a Ducati breaker many moons ago. He doesn’t have the log book.
My questions are:
- How can I register the frame with the new VIN on my current machine? Can I do this?
- Do I need to find the registration (V5) for the new frame and use that? How as I don’t have a vehicle Registration number to go by ???
- How do I check the frame is legit, it was an expensive purchase? I don’t want to build a bike up and discover the frame is not legit.
Thoughts and advice appreciated.
He was using the stock frame as a mock up and had another spare frame powder coated to build the bike around.
The only thing is he bought the spare frame from a Ducati breaker many moons ago. He doesn’t have the log book.
My questions are:
- How can I register the frame with the new VIN on my current machine? Can I do this?
- Do I need to find the registration (V5) for the new frame and use that? How as I don’t have a vehicle Registration number to go by ???
- How do I check the frame is legit, it was an expensive purchase? I don’t want to build a bike up and discover the frame is not legit.
Thoughts and advice appreciated.
My understanding from 10 years ago or so when a friend did this, is that the VIN+ frame it's on and registration number ARE the vehicle. You can change the engine number, but not the VIN if you want to retain the registration number. I think potentially getting a Q plate was in the mix too as a solution.
Don't know for certain that this is still the case, but in the end, he ended up restamping the donor frame with the knackered old frame details - which was dodgy as hell (effectively 'ringing', even though he owned the both the bikes), but kept the license plate and history of the original bike, once it was rebuilt.
Don't know for certain that this is still the case, but in the end, he ended up restamping the donor frame with the knackered old frame details - which was dodgy as hell (effectively 'ringing', even though he owned the both the bikes), but kept the license plate and history of the original bike, once it was rebuilt.
3doorPete said:
My understanding from 10 years ago or so when a friend did this, is that the VIN+ frame it's on and registration number ARE the vehicle. You can change the engine number, but not the VIN if you want to retain the registration number. I think potentially getting a Q plate was in the mix too as a solution.
This was my understanding too, although not based on anything other than ‘gut feel’ as I’ve never had to/tried to do this.This is what I thought.
I am wondering if I can supply the VIN to the DVLA and see if they can come up with anything. I am slightly worried that the spare frame may be borrowed.
Hmmnn I may just put it on my Garage wall as a ornament.
Or Perhaps the best thing to do is buy a new frame, with a V5.
I am wondering if I can supply the VIN to the DVLA and see if they can come up with anything. I am slightly worried that the spare frame may be borrowed.
Hmmnn I may just put it on my Garage wall as a ornament.
Or Perhaps the best thing to do is buy a new frame, with a V5.
Edited by Renn Sport on Monday 19th October 14:42
Renn Sport said:
This is what I thought.
I am wondering if I can supply the VIN to the DVLA and see if they can come up with anything. I am slightly worried that the spare frame may be borrowed.
Hmmnn I may just put it on my Garage wall as a ornament.
Or Perhaps the best thing to do is buy a new frame, with a V5.
If you have bought a "borrowed" frame it is your duty to inform the police. Some poor sod has had his pride and joy stolen and the thieves have made a profit from his suffering. I have no time for people like that and they deserve kick in the balls for being scum bags. (the theives not you) I am wondering if I can supply the VIN to the DVLA and see if they can come up with anything. I am slightly worried that the spare frame may be borrowed.
Hmmnn I may just put it on my Garage wall as a ornament.
Or Perhaps the best thing to do is buy a new frame, with a V5.
Edited by Renn Sport on Monday 19th October 14:42
So what happens in the event of a manufacturer supplying a new frame under warranty? I know that some Ducati SS models had a problem with cracking around the headstock and Ducati supplied replacement frames in theses cases, is the bike re-registered with a new frame number or can the new frame be numbered identically to the old one?
I think the DVLA gives different "points" for components of a vehicle. If the frame has changed but all the other components are the same they used to allow you to keep the same reg no.
Used to work at a dealer and when a relateively new bike was crashed and a new frame was required (and it was economical to do so) we used to switch frames and then stamp the new (un-numbered) one with the original number. Suzuki GB used to insist on proof of the destruction of the old one (send them cut off headstock), other manufacturers less so which can be handy when repairing other bikes / racebikes
In your situation I would either repair the old frame (almost anything is possble with steel frames, especially with a spare frame for doner parts) or use the suspicious one with some thick powder coating and transfer the rivettted VIN plate.
