MSV track days and camera mounts - WARNING

[DarioT]

To whom it may concern: (sorry if this is a repost, but it needs to be communicated)

As of very recently MSV has decided to ban the use of any suction or vacuum mounting systems for use with video cameras in car or on car.

I have spoken with them today to to get clarification on this stance. They have confirmed that until further notice they will not be allowing the use of these mounts at any of their tracks.

Only mounts which clamp on or bolt on will be allowed to be used to carry a camera irrespective of the weight of the camera system.

Their Terms and Conditions have not been amended to reflect this change in their conditions of use.

I have written to them and received a very polite reply from Nick at Brand Hatch (booking office). apparently an incident has taken place on track (at a location not disclosed) where a suction mount broke loose and caused the driver to lose control of the car and crash.

Their health and safety officer has issued a blanket ban on these products full stop. MSV are working on a way to potentially reintroduce these mounts and are in conversation with their lawyers for an amendment to their Terms and Conditions.

I have explained that it is neigh on impossible to affix a hard mount in to a normal road going car! also the proprietary head rest mounts may not always be possible to affix as so many modern cars no longer have the 2 metal posts holding up the headrest, but are integrated in to the back rest.

To this end and to expedite the situation i have offered to assist MSV's lawyer (as an avid track day enthusiast from a non partisan stand point / view) to achieve a middle ground where possibly only vacuum mounts are allowed (with a published capacity) to affix light weight camera systems to the windscreen.

I think we can only hope that they see sense soon and not allow the joy gestapo to ruin our enjoyment of track days and reviewing the aftermath.

Edited by DarioT on Friday 4th December 22:41

[fiveoclockhero1]

They have been saying in their briefings from around 6 to 7 months ago that suction mounts aren't allowed.

[Walton]

I heard it was fine as long as the cameras had a secure tether in the case of the suction failing?

[tertius]

fiveoclockhero1 said:

They have been saying in their briefings from around 6 to 7 months ago that suction mounts aren't allowed.

For at least that long, is this really recent news?

[t11ner]

Also worth bearing in mind that this ruling is being applied most throughly to cameras mounted inside the vehicles as they are the ones most likely to cause an accident or cause injury in the case of an accident.

[fiveoclockhero1]

tertius said:

fiveoclockhero1 said:

They have been saying in their briefings from around 6 to 7 months ago that suction mounts aren't allowed.

For at least that long, is this really recent news?

Yep, now I come to think of it more like a year

[DarioT]

In the past i have been allowed to use my vacuum mount system in car, now since the incident they have made the blanket ruling. And yes they have heard this statement in briefings.

Any way, only trying to help and move it on from where it is now (arbitrary) to a more considered approach from MSV.

They are now trying to apply a uniform approach to all of their circuits and the answer is no.

Edited by DarioT on Friday 4th December 23:29

[shim]

i heard of an occassion on one MSV trackday where a stone hit someones windscreen, cracked it and the suction mount lost its suction and fell into the footwell of the driver side somehow. Maybe this is the same case.

I have used a Hague suction mount for the last 3 years and could not see why these would ever be banned as they stick like st but i can now see why TDOs might want to ban them (well their insurers anyway)

trouble is odd occassions like this happens due to may issues like maybe an a/m shock giving way BUT the TDO doesnt ban a/m shocks, or say a non braded brake hose failing but tye dont ban non braided brake hoses.

This is a usual over reaction by a TDO due to insuracne poresure i guess.

[mattdaniels]

shim said:

This is a usual over reaction by a TDO due to insuracne poresure i guess.

That's a bit harsh - think through the alternative, TDO refuses to comply with the terms of the event insurance being offered........

Ding to the other posts on here about the briefings "no suction mounts / no handheld cameras in the car" has been stated in TDO briefings for a long time as far as I can remember.

[PetrolTed]

Goldtrack have banned these mounts for years.

I can see their point. It would seem more likely for a suction mount to come adrift in comparison to a fixed mount.

If there's nowhere to secure a fixed mount in your car, what about a bullet cam?

[andye30m3]

I've been aloud to use a bullet cam on a suction mount on trackdays where camcorders on suction mounts have been band. I just zip tie it to a solid point in the car.

I've also been aloud to sprint with the same set up

[mat205125]

andye30m3 said:

I've been aloud to use a bullet cam on a suction mount on trackdays where camcorders on suction mounts have been band. I just zip tie it to a solid point in the car.

I've also been aloud to sprint with the same set up

Sorry

[911DM]

mat205125 said:

andye30m3 said:

I've been aloud to use a bullet cam on a suction mount on trackdays where camcorders on suction mounts have been band. I just zip tie it to a solid point in the car.

I've also been aloud to sprint with the same set up

Sorry

Nicely off topic sort of

might; would; might; would; would :-)

[160steve]

911DM said:

mat205125 said:

andye30m3 said:

I've been aloud to use a bullet cam on a suction mount on trackdays where camcorders on suction mounts have been band. I just zip tie it to a solid point in the car.

I've also been aloud to sprint with the same set up

Sorry

Nicely off topic sort of

might; would; might; would; would :-)

Cracking photo that.

[Racelogic]

I contacted Goldtrack about this very recently and their reply is as follows:

"Screen mounted is fine if it’s just the little bullet camera. Anything else needs to be bolted on."

