DSG gearbox experiences
Discussion
Would anyone who owns a Volkswagen Audi Group car (preferably diesel), fitted with the DSG gearbox, care to share their thoughts and experiences?
'Tis approaching the time when I've got to start thinking about a replacement company car. I'm thinking of another Octavia VRs estate (boring, I know, but being a tight-fisted Yorkshireman, I hate the idea of paying large amounts of extra tax for the privilege of a more prestigious badge on a less practical car, just for my employer's benefit).
Question is, do I stick with the manual box that I know and love, or do I give the DSG a go, for novelty value (bearing in mind that I'll probably end up running the thing for 80K miles, so the novelty might wear thin if it's not actually any good)?
'Tis approaching the time when I've got to start thinking about a replacement company car. I'm thinking of another Octavia VRs estate (boring, I know, but being a tight-fisted Yorkshireman, I hate the idea of paying large amounts of extra tax for the privilege of a more prestigious badge on a less practical car, just for my employer's benefit).
Question is, do I stick with the manual box that I know and love, or do I give the DSG a go, for novelty value (bearing in mind that I'll probably end up running the thing for 80K miles, so the novelty might wear thin if it's not actually any good)?
A quick low down on my experience with a DSG gearbox on a non cooking car (VW Touran TDI 140PS DSG):
Very very smooth, changes are impressively smooth under power, but prone to wrong footedness at times when you want a different gear to what the car reckons it needs and finding a balance when pulling off or reversing the clutch 'banging in' can be annoying.
It makes sense around town, better than a normal auto certainly, but MPG is affected and ultimately it doesn't give you anything an normal auto doesn't.
In a larger engined car I hazard it'd be ideal, it can swap cogs quicker than you can, however, when in 'manual' it is annoying - the gearbox upside down, and a pain to drive quickly with - you have no way of engine braking in the way that you can accurately with a normal clutch.
If it were me:
Tootle about town and motoways - do it.
Something you want fun in? Don't.
Very very smooth, changes are impressively smooth under power, but prone to wrong footedness at times when you want a different gear to what the car reckons it needs and finding a balance when pulling off or reversing the clutch 'banging in' can be annoying.
It makes sense around town, better than a normal auto certainly, but MPG is affected and ultimately it doesn't give you anything an normal auto doesn't.
In a larger engined car I hazard it'd be ideal, it can swap cogs quicker than you can, however, when in 'manual' it is annoying - the gearbox upside down, and a pain to drive quickly with - you have no way of engine braking in the way that you can accurately with a normal clutch.
If it were me:
Tootle about town and motoways - do it.
Something you want fun in? Don't.
jamoor said:
mcford said:
You'll have to factor in gearbox fluid changes every 40,000 miles at around £200 a time.
Sweet lord! What do they put in it?Racefan_uk said:
jamoor said:
mcford said:
You'll have to factor in gearbox fluid changes every 40,000 miles at around £200 a time.
Sweet lord! What do they put in it?
People really do get hung up about silly little things when calculating running costs. Whilst £200 in a lump for a payment hurts, and needs budgetting for for most people, it's fuggall over the ownership period of the car, and the mileage.
mat205125 said:
Racefan_uk said:
jamoor said:
mcford said:
You'll have to factor in gearbox fluid changes every 40,000 miles at around £200 a time.
Sweet lord! What do they put in it?People really do get hung up about silly little things when calculating running costs. Whilst £200 in a lump for a payment hurts, and needs budgetting for for most people, it's fuggall over the ownership period of the car, and the mileage.
jamoor said:
Why not test drive them?
I will, but there's a world of difference between a half hour test drive and spending 80,000 miles with the thing. Hence I was hoping for comments from people who've lived with one, day in, day out, for a while.Maintenance costs aren't a factor (neither is fuel consumption, for what it's worth); it's a company car, so they're paid for. Similarly, reliability is only an issue if it becomes a serious pain in the arse having to take it to the dealership every other week.
neil_bolton said:
Very very smooth, changes are impressively smooth under power, but prone to wrong footedness at times when you want a different gear to what the car reckons it needs and finding a balance when pulling off or reversing the clutch 'banging in' can be annoying.
