SUPERMARKETS - POWERS TO STOP AND SEARCH?
Discussion
A couple of times recently i have had the "beeper" go off as i leave a shop, the last occasion being Tesco, whereupon a small teenage lad charged up to me and asked me to step back into the store for them to check that i had paid for all the items in it. I knew i had definately paid for all the items (bread/milk/workstuff), so i just said "No". He asked me a couple of times more and even though i felt like a crim, i kept sayings "no, i have paid for everything, i have no need to return to the store to have my shopping checked." He asked me again (quite assertively for a small lad)and i said "You better be right, son". At which opint he looked at my shopping bag and said "Umm, it might have been someone else setting the beeper off", so i walked away. NOW! What powers do shops have to stop and search/detain you if you are certain you have not taken anything without paying for it? What would happen if you just kept walking, do they have the power to physically restrain you from leaving (even if you are outside the shop by this point?) Sensible answers appreciated :0)
Do you have any kind of electronic entry fob for work etc.?SWMBO would get stopped in similar circumstances leaving any shop and she eventually traced the problem too her swipe card from work that operated on similar frequencies to the tags used by retailers.
Other members of staff had the same problems and her employers had their cards reprogrammed.
Other members of staff had the same problems and her employers had their cards reprogrammed.
dikkobat said:
A couple of times recently i have had the "beeper" go off as i leave a shop, the last occasion being Tesco, whereupon a small teenage lad charged up to me and asked me to step back into the store for them to check that i had paid for all the items in it. I knew i had definately paid for all the items (bread/milk/workstuff), so i just said "No". He asked me a couple of times more and even though i felt like a crim, i kept sayings "no, i have paid for everything, i have no need to return to the store to have my shopping checked." He asked me again (quite assertively for a small lad)and i said "You better be right, son". At which opint he looked at my shopping bag and said "Umm, it might have been someone else setting the beeper off", so i walked away. NOW! What powers do shops have to stop and search/detain you if you are certain you have not taken anything without paying for it? What would happen if you just kept walking, do they have the power to physically restrain you from leaving (even if you are outside the shop by this point?) Sensible answers appreciated :0)
God what a jobsworth.You that is.
Next time just let them deactivate the security tags so it doesnt go off in other stores
However if the belief is not reasonable:
- false imprisonment
- wrongful arrest
- (potentially) assault & battery
etc
For unlawful imprisonment, as an example, see Claudette Thompson v. Commissioner of police [1997] EWCA Civ 1042
Per Lord Woolf:
"In a straightforward case of wrongful arrest and imprisonment the starting point is likely to be about £500 for the first hour during which the plaintiff has been deprived of his or her liberty. After the first hour an additional sum is to be awarded, but that sum should be on a reducing scale so as to keep the damages proportionate with those payable in personal injury cases and because the plaintiff is entitled to have a higher rate of compensation for the initial shock of being arrested. As a guideline we consider, for example, that a plaintiff who has been wrongly kept in custody for twenty four hours should for this alone normally be regarded as entitled to an award of about £3,000."
- false imprisonment
- wrongful arrest
- (potentially) assault & battery
etc
For unlawful imprisonment, as an example, see Claudette Thompson v. Commissioner of police [1997] EWCA Civ 1042
Per Lord Woolf:
"In a straightforward case of wrongful arrest and imprisonment the starting point is likely to be about £500 for the first hour during which the plaintiff has been deprived of his or her liberty. After the first hour an additional sum is to be awarded, but that sum should be on a reducing scale so as to keep the damages proportionate with those payable in personal injury cases and because the plaintiff is entitled to have a higher rate of compensation for the initial shock of being arrested. As a guideline we consider, for example, that a plaintiff who has been wrongly kept in custody for twenty four hours should for this alone normally be regarded as entitled to an award of about £3,000."
Yep, TehMonkey, seems you missed the point didnt you. Its not about being a jobsworth, there was a valid qustion asked. I also mentioned that it was small items for work therefore no tags on them. The question was "Do they have the right to stop and search you?"
Fortunately there are some people here that can provide sensible answers, so i shall have to investigate this.
