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jackal

Original Poster:

10,828 posts

169 months

[news] 
Wednesday 18th November 2009 quote quote all
is it true what they say.... will it swap 2 lanes when running over an expansion joint ?

has anyone had a 996 GT2 centre-of-gravtied ? did it help ?

how hard is the ride compared to a 96 Gt3 ?

robmug

1,044 posts

150 months

[news] 
Wednesday 18th November 2009 quote quote all
shout Calling Slippydiff!

SpeedYellow

2,529 posts

114 months

[news] 
Wednesday 18th November 2009 quote quote all
Nope all myths, with the geo set (Porsche didn't do a great job here, from the factory they dialed in lots of safe understeer, however when you pushed though it, the oversteer was a little snappy and difficult to catch).

Setup properly, they are a match for GT3 in handling terms (owned all of them and tracked etc. and spent a couple of weeks in the Alps with a group of cars so not just an opinion!) but more technical to drive as there is still some lag to think about if you let the revs drop or SO much grunt if you are up in the rec range.

robmug

1,044 posts

150 months

[news] 
Wednesday 18th November 2009 quote quote all
I should add...

GT2/3 have so much adjustability i the suspension that any car if it is badly set up will display all sorts of bad handling characteristics.

Set up well, with the level of adjustability, these cars can be set to handle however you want, expecially if you want a road-biased or track-biased setup.

The downside of a heavily track-biased setup is that it is normally close to undriveable on roads, expecially bumpy B roads.

welshnobby

1,200 posts

130 months

[news] 
Wednesday 18th November 2009 quote quote all
Mostly utter tosh. I have had mine fettled by Chris at Centre Gravity and it is very predictable and safe. Obviously within reason, if you drive like a tit it will rip your head off and st down your neck. Chris set mine up for fast road and it has made a big difference. Much of this was down to the rear springs sagging by 10mm causing excessive toe out which became extreme toe out under heavy acceleration as the rear squatted. This did make it feel like the rear was doing the steering. I think you would be very wise to build a few hundred quid into a budget and get it straight to Chris. You may need to consider new dampers if they are past their best. Anyway, mine is a keeper, it is that sort of car, ticks all the right boxes.
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jackal

Original Poster:

10,828 posts

169 months

[news] 
Wednesday 18th November 2009 quote quote all
thanks guys

similar info to what im getting on rennlist
they also seem to state there that the car is significantly more precise than the turbo and the suspension is actually a tad softer than the GT3

i love the idea of all that power just to the rear with no electronics... like having say 300bhp in a caterham

also loved this quote from a US road test:


"The GT2 is not an unsafe car, but it is not a car for an unsafe driver." wobble

SpeedYellow

2,529 posts

114 months

[news] 
Wednesday 18th November 2009 quote quote all
You should come for a ride in mine sometime... it's very silly fast now..

fbrs

9,290 posts

150 months

[news] 
Wednesday 18th November 2009 quote quote all
welshnobby said:
if you drive like a tit it will rip your head off
hehe

jackal

Original Poster:

10,828 posts

169 months

[news] 
Wednesday 18th November 2009 quote quote all
I gather they ae lighter than the TT

obviously the balance will be different but do they feel 'light' or nimble as it were, like a GT3 ?
or are they a big heavy brute

i find the gearchange and steering effort of the GT3 very light to the touch.. is the GT2 the same in this respect ?

SpeedYellow

2,529 posts

114 months

[news] 
Wednesday 18th November 2009 quote quote all
When setup right they feel very similar (more so to the 997GT3 RS) the wide body being the difference, but remember the difference in weight is only a tank of fuel between the two. As with everything down to the driver.

But small feel difference between GT2 on GT3 (except obvious turbolag/power difference) and a massive difference to the turbo.

jackal

Original Poster:

10,828 posts

169 months

[news] 
Wednesday 18th November 2009 quote quote all
SpeedYellow said:
from the factory they dialed in lots of safe understeer, however when you pushed though it, the oversteer was a little snappy and difficult to catch.
thanks for that, makes perfect sense

& that's exactly how evo described the car in their Giant 911 test....

and also, Harris says teh same here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4heInf8p84

jackal

Original Poster:

10,828 posts

169 months

[news] 
Wednesday 18th November 2009 quote quote all
SpeedYellow said:
But small feel difference between GT2 on GT3.
thanks SY

not driven a turbo but driven GT3s + rs so at least I know roughly how she will 'feel' control wise, disregarding the power delivery of course

fbrs

9,290 posts

150 months

[news] 
Wednesday 18th November 2009 quote quote all
jackal said:
SpeedYellow said:
But small feel difference between GT2 on GT3.
thanks SY

not driven a turbo but driven GT3s + rs so at least I know roughly how she will 'feel' control wise, disregarding the power delivery of course
isn't a common mod for gt2's to stick on gt3rs control arm or something? essentially means you can set it up exactly the same as the rs?

996GT2

2,367 posts

97 months

[news] 
Wednesday 18th November 2009 quote quote all
jackal said:
they also seem to state there that the car is significantly more precise than the turbo and the suspension is actually a tad softer than the GT3
Did 15,000 miles in mine on factory settings/hardware and that's how I'd describe it. Having been in 996 GT3/RSs I can say that the suspension in mine was definately softer, but very hard compared to most other cars.