It makes sense around town, better than a normal auto certainly, but MPG is affected and ultimately it doesn't give you anything an normal auto doesn't.
In a larger engined car I hazard it'd be ideal, it can swap cogs quicker than you can, however, when in 'manual' it is annoying - the gearbox upside down, and a pain to drive quickly with - you have no way of engine braking in the way that you can accurately with a normal clutch.
If it were me:
Tootle about town and motoways - do it.
Something you want fun in? Don't.
This is the sort of opinion I find valuable - thanks! It makes sense around town, better than a normal auto certainly, but MPG is affected and ultimately it doesn't give you anything an normal auto doesn't.
In a larger engined car I hazard it'd be ideal, it can swap cogs quicker than you can, however, when in 'manual' it is annoying - the gearbox upside down, and a pain to drive quickly with - you have no way of engine braking in the way that you can accurately with a normal clutch.
If it were me:
Tootle about town and motoways - do it.
Something you want fun in? Don't.
I don't do much town driving. Lots of motorway stuff, and lots of rural roads. The hope was that the 'auto' mode would make the motorway stuff less of a chore, whilst the 'manual' mode would be fun on the back roads.
One of the things I like about my current manual Octavia is that the pedals are about the best I've encountered for heel-and-toe wearing my normal size tens, so I was hoping that the manual mode would be good enough to compensate for the loss... sounds like it's not that transparent to use, then?
I don't know that the lack of engine braking would bother me - I match revs or H&T down the box anyway; I don't like using the clutch to slow myself down. Does the DSG auto-blip the throttle effectively to simulate rev matching, in manual mode, or does it sometimes get that wrong as well?
I recently had two Mk5 golf Gti's (petrol 200bhp models) one was a DSG and one was 6 speed manual.
It was my first DSG equiped car and interesting to compare the 2 together.
My first thoughts were how brilliant DSG is and how much better it is than old style autos. At that point I would have recommended DSG to anyone, even over a manual.
However when the 2nd car came in (manual) exactly the same model just not with DSG I was able to really compare like with like; and concluded if it came down to it I'd keep the manual version.
DSG much better than traditional auto so if you must have an auto then go for it.
Downsides (and why I'd keep a manual)
can be quite jerky in low speed down changes
can be quite jerky in stop start traffic
in auto mode it always changes up far too early, you'd find yourself 2 gears higher than you'd choose yourself (ok for mpg but not good for instant response)
when driven hard I dont think it was as good as the manual (which is superb on the Mk5 gti) in particular down changes and its still an auto so using the gears plus the brakes to slow it down not as good as with a manual.
Dont want to make it sound bad, as compared to old style auto's DSG is superb, revolutionary almost, but still not as good as a good manual.
Drive one of each and see what you prefer.
Not aware of any reliability issues with the vw DSG's mainstream modesl either.
It was my first DSG equiped car and interesting to compare the 2 together.
My first thoughts were how brilliant DSG is and how much better it is than old style autos. At that point I would have recommended DSG to anyone, even over a manual.
However when the 2nd car came in (manual) exactly the same model just not with DSG I was able to really compare like with like; and concluded if it came down to it I'd keep the manual version.
DSG much better than traditional auto so if you must have an auto then go for it.
Downsides (and why I'd keep a manual)
can be quite jerky in low speed down changes
can be quite jerky in stop start traffic
in auto mode it always changes up far too early, you'd find yourself 2 gears higher than you'd choose yourself (ok for mpg but not good for instant response)
when driven hard I dont think it was as good as the manual (which is superb on the Mk5 gti) in particular down changes and its still an auto so using the gears plus the brakes to slow it down not as good as with a manual.
Dont want to make it sound bad, as compared to old style auto's DSG is superb, revolutionary almost, but still not as good as a good manual.
Drive one of each and see what you prefer.
