Cam timeing ??
Discussion
Mr Urbalizer has been going on about the "can timeing" mods and as my engine is coming out and going to be remapped i just wondered if any of the "boys in the know" could explain to me what is done , is the cam re-profiled or do they move the cams around another tooth on the belt ? just trying to get it right in my head thats all .
p.s did a search but there seems to be very little mention of it .
p.s did a search but there seems to be very little mention of it .
TuxMan said:
Mr Urbalizer has been going on about the "can timeing" mods and as my engine is coming out and going to be remapped i just wondered if any of the "boys in the know" could explain to me what is done , is the cam re-profiled or do they move the cams around another tooth on the belt ? just trying to get it right in my head thats all .
p.s did a search but there seems to be very little mention of it .
Just time it up correctly Simon, you'll be fine.p.s did a search but there seems to be very little mention of it .
Mike.
Edited by Mike Tuckwood on Friday 6th November 17:34
TuxMan said:
Gadgeroonie said:
adjusting the cam timing is simple - retard the exhaust cam by one tooth !
thats how the m400's were done
thats how the m400's were done
realy ???? thats it ?? ...........must be more to it than that ??
I think its the other way round, the 3R's had retarded exhaust cam timing by one tooth and the M400's did not, that's why the M400 rev through further than the 3R's
JLSELAN said:
No cam timing changes have proven to be necessary (or desirable) for U.S. tunes that are quite adequate, thank you 
.
.Can't really compare as the US engines are a different spec and built by different engine builders. They may not run retarded cam timing at all in either car.(I think the only difference they have is the turbo size, from reading their forum ?)
JLSELAN said:
No cam timing changes have proven to be necessary (or desirable) for U.S. tunes that are quite adequate, thank you .
Ye thats the bonus of a US car, you have good installers over there that sort these problems before they even get on the road, you also get a proper full strength ECU map, we brits have to sort it all out after market .There is a story behind the weak maps in the UK, and the cam timing restriction but i will leave that for another day
It is just a simple mod, you may lose mid range torque, without the mod the torque rises rapidly to 4000rpm then starts to level off, with the mod, the torque line keeps steadily rising to high revs, you end up with a smoother power curve that results in more high end power, so as a driver you get smoother acceleration, and at around 5500rpm you can expect the car have around 20 more torques to play with.
You need a good mapper to take advantage of this mod properly, i would recommend Darren if in midlands or north, or Trevor if down south.
What other work are you having done Tuxman? this mod works well with dual exhaust/fuel pump upgrade as the factory exhaust creates another restriction, but do not expect any massive increase in red line, as the valves start to float(not close properly) at high rpm due to weak valve springs, optimal gear change would be at about 6000-6200rpm, if you want to put in stronger valve spring kit, it is easier and cheaper to sort this at same time as cam timing.
You need a good mapper to take advantage of this mod properly, i would recommend Darren if in midlands or north, or Trevor if down south.
What other work are you having done Tuxman? this mod works well with dual exhaust/fuel pump upgrade as the factory exhaust creates another restriction, but do not expect any massive increase in red line, as the valves start to float(not close properly) at high rpm due to weak valve springs, optimal gear change would be at about 6000-6200rpm, if you want to put in stronger valve spring kit, it is easier and cheaper to sort this at same time as cam timing.
Urbalizer said:
It is just a simple mod, you may lose mid range torque, without the mod the torque rises rapidly to 4000rpm then starts to level off, with the mod, the torque line keeps steadily rising to high revs, you end up with a smoother power curve that results in more high end power, so as a driver you get smoother acceleration, and at around 5500rpm you can expect the car have around 20 more torques to play with.
You need a good mapper to take advantage of this mod properly, i would recommend Darren if in midlands or north, or Trevor if down south.
What other work are you having done Tuxman? this mod works well with dual exhaust/fuel pump upgrade as the factory exhaust creates another restriction, but do not expect any massive increase in red line, as the valves start to float(not close properly) at high rpm due to weak valve springs, optimal gear change would be at about 6000-6200rpm, if you want to put in stronger valve spring kit, it is easier and cheaper to sort this at same time as cam timing.
Lots off stuff done.......lots to do !!!! hopefully in the end it will have the performance of my old Ultima .........but with a better chasis .
You need a good mapper to take advantage of this mod properly, i would recommend Darren if in midlands or north, or Trevor if down south.
What other work are you having done Tuxman? this mod works well with dual exhaust/fuel pump upgrade as the factory exhaust creates another restriction, but do not expect any massive increase in red line, as the valves start to float(not close properly) at high rpm due to weak valve springs, optimal gear change would be at about 6000-6200rpm, if you want to put in stronger valve spring kit, it is easier and cheaper to sort this at same time as cam timing.
Lots off stuff done.......lots to do !!!! hopefully in the end it will have the performance of my old Ultima .........but with a better chasis .
Jenx said:
TuxMan said:
hopefully in the end it will have the performance of my old Ultima .........but with a better chasis .
I hope so...had an Ult for 2 weeks ( on loan from a mate ) and after an hours driving I couldn't wait to get out to calm my janggling nerves.
know what you mean Jenx !!! try spending 55k on one then driving it to le-mans !!! Urbalizer said:
It is just a simple mod, you may lose mid range torque, without the mod the torque rises rapidly to 4000rpm then starts to level off, with the mod, the torque line keeps steadily rising to high revs, you end up with a smoother power curve that results in more high end power, so as a driver you get smoother acceleration, and at around 5500rpm you can expect the car have around 20 more torques to play with.
You need a good mapper to take advantage of this mod properly, i would recommend Darren if in midlands or north, or Trevor if down south.
What other work are you having done Tuxman? this mod works well with dual exhaust/fuel pump upgrade as the factory exhaust creates another restriction, but do not expect any massive increase in red line, as the valves start to float(not close properly) at high rpm due to weak valve springs, optimal gear change would be at about 6000-6200rpm, if you want to put in stronger valve spring kit, it is easier and cheaper to sort this at same time as cam timing.
Are you sure abut this, Advancing or retarding the cam timing is just going to move the power band up and down, can the person who told you this provide a graph showing power output V rpm at different timings.
You need a good mapper to take advantage of this mod properly, i would recommend Darren if in midlands or north, or Trevor if down south.
What other work are you having done Tuxman? this mod works well with dual exhaust/fuel pump upgrade as the factory exhaust creates another restriction, but do not expect any massive increase in red line, as the valves start to float(not close properly) at high rpm due to weak valve springs, optimal gear change would be at about 6000-6200rpm, if you want to put in stronger valve spring kit, it is easier and cheaper to sort this at same time as cam timing.
Are you sure abut this, Advancing or retarding the cam timing is just going to move the power band up and down, can the person who told you this provide a graph showing power output V rpm at different timings.
Jenx said:
TuxMan said:
hopefully in the end it will have the performance of my old Ultima .........but with a better chasis .
I hope so...had an Ult for 2 weeks ( on loan from a mate ) and after an hours driving I couldn't wait to get out to calm my janggling nerves.Must look Simon up as I havnt spoken to him for ages.
ThatPhilBrettGuy said:
Gadgeroonie said:
adjusting the cam timing is simple - retard the exhaust cam by one tooth !
thats how the m400's were done
I seem to remember Yellowshed saying that wasn't the case. All cam timings were the same.thats how the m400's were done
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