At other trackdays, I would recommend placing the bullet camera just underneath the rear view mirror, and tether to it using a cable tie. This should prevent any accidental detachments. If they are going to be reasonable about it, then I think this is a good compromise.

[fastfreddy]

Suction mounts fall off of their own accord all the time due to temperature changes, dirty or curved surface. Even the large Manfrotto ones are not completely reliable. TDOs have been funny about them for years.

I also remember someone on here having to get a new windscreen after a Manfrotto suction mount caused it to crack. Maybe caused by a small fault/chip originally, but he wasn't sure.

This is the best mount available for bullet cameras. It's used on the BTCC cars by the production team who do the onboard cameras for ITV and other professional Motorsport teams.

http://www.drivedata.com/products/camera_mounts_fi...

It sticks on the inside of the screen using a special high-bond adhesive, although you can get them off if you need to without damaging the screen.

Expensive, but there's nothing better and I've tried everything!

[DarioT]

Racelogic said:

I contacted Goldtrack about this very recently and their reply is as follows:

"Screen mounted is fine if it’s just the little bullet camera. Anything else needs to be bolted on."

At other trackdays, I would recommend placing the bullet camera just underneath the rear view mirror, and tether to it using a cable tie. This should prevent any accidental detachments. If they are going to be reasonable about it, then I think this is a good compromise.

I'm off to Cadwell Park on Friday with my radical and some friends in normal road cars. i will try this methodology out..... but first i will just try and get a pair of normal vacuum type mounts past there inspection. we will try all sorts of mountings as i have most of one sort or another.

[DarioT]

fastfreddy said:

Suction mounts fall off of their own accord all the time due to temperature changes, dirty or curved surface. Even the large Manfrotto ones are not completely reliable. TDOs have been funny about them for years.

I also remember someone on here having to get a new windscreen after a Manfrotto suction mount caused it to crack. Maybe caused by a small fault/chip originally, but he wasn't sure.

This is the best mount available for bullet cameras. It's used on the BTCC cars by the production team who do the onboard cameras for ITV and other professional Motorsport teams.

http://www.drivedata.com/products/camera_mounts_fi...

It sticks on the inside of the screen using a special high-bond adhesive, although you can get them off if you need to without damaging the screen.

Expensive, but there's nothing better and I've tried everything!

Thanks fastfreddy, mine arrived today and it now on the car in the garage for the next 14 hours to see what its like to remove. hopefully it wont crack the screen and the residue is easy to remove.....

i'll feed back what happens.

[DarioT]

fastfreddy said:

Suction mounts fall off of their own accord all the time due to temperature changes, dirty or curved surface. Even the large Manfrotto ones are not completely reliable. TDOs have been funny about them for years.

I also remember someone on here having to get a new windscreen after a Manfrotto suction mount caused it to crack. Maybe caused by a small fault/chip originally, but he wasn't sure.

This is the best mount available for bullet cameras. It's used on the BTCC cars by the production team who do the onboard cameras for ITV and other professional Motorsport teams.

http://www.drivedata.com/products/camera_mounts_fi...

It sticks on the inside of the screen using a special high-bond adhesive, although you can get them off if you need to without damaging the screen.

Expensive, but there's nothing better and I've tried everything!

Thanks fastfreddy, mine arrived today and it now on the car in the garage for the next 14 hours to see what its like to remove. hopefully it wont crack the screen and the residue is easy to remove.....

i'll feed back what happens.

[fastfreddy]

DarioT said:

fastfreddy said:

Suction mounts fall off of their own accord all the time due to temperature changes, dirty or curved surface. Even the large Manfrotto ones are not completely reliable. TDOs have been funny about them for years.

I also remember someone on here having to get a new windscreen after a Manfrotto suction mount caused it to crack. Maybe caused by a small fault/chip originally, but he wasn't sure.

This is the best mount available for bullet cameras. It's used on the BTCC cars by the production team who do the onboard cameras for ITV and other professional Motorsport teams.

http://www.drivedata.com/products/camera_mounts_fi...

It sticks on the inside of the screen using a special high-bond adhesive, although you can get them off if you need to without damaging the screen.

Expensive, but there's nothing better and I've tried everything!

Thanks fastfreddy, mine arrived today and it now on the car in the garage for the next 14 hours to see what its like to remove. hopefully it wont crack the screen and the residue is easy to remove.....

i'll feed back what happens.

Ah - cool!

Here are a few tips - if you try and pull it off - you won't! I know of a car recently which rolled and it had two of those mounts fixed on the inside of the windscreen. The screen popped out of the car during the roll and the mounts were still firmly attached Cameras needed new cables attaching but other than that were as good as new.

The best way to remove those mounts is to firmly grab it and twist relative to the tape/plate part. That way the adhesive shears and the tape will come away usually either still attached to the mount or to the glass. Then you can just use a fingernail roll the tape off the surface. If you try and pull the tape it will stretch and break so just roll it off. The tape won't leave any residue or mark/damage the surface if you do this right, however it is seriously strong stuff and is actually used to attach truck panels instead of pop-rivets.

After a few times, you'll get the hang of it and you'll be able to attach and remove the mount in a few seconds and you'll be much more confident it will stay on compared to a suction mount or cable ties!

Also, when you stick it on, check for air-bubbles between the adhesive and screen from the outside. Make sure most of the tape is in contact with the glass.

HTH and good luck!