Not aware of any reliability issues with the vw DSG's mainstream modesl either.
jamoor said:
Still though, the oil usually costs around £2 a litre.
Yeah righto genius! Its the stuff straight out of Asda aint it. Same stuff you can run your lawnmower on.... yet another PHer who knows it all, but knows f
k all! Carry on 
It's quite a long winded process to change the oil/filter. For the others here, thats the main part of the cost
neil_bolton said:
A quick low down on my experience with a DSG gearbox on a non cooking car (VW Touran TDI 140PS DSG):
Very very smooth, changes are impressively smooth under power, but prone to wrong footedness at times when you want a different gear to what the car reckons it needs and finding a balance when pulling off or reversing the clutch 'banging in' can be annoying.
It makes sense around town, better than a normal auto certainly, but MPG is affected and ultimately it doesn't give you anything an normal auto doesn't.
In a larger engined car I hazard it'd be ideal, it can swap cogs quicker than you can, however, when in 'manual' it is annoying - the gearbox upside down, and a pain to drive quickly with - you have no way of engine braking in the way that you can accurately with a normal clutch.
If it were me:
Tootle about town and motoways - do it.
Something you want fun in? Don't.
The reason the clutch "bangs in" into reverse is because the driver is not letting the box stop going forward before selecting reverse. It's the same in a regular band type Auto. Im sure many have discovered that little fact and adjusted their driving accordingly. DSG also creeps which is helpful. Very very smooth, changes are impressively smooth under power, but prone to wrong footedness at times when you want a different gear to what the car reckons it needs and finding a balance when pulling off or reversing the clutch 'banging in' can be annoying.
It makes sense around town, better than a normal auto certainly, but MPG is affected and ultimately it doesn't give you anything an normal auto doesn't.
In a larger engined car I hazard it'd be ideal, it can swap cogs quicker than you can, however, when in 'manual' it is annoying - the gearbox upside down, and a pain to drive quickly with - you have no way of engine braking in the way that you can accurately with a normal clutch.
If it were me:
Tootle about town and motoways - do it.
Something you want fun in? Don't.
Wrong footed. Driven an awful lot of these over the years. The GTi / R32 seems better to be in the right gear. He's roght about push forard to go up when in "tiptronic" mode. Also bear in mind not all DSGs have paddles. Which is far more intuiutve
Rich_W said:
jamoor said:
Still though, the oil usually costs around £2 a litre.
Yeah righto genius! Its the stuff straight out of Asda aint it. Same stuff you can run your lawnmower on.... yet another PHer who knows it all, but knows fk all! Carry on It's quite a long winded process to change the oil/filter. For the others here, thats the main part of the cost
neil_bolton said:
A quick low down on my experience with a DSG gearbox on a non cooking car (VW Touran TDI 140PS DSG):
Very very smooth, changes are impressively smooth under power, but prone to wrong footedness at times when you want a different gear to what the car reckons it needs and finding a balance when pulling off or reversing the clutch 'banging in' can be annoying.
It makes sense around town, better than a normal auto certainly, but MPG is affected and ultimately it doesn't give you anything an normal auto doesn't.
In a larger engined car I hazard it'd be ideal, it can swap cogs quicker than you can, however, when in 'manual' it is annoying - the gearbox upside down, and a pain to drive quickly with - you have no way of engine braking in the way that you can accurately with a normal clutch.
If it were me:
Tootle about town and motoways - do it.
Something you want fun in? Don't.
The reason the clutch "bangs in" into reverse is because the driver is not letting the box stop going forward before selecting reverse. It's the same in a regular band type Auto. Im sure many have discovered that little fact and adjusted their driving accordingly. DSG also creeps which is helpful. Very very smooth, changes are impressively smooth under power, but prone to wrong footedness at times when you want a different gear to what the car reckons it needs and finding a balance when pulling off or reversing the clutch 'banging in' can be annoying.
It makes sense around town, better than a normal auto certainly, but MPG is affected and ultimately it doesn't give you anything an normal auto doesn't.