Judge not lest ye be judged.
Fortunately there are some people here that can provide sensible answers, so i shall have to investigate this.
Judge not lest ye be judged.
I've had the alarms go off at the local tesco's, just been waved at by a security guard, never had them make a drama out of it.
I had one go off at the local countrywide store, they had forgotten to remove a security tag from a pair of work trousers I'd bought, they were very apologetic, and again didn't make a drama out of it.
Away from airports I find civvy security guards to be very polite and sensible
I had one go off at the local countrywide store, they had forgotten to remove a security tag from a pair of work trousers I'd bought, they were very apologetic, and again didn't make a drama out of it.
Away from airports I find civvy security guards to be very polite and sensible
The mistake a lot of people make is stopping, looking slightly guilty, and then engaging the store employee in discussion.
I on the other hand, maintain a steady pace, don't look back and just keep moving.
The guards will normally look for someone jogging away, not someone just walking, and the onus is on them to prove that you've taken something. Bear in mind also they cannot lay a hand on you, or that could be construed as assault, and IIRC you can use reasonable force to defend yourself.
I on the other hand, maintain a steady pace, don't look back and just keep moving.
The guards will normally look for someone jogging away, not someone just walking, and the onus is on them to prove that you've taken something. Bear in mind also they cannot lay a hand on you, or that could be construed as assault, and IIRC you can use reasonable force to defend yourself.
Cyberprog said:
The mistake a lot of people make is stopping, looking slightly guilty, and then engaging the store employee in discussion.
I on the other hand, maintain a steady pace, don't look back and just keep moving.
The guards will normally look for someone jogging away, not someone just walking, and the onus is on them to prove that you've taken something. Bear in mind also they cannot lay a hand on you, or that could be construed as assault, and IIRC you can use reasonable force to defend yourself.
Haha and then you get away with the goods, right?!I on the other hand, maintain a steady pace, don't look back and just keep moving.
The guards will normally look for someone jogging away, not someone just walking, and the onus is on them to prove that you've taken something. Bear in mind also they cannot lay a hand on you, or that could be construed as assault, and IIRC you can use reasonable force to defend yourself.
Thanks CyberProg, thats more the kind of thing i was looking to clarify. I was wondering HOW sure they have to be before detaining you. TomJS posted a very interesting reply as well regarding compenstion for wrongful detainment. These beepers seem to go off for many reasons and i was wondering if that in itself was sufficient to detain you or whether it had to be corroborated by a member of staff witnessing you stealing something. If this were not the case, surely one would be in a position to "detain with reasonable force" anyone who set the alarm off. I know that if i was in this position, i would be hoping for it to go off whenever someone i didnt like went through it and detain them with as much reasonable force as possible due to them resisting.
Im not being a jobsworth about it, its just that the poor kids they seem to put on shoplifter-catching duties seem to be hugely enthusiastic (and yes, fairly polite). Unfortunately, unless they have had secret-ninja-assassin-training, im not convinced they could physically restrain a more aggressive/physically superior mentallist (not me tho, im just a mild mannered middle aged guy minding my own business :0))
Im not being a jobsworth about it, its just that the poor kids they seem to put on shoplifter-catching duties seem to be hugely enthusiastic (and yes, fairly polite). Unfortunately, unless they have had secret-ninja-assassin-training, im not convinced they could physically restrain a more aggressive/physically superior mentallist (not me tho, im just a mild mannered middle aged guy minding my own business :0))
I am sure things have changed..a lot since i worked in a supermarket in the 80's.
If anyone saw a shoplifter, a very calm call would go out over the tannoy system "Customer service 100 @ whatever location"
Upon hearing this call, every single male member of staff would be expected to come running, the meat counter boys looked forward to it. We were more than happy to chase people wherever they went and drag them back into the shop by their hair if necessary.
Shoplifters didn't have any rights back then!
If anyone saw a shoplifter, a very calm call would go out over the tannoy system "Customer service 100 @ whatever location"
Upon hearing this call, every single male member of staff would be expected to come running, the meat counter boys looked forward to it. We were more than happy to chase people wherever they went and drag them back into the shop by their hair if necessary.