Telling the Police genaerally means you lose the bike and the thieves have long gone.
Used to work at a dealer and when a relateively new bike was crashed and a new frame was required (and it was economical to do so) we used to switch frames and then stamp the new (un-numbered) one with the original number. Suzuki GB used to insist on proof of the destruction of the old one (send them cut off headstock), other manufacturers less so which can be handy when repairing other bikes / racebikes
In your situation I would either repair the old frame (almost anything is possble with steel frames, especially with a spare frame for doner parts) or use the suspicious one with some thick powder coating and transfer the rivettted VIN plate.
Telling the Police genaerally means you lose the bike and the thieves have long gone.
When I am back in blighty I have decided to contact the DVLA and supply the VIN number to them as see what they have to say.
If its stolen then I'll hand the frame over. Simple as that.
Otherwise I am going to try to follow the process of re-registering the bike with the spare frame, using the DVLA registration process.
The spare frame was beutifully powder coated and the etched VIN was covered by it. I chipped it off to double check.. shame I had to but better I know now then later on.
Thanks guys.
If its stolen then I'll hand the frame over. Simple as that.
Otherwise I am going to try to follow the process of re-registering the bike with the spare frame, using the DVLA registration process.
The spare frame was beutifully powder coated and the etched VIN was covered by it. I chipped it off to double check.. shame I had to but better I know now then later on.
Thanks guys.
bmw used to supply new frames with no vin number so the old one could be stamped onto it so restamping is not always a no no .a friend also had a cbr600 fj that had been reframed in the first year of its life and had no number at all ! i ended up restamping in a completely different location to standard as it was not mot able without one .
Edited by bimsb6 on Tuesday 20th October 19:41
a pre-registered frame will have a registration number the DVLA can trace & that is the identity of the bike build into it.
a new replacement frame can have the original number stamped into it to preserve the identity of the bike.
personally i'd apply for the V5 for the new frame to prove its legit, then splat the number with weld & stamp the old frame's number on it to keep the history.
a new replacement frame can have the original number stamped into it to preserve the identity of the bike.
personally i'd apply for the V5 for the new frame to prove its legit, then splat the number with weld & stamp the old frame's number on it to keep the history.
Ok good and not so good news.
I gave the DVLA the VIN number of the used spare frame.
Then they said I need to do this:
[B] Motorcycles must use an unmodified frame (original or new) and two other major components from the original vehicle as listed below:
• forks
• wheels
• engine/gearbox
If a second-hand frame is used the vehicle must pass a Motorcycle Single Vehicle Approval (MSVA) test after which a 'Q' prefix registration number will be allocated. [/B]
So good news. Frame is not nicked as it would come up right away!
Bad news 1. They are not gonna give me the V5 so I can rebuild the bike.
Bad news 2. I have to build the bike get a MoT and then get a MSVA and then get a bloody ‘Q’ plate! This is not something I would like, I don’t want a bloody Q plate. The bike won’t be a ‘bitsa’. It’s a stripped Ducati Café racer.
Choice 1. Accept the Q plate in the spring when the bike is built.
Choice 2. Smooth off the frame and re-stamp it with the old VIN.
What do you think chaps? This bike is a keeper when its done.
I gave the DVLA the VIN number of the used spare frame.
Then they said I need to do this:
[B] Motorcycles must use an unmodified frame (original or new) and two other major components from the original vehicle as listed below:
• forks
• wheels
• engine/gearbox
If a second-hand frame is used the vehicle must pass a Motorcycle Single Vehicle Approval (MSVA) test after which a 'Q' prefix registration number will be allocated. [/B]
So good news. Frame is not nicked as it would come up right away!
Bad news 1. They are not gonna give me the V5 so I can rebuild the bike.
Bad news 2. I have to build the bike get a MoT and then get a MSVA and then get a bloody ‘Q’ plate! This is not something I would like, I don’t want a bloody Q plate. The bike won’t be a ‘bitsa’. It’s a stripped Ducati Café racer.
Choice 1. Accept the Q plate in the spring when the bike is built.
Choice 2. Smooth off the frame and re-stamp it with the old VIN.
What do you think chaps? This bike is a keeper when its done.
ks to the dvla Ultimately, if you own both, you are not hurting anyone by re-stamping, merely, falling foul of a law that is primarily there to protect the history of a bike and prevent ringing.