In a larger engined car I hazard it'd be ideal, it can swap cogs quicker than you can, however, when in 'manual' it is annoying - the gearbox upside down, and a pain to drive quickly with - you have no way of engine braking in the way that you can accurately with a normal clutch.
If it were me:
Tootle about town and motoways - do it.
Something you want fun in? Don't.
Wrong footed. Driven an awful lot of these over the years. The GTi / R32 seems better to be in the right gear. He's roght about push forard to go up when in "tiptronic" mode. Also bear in mind not all DSGs have paddles. Which is far more intuiutve
It does look a little bit of hassle though to change.
http://www.mkv-gti.net/wiki/index.php?title=How_to...
Rich_W said:
jamoor said:
Still though, the oil usually costs around £2 a litre.
Yeah righto genius! Its the stuff straight out of Asda aint it. Same stuff you can run your lawnmower on.... yet another PHer who knows it all, but knows fk all! Carry on It's quite a long winded process to change the oil/filter. For the others here, thats the main part of the cost
neil_bolton said:
A quick low down on my experience with a DSG gearbox on a non cooking car (VW Touran TDI 140PS DSG):
Very very smooth, changes are impressively smooth under power, but prone to wrong footedness at times when you want a different gear to what the car reckons it needs and finding a balance when pulling off or reversing the clutch 'banging in' can be annoying.
It makes sense around town, better than a normal auto certainly, but MPG is affected and ultimately it doesn't give you anything an normal auto doesn't.
In a larger engined car I hazard it'd be ideal, it can swap cogs quicker than you can, however, when in 'manual' it is annoying - the gearbox upside down, and a pain to drive quickly with - you have no way of engine braking in the way that you can accurately with a normal clutch.
If it were me:
Tootle about town and motoways - do it.
Something you want fun in? Don't.
The reason the clutch "bangs in" into reverse is because the driver is not letting the box stop going forward before selecting reverse. It's the same in a regular band type Auto. Im sure many have discovered that little fact and adjusted their driving accordingly. DSG also creeps which is helpful. Very very smooth, changes are impressively smooth under power, but prone to wrong footedness at times when you want a different gear to what the car reckons it needs and finding a balance when pulling off or reversing the clutch 'banging in' can be annoying.
It makes sense around town, better than a normal auto certainly, but MPG is affected and ultimately it doesn't give you anything an normal auto doesn't.
In a larger engined car I hazard it'd be ideal, it can swap cogs quicker than you can, however, when in 'manual' it is annoying - the gearbox upside down, and a pain to drive quickly with - you have no way of engine braking in the way that you can accurately with a normal clutch.
If it were me:
Tootle about town and motoways - do it.
Something you want fun in? Don't.
Wrong footed. Driven an awful lot of these over the years. The GTi / R32 seems better to be in the right gear. He's roght about push forard to go up when in "tiptronic" mode. Also bear in mind not all DSGs have paddles. Which is far more intuiutve
My girlfriend tried to drive the car, tried to pull away (she's driven autos' before) and spent 2 minutes complaining it wouldn't go. It turned out she wasn't putting her foot enough on the gas, and not for long enough - you have to sort of 'trust' the thing to engage it's drive.
The creep in traffic is useful, but can be a pain too - you have to hold it on the brake which is not ideal for it's life (I understand at least) and pop it into N - and you end up farting about waiting to get it in gear and pulling away. But that's no different to an Auto.
Overall in traffic its quite easy and relaxing to drive - but I'll agree with the gear choices - although thats down to the gearbox learning your driving style - put it in S for Sport and it'll hold the gears for longer and give you more engine braking - but even then you find yourself in the wrong gears.
I did find that with the TDi engine it could be a bit heart in mouth when overtaking - it would take a while to figure out what gear you wanted before taking off - which when you're low on power, thats vital time. I'm sure that a software upgrade could change that, and that in the GTI and R32 cars it is less of an issue with a different engine that is more powerful and tractable.
You get used to it though, but whether it's worth the extra outlay is up to you - lots of motorway and town work, yes, but B roads? I'd have a manual every day.