The turn-in always felt very light and precise in mine, I had a few moments where the back stepped out when I wasn't ready but in general there is biblical grip from the 315s and it's not that easy to unsettle unless you're trying. I experienced the snap oversteer many times in a controlled environment and it's a case of when it's gone it's gone, forget about catching it - if that happens on the road you're hedgebound.

It's a car that's worth owning in your lifetime, one to tick off. Mine's at RSJ for sensible money if you're after one, all original just higher mileage than others.



Slippydiff

6,501 posts

110 months

[news] 
Wednesday 18th November 2009 quote quote all
jackal said:
is it true what they say.... will it swap 2 lanes when running over an expansion joint ?
With less than optimal geo settings and two brand new (and thus unscrubbed) Michelin PS2 rear tyres, yes definitely !! yikes

jackal said:
has anyone had a 996 GT2 centre-of-gravtied ? did it help ?


Yes, massively.

jackal said:
how hard is the ride compared to a 96 Gt3 ?


For the road or track use ?

For road use I'd say it's harder and less compliant than that of my Mk1 996 GT3 (for an indepth explanation see below) for track use, no it's just fine (in my very limited experience)

For my GT2 geometry experiences see this thread (for the record, this is how Chris at CG came onto most Porsche owners radar screens originally) smile

http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0...

Having finally got mine set up properly, I rapidly discovered the shortcomings of the standard suspension and its geo settings (Useless on bumpy roads and armfulls of understeer at higher speeds with bog standard 2004 geo settings)

I've been passengered in a GT2 with Moton Club Sport suspension, it transformed the car (as you may or may not be aware the standard Bilsteins that Porsche fitted are just about the cheapest sh*ttiest dampers available that Porsche AG could get away with fitting.

The Motons made the car so much more compliant and planted. It's ridiculous that what was a £120k car (new) was allowed out of development with such useless suspension.

The 997 bodyshell has almost forty percent more flexural strength than that of the 996 (and is 8% stiffer torsionally) That alone should tell you Porsche AG realised that the 996 bodyshell had some pretty basic and intrinsic shortcomings . . . .

Drive a 996 GT2 with standard suspension along an undulating and poorly surfaced road and you'll feel two things.

Firstly the standard dampers and springs are totally at odds with each other (front dampers too stiff, rear dampers too soft) but also that the 996 "platform" (bodyshell) twists torsionally and in flexure.

The problem being that the dampers and springs don't have a sufficiently stable platform to function from.

Drive the same section of road in a 997 GT3 and the "platform" is so much stiffer with no obvious torsional flexing or lack of flexural stiffness. Quite simply the dampers actually control the wheels as opposed to fighting a losing battle with a bodyshell that doesn't provide the stiffness to allow them to function as they were intended to.

IMO the Moton equipped 996 GT2 I passengered in didn't address the inherent issue with the 996 chassis/bodyshell it merely masked it with top quality damping and a vastly better choice of spring and damper rates !

HTH



Pork_n_Beem

1,164 posts

112 months

[news] 
Wednesday 18th November 2009 quote quote all
Mine is set up for track use, the road manners i would describe as tiring as you need to keep a reasonably firm grip of the wheel to keep it in a straight line.

I set up my cars to be very pointy, i.e. very responsive front end by using camber and toe out. This makes straight line driving tiring as mentioned but the benefit is that it actually reduces the snap oversteer quite considerably and makes keeping a line so much easier.

End of the day i dont drive it much on the road except to the ccts so its no problem, however if you set it up for road use then i am sure it can be more civilised but will never compare to a 5 series or S class for straight line cruising

B16 FYS

1,930 posts

95 months

[news] 
Wednesday 18th November 2009 quote quote all
jackal said:
is it true what they say.... will it swap 2 lanes when running over an expansion joint ?

has anyone had a 996 GT2 centre-of-gravtied ? did it help ?

how hard is the ride compared to a 96 Gt3 ?
Hi Jackal,

Dont bother with the 996 GT2, miss it out, go and test drive a 997 GT3 or 997 GT3 RS, then come back and tell us all what you think !!!

jackal

Original Poster:

10,828 posts

169 months

[news] 
Wednesday 18th November 2009 quote quote all
thanks again guys

@B16, I dont really want a GT3, i have my 993 for a focused drive and its staying firmly put.. I would rather have something in between a turbo and GT3. I fancy a different experience as well and the huge blown GT2 power and RWD might just be that. I also like the looks. 997 gt's will be beyond budget.

@slippy, thanks for all that info.. interesting. Maybe that's why Sutcliffe once said in some autocar track test that the GT2 with a cage made a massive difference compared to a standard car.

Slippydiff

6,501 posts

110 months

[news] 
Wednesday 18th November 2009 quote quote all
No doubt the genuine Clubsport cage would only improve the situation.
If you can live with/accept and buy into the GT2s "shortcomings" you'll love it. I do miss the turbocharged grunt of mine, from that perspective it was peerless.
Tactile and enjoyable to drive around the twisties and on bumpy roads ? Not really . . . .

jeremyc

12,236 posts

171 months

[news] 
Wednesday 18th November 2009 quote quote all
Slippydiff said:
If you can live with/accept and buy into the GT2s "shortcomings" you'll love it. I do miss the turbocharged grunt of mine, from that perspective it was peerless.
Tactile and enjoyable to drive around the twisties and on bumpy roads ? Not really . . . .
And certainly not Zanzibar. wink

wavey
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