Shoplifters didn't have any rights back then!
No harm in the OP asking what the law is, grumpy SPLers. 
Police and Criminal Evidence Act S24A:-
24A
Arrest without warrant: other persons
(1) A person other than a constable may arrest without a warrant—
(a)anyone who is in the act of committing an indictable offence;
(b)anyone whom he has reasonable grounds for suspecting to be committing an indictable offence.
(2) Where an indictable offence has been committed, a person other than a constable may arrest without a warrant—
(a)anyone who is guilty of the offence;
(b)anyone whom he has reasonable grounds for suspecting to be guilty of it.
(3) But the power of summary arrest conferred by subsection (1) or (2) is exercisable only if—
(a)the person making the arrest has reasonable grounds for believing that for any of the reasons mentioned in subsection (4) it is necessary to arrest the person in question; and
(b)it appears to the person making the arrest that it is not reasonably practicable for a constable to make it instead.
(4) The reasons are to prevent the person in question—
(a)causing physical injury to himself or any other person;
(b)suffering physical injury;
(c)causing loss of or damage to property; or
(d)making off before a constable can assume responsibility for him.
oldsoak said:
I thought you had to be sure that a crime had taken place as well as having reasonable suspicion that the person had committed it (or alternatively catch them in the act).Police and Criminal Evidence Act S24A:-
24A
Arrest without warrant: other persons
(1) A person other than a constable may arrest without a warrant—
(a)anyone who is in the act of committing an indictable offence;
(b)anyone whom he has reasonable grounds for suspecting to be committing an indictable offence.
(2) Where an indictable offence has been committed, a person other than a constable may arrest without a warrant—
(a)anyone who is guilty of the offence;
(b)anyone whom he has reasonable grounds for suspecting to be guilty of it.
(3) But the power of summary arrest conferred by subsection (1) or (2) is exercisable only if—
(a)the person making the arrest has reasonable grounds for believing that for any of the reasons mentioned in subsection (4) it is necessary to arrest the person in question; and
(b)it appears to the person making the arrest that it is not reasonably practicable for a constable to make it instead.
(4) The reasons are to prevent the person in question—
(a)causing physical injury to himself or any other person;
(b)suffering physical injury;
(c)causing loss of or damage to property; or
(d)making off before a constable can assume responsibility for him.
Boosted LS1 said:
If it ever happens to me I'll probably tell them to feck off. I've usually got better things to do then pander to a security card who's probably on a high.
Like I do in airports when I'm pissed off with them.You don't actually win though, you just end up even more grumpy !
Nigel Worc's said:
Boosted LS1 said:
If it ever happens to me I'll probably tell them to feck off. I've usually got better things to do then pander to a security card who's probably on a high.
Like I do in airports when I'm pissed off with them.You don't actually win though, you just end up even more grumpy !
Worked in security for the last 9 years give or take a bit...
What you are talking about is the ahops PAS system.
Many things can set it off...from a tag in the store or a tag from elsewhere to a set of keys and a fob.
When the alarm goes off we are allowed to approach the person and ask them to return to the shop to have their goods checked or advise that if they go elsewhere it could set off the alarms there but we can not force anyone due to SCONE. Selection Concealment Obsavation None Payment Exit. If you do not see this then you should not really make a stop
You do get some awkard people that refuse to come back in and TBH you cant do much about them..gets to me as your only doing your job asking them to return...but its their right and all i do is remember the face for next time and follow them
What you are talking about is the ahops PAS system.
Many things can set it off...from a tag in the store or a tag from elsewhere to a set of keys and a fob.
When the alarm goes off we are allowed to approach the person and ask them to return to the shop to have their goods checked or advise that if they go elsewhere it could set off the alarms there but we can not force anyone due to SCONE. Selection Concealment Obsavation None Payment Exit. If you do not see this then you should not really make a stop
You do get some awkard people that refuse to come back in and TBH you cant do much about them..gets to me as your only doing your job asking them to return...but its their right and all i do is remember the face for next time and follow them
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