ETA: I've had no issues with my Touran with the DSG gearbox, although I have had the infamous ABS unit go on it, but luckily replace FOC on warranty (phew! as they're £1600 I hear).
I had a DSG in my Octy II 140bhp 2.0TDi. Fine on the open road, not so good round town.
As others have said, I found it floundered in start/stop traffic causing harsh changes at best, and at worst it would be in the wrong gear for quick nip and tuck driving round a busy city.
Maybe too much technology for its own good. I'm now back to a normal auto box and loving it.
As others have said, I found it floundered in start/stop traffic causing harsh changes at best, and at worst it would be in the wrong gear for quick nip and tuck driving round a busy city.
Maybe too much technology for its own good. I'm now back to a normal auto box and loving it.
I had one (Golf TDi without paddles) for a long weekend of mixed driving. It's a hugely clever piece of kit, but IMO it's a bit hamstrung by the need to make it react like a normal auto.
Round town it was smooth for me in auto mode, giving it gentle throttle and letting it change up early seemed to work well.
Out on the road I did start with it in manual but quickly figured that it was a bit pointless 99% of the time. The box was able to time the shifts better than I could (although I guess this would be better with practice) and provided you poked the accelerator to the floor a split second before you needed the kickdown (about the sort of time delay you used to get on old turbodiesels before it spooled up, so not insurmountable) overtaking was never an issue.
Manual mode does provide full engine braking, so the "feel" of the car was a lot like a manual on trailing throttle. Using the auto shifter wasn't ideal but it was still a decent drive. It also makes nice blipping noises when you're pushing on. If I was getting a company car for commuting I would try and get a DSG one, but if I was buying for me I'd want a car I can fluff downshifts on.
Round town it was smooth for me in auto mode, giving it gentle throttle and letting it change up early seemed to work well.
Out on the road I did start with it in manual but quickly figured that it was a bit pointless 99% of the time. The box was able to time the shifts better than I could (although I guess this would be better with practice) and provided you poked the accelerator to the floor a split second before you needed the kickdown (about the sort of time delay you used to get on old turbodiesels before it spooled up, so not insurmountable) overtaking was never an issue.
Manual mode does provide full engine braking, so the "feel" of the car was a lot like a manual on trailing throttle. Using the auto shifter wasn't ideal but it was still a decent drive. It also makes nice blipping noises when you're pushing on. If I was getting a company car for commuting I would try and get a DSG one, but if I was buying for me I'd want a car I can fluff downshifts on.
neil_bolton said:
Rich_W said:
jamoor said:
Still though, the oil usually costs around £2 a litre.
Yeah righto genius! Its the stuff straight out of Asda aint it. Same stuff you can run your lawnmower on.... yet another PHer who knows it all, but knows fk all! Carry on It's quite a long winded process to change the oil/filter. For the others here, thats the main part of the cost
neil_bolton said:
A quick low down on my experience with a DSG gearbox on a non cooking car (VW Touran TDI 140PS DSG):
Very very smooth, changes are impressively smooth under power, but prone to wrong footedness at times when you want a different gear to what the car reckons it needs and finding a balance when pulling off or reversing the clutch 'banging in' can be annoying.
It makes sense around town, better than a normal auto certainly, but MPG is affected and ultimately it doesn't give you anything an normal auto doesn't.
In a larger engined car I hazard it'd be ideal, it can swap cogs quicker than you can, however, when in 'manual' it is annoying - the gearbox upside down, and a pain to drive quickly with - you have no way of engine braking in the way that you can accurately with a normal clutch.
If it were me:
Tootle about town and motoways - do it.
Something you want fun in? Don't.
The reason the clutch "bangs in" into reverse is because the driver is not letting the box stop going forward before selecting reverse. It's the same in a regular band type Auto. Im sure many have discovered that little fact and adjusted their driving accordingly. DSG also creeps which is helpful. Very very smooth, changes are impressively smooth under power, but prone to wrong footedness at times when you want a different gear to what the car reckons it needs and finding a balance when pulling off or reversing the clutch 'banging in' can be annoying.