If you choose to re-stamp, I don't recommend publicising that decision on a public forum. I'd also double check the frame has never been smart watered or data tagged as if you restamped, you might have some explaining to do if the frame is tagged with another's details!!
As stated above by another poster, there is little you can't do with steel, so maybe able to weld on the good parts. Cutting a steel frame and welding is no biggy as long as it is done properly - many choppers are built that way.
Personally I'd re-stamp :-D
If you choose to re-stamp, I don't recommend publicising that decision on a public forum. I'd also double check the frame has never been smart watered or data tagged as if you restamped, you might have some explaining to do if the frame is tagged with another's details!!
As stated above by another poster, there is little you can't do with steel, so maybe able to weld on the good parts. Cutting a steel frame and welding is no biggy as long as it is done properly - many choppers are built that way.
Personally I'd re-stamp :-D
As a kit car owner this is not a unique problem. If you get a new frame (or build your own, or modify an existing) you can stamp it with any number you like. I use my wifes vital stats on mine. Your problem is the extra cost of the DVLA test & current legislation. You may find your new bike does not comply. The trouble with using the old bikes identity is the end product may not be what the V5 states. Again there are many kit cars with a log book saying VW Beatle & a car looking like a Lambogini. However if its curently a Ducati & staying as a Ducati, just stamp the new frame to the same ID as the old. If the new frame already has a number you can weld a plate over the top & restamp it. This is legal & I have been instructed by the DVLA to do it before.
Renn Sport said:
Ok good and not so good news.
I gave the DVLA the VIN number of the used spare frame.
Then they said I need to do this:
[B] Motorcycles must use an unmodified frame (original or new) and two other major components from the original vehicle as listed below:
• forks
• wheels
• engine/gearbox
If a second-hand frame is used the vehicle must pass a Motorcycle Single Vehicle Approval (MSVA) test after which a 'Q' prefix registration number will be allocated. [/B]
So good news. Frame is not nicked as it would come up right away!
Bad news 1. They are not gonna give me the V5 so I can rebuild the bike.
Bad news 2. I have to build the bike get a MoT and then get a MSVA and then get a bloody ‘Q’ plate! This is not something I would like, I don’t want a bloody Q plate. The bike won’t be a ‘bitsa’. It’s a stripped Ducati Café racer.
Choice 1. Accept the Q plate in the spring when the bike is built.
Choice 2. Smooth off the frame and re-stamp it with the old VIN.
Its looking like a re-stamp!I gave the DVLA the VIN number of the used spare frame.
Then they said I need to do this:
[B] Motorcycles must use an unmodified frame (original or new) and two other major components from the original vehicle as listed below:
• forks
• wheels
• engine/gearbox
If a second-hand frame is used the vehicle must pass a Motorcycle Single Vehicle Approval (MSVA) test after which a 'Q' prefix registration number will be allocated. [/B]
So good news. Frame is not nicked as it would come up right away!
Bad news 1. They are not gonna give me the V5 so I can rebuild the bike.
Bad news 2. I have to build the bike get a MoT and then get a MSVA and then get a bloody ‘Q’ plate! This is not something I would like, I don’t want a bloody Q plate. The bike won’t be a ‘bitsa’. It’s a stripped Ducati Café racer.
Choice 1. Accept the Q plate in the spring when the bike is built.
Choice 2. Smooth off the frame and re-stamp it with the old VIN.
Couple of things to try before you go down that route. If DVLA gave you the reg no. of the good frame you could just apply for the V5 - £19 or so from your local Post Office. If they didn't tell you then you could ask a (slightly dodgy!) copper to do a PNC check on the frame no. get the reg no. for it and then apply for the V5 is the same way.
I'm still unsure why the first frame is scrap? If its from "too many wheelies" then is what you're saying is that the frame is bent or is the headstock ovalled? Both can be solved - frame straighteners (such as Maidstone Motoliner) can tweak the frame back to where it should be and then weld up any cracks that have appeared and an engineering shop can machine out an ovalled headstock and fit an oversized bearing. You might use this as an opportunity to fit some funkier forks and yolks off another bike - rather than cocking about pressing the steering stems in and out you can fit the appropriate bearings instead - just an idea!
P.S. Be aware that some straighteners have problems "pushing" a headstock back in as the frame can shorten (hello correct headstock angle and the tank doesn't fit!), most are much more experienced at "pulling" frames i.e impact damage to the front wheel / forks has steepened the headstock angle not lengthened it as a wheelie damaged bike might have experienced.
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