It makes sense around town, better than a normal auto certainly, but MPG is affected and ultimately it doesn't give you anything an normal auto doesn't.
In a larger engined car I hazard it'd be ideal, it can swap cogs quicker than you can, however, when in 'manual' it is annoying - the gearbox upside down, and a pain to drive quickly with - you have no way of engine braking in the way that you can accurately with a normal clutch.
If it were me:
Tootle about town and motoways - do it.
Something you want fun in? Don't.
Wrong footed. Driven an awful lot of these over the years. The GTi / R32 seems better to be in the right gear. He's roght about push forard to go up when in "tiptronic" mode. Also bear in mind not all DSGs have paddles. Which is far more intuiutve
My girlfriend tried to drive the car, tried to pull away (she's driven autos' before) and spent 2 minutes complaining it wouldn't go. It turned out she wasn't putting her foot enough on the gas, and not for long enough - you have to sort of 'trust' the thing to engage it's drive.
The creep in traffic is useful, but can be a pain too - you have to hold it on the brake which is not ideal for it's life (I understand at least) and pop it into N - and you end up farting about waiting to get it in gear and pulling away. But that's no different to an Auto.
My biggest issue is that it had virtually no ability to creep in either forward or reverse, like a conventional auto does, as its clutches were either engaged or disengaged and power was therefore delivered in an 'all or nothing' manner. Reverse parking on an incline was an absolute nightmare as, if you just feathered the throttle expecting it to creep back, the car would roll forward (!!) and once you applied enough throttle for the clutch to engage you found yourself shooting back at full pelt.
Every roundabout approach was annoying because it would change down unnecessarily, i.e. into 2nd when you would happily stay in 3rd, or 1st when you would change into 2nd. This is fine in an R32 but hearing the 4-pot PD TDI at 2500-3500rpm whenever you pulled away got rediculously tedious. I would often put it in manual mode just to override this.
Also with this DSG equipped car I averaged 37-38mpg and struggled to get much more than 40 on a run, a mate of mine with a similarly specced manual Touran was getting 50mpg on runs. So I'm not convinced that it uses no more fuel than a manual.
I had VW investigate the box several times and they always said it was perfectly normal... so within 6 months of ownership I got rid... now she has an X3 with the 6-speed conventional auto and it is literally a hundred times better than the DSG box in just about every scenario. As is the 5-speed conventional auto on my old E39.
I run an Audi A3 2.0 TDI 140 with paddle shift. I think it's a great match to the engine - I use the car round town, high speed motorway, cross country and have used it to tow my race car as well. Granted the creep is a bit weak compared to torque converter automatics, but I have never put the car in neutral at traffic lights - I understand the clutch disengages when you are on the brakes, when you release the brakes, the clutch re-engages. You just have to adapt to it - if you come in too sharp on the throttle it will thump when get going, but you get used to easing the accelerator in a little more.
99% of the time I let the box do the work - i think it keeps the engine ticking in the best bit of the torque curve - I am sure it does a better job than me, and changes up before the engine hits the noisy end of the rev band - I only use the paddles on v twisties, need for engine braking or to drop a cog to overtake.
That said, if I had a petrol, I would get a manual.
99% of the time I let the box do the work - i think it keeps the engine ticking in the best bit of the torque curve - I am sure it does a better job than me, and changes up before the engine hits the noisy end of the rev band - I only use the paddles on v twisties, need for engine braking or to drop a cog to overtake.
That said, if I had a petrol, I would get a manual.
Golf GTi DSG. Takes a bit of getting used to as it likes to go to a high gear wherever possible (economy and emmissions I suppose). But, this means it is eager to change down if you give it too much pedal to accelerate. Not a problem, but can result in screaming the engine when you really wanted something more subtle. Its a fantastic system though. Very very smooth changes - you forget all about it. No lurching on changes if accelerating hard. Encourages being smooth and light on the pedal as well which is no bad thing. Think for an oil burner it would be ideal.
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