What to buy?

[acf69]

I've been lurking on here for a while, but thought it time to see what you guys think about the following:

I've not owned a Porsche for about 15 years and have always wanted a 911 so when some bad luck turned good I decided it was time to pop my 911 cherry. The problem being what to buy.

I currently drive an E46 M3 and test drove a 3.6 and a 3.8 997 yesterday. Both were great, but I left wondering whether I really need to spend circa £40k on a weekend play thing.

What would be a good compromise, spend slightly less on a 996TT and get a step up in performance compared to the M3, forget performance figures and find a nice 993 and save quite a few £'s or something else? I have two kids who I would like to take out in it occassionally so a GT3 isn't really an option although the residuals do appeal

Thanks

[Cedric's Dad]

Try a 993 turbo if you can live with the rear spoiler. You get a nice compact car with character and reasonable grunt. Prices seem to vary alot though?

[Hespereus]

acf69 said:

I've been lurking on here for a while, but thought it time to see what you guys think about the following:

I've not owned a Porsche for about 15 years and have always wanted a 911 so when some bad luck turned good I decided it was time to pop my 911 cherry. The problem being what to buy.

I currently drive an E46 M3 and test drove a 3.6 and a 3.8 997 yesterday. Both were great, but I left wondering whether I really need to spend circa £40k on a weekend play thing.

What would be a good compromise, spend slightly less on a 996TT and get a step up in performance compared to the M3, forget performance figures and find a nice 993 and save quite a few £'s or something else? I have two kids who I would like to take out in it occassionally so a GT3 isn't really an option although the residuals do appeal

Thanks

Save £10k, but a nice 993 and sit back contended and happy that its value won't drop much (if at all), its engine won't blow up and it will be enormous fun...... oh, and provided the kids have short legs they can fit in the back!

[davek_964]

Personally, I wouldn't want a 996 turbo (or 996 / 997 NA) as a weekend plaything. I think they're a bit too refined.

I like my 964 as a weekend car, and I'm sure a 993 would do the same job. If you want power, then obviously the turbo versions are the way to go. I've actually come to the conclusion that my 964 makes about enough power, and anything extra is nice but a bit unnecessary. But I realise I'm in a bit of a minority there!

[acf69]

musclecarmad said:

if its a weekend plaything i think i'd avoid any modern 911 such as a 997 as you will lose a lot of cash on it - they are great daily drivers if you have the £ though

a 930 turbo, 911 3.2 (inc supersport and clubsport) or 993 would be my bet

if its your only car and you are changing the M3 then 996 turbos seem good value.

Thanks for the advice so far

I am going to keep the M3 as my daily drive as it has lost a ton since I bought it. Originally I had intended to replace it with a cheap four seater, but prices are on the floor and its in too good nick to give away.

Is there a FAQ anywhere re what to look out for when looking at 993's. I know which end to use of a screwdriver, but am far from the most practical person and generally if a jobs worth doing its worth doing well, which with my car mechanics means getting a specialist to do another more complex than an oil top up!

[jackal]

acf69 said:

I've been lurking on here for a while, but thought it time to see what you guys think about the following:

I've not owned a Porsche for about 15 years and have always wanted a 911 so when some bad luck turned good I decided it was time to pop my 911 cherry. The problem being what to buy.

I currently drive an E46 M3 and test drove a 3.6 and a 3.8 997 yesterday. Both were great, but I left wondering whether I really need to spend circa £40k on a weekend play thing.

What would be a good compromise, spend slightly less on a 996TT and get a step up in performance compared to the M3, forget performance figures and find a nice 993 and save quite a few £'s or something else? I have two kids who I would like to take out in it occassionally so a GT3 isn't really an option although the residuals do appeal

Thanks

world's your oyster

as always it depends on what you like

A 993 is a car to love and adore. Get out there and test drive a few. If you're not worried about the last word in nimbless and tactility etc.. (coming from an M3 you may not be) then maybe consider a 993 turbo which has looks to die for and will be great as an all round GT car with the kids in the back etc.. and you won't have to 'forget performance figures' because it will still be very rapid. Just try and makes sure you test drive one thats on good suspension and is set up right as a bad test in a 993 can put you off for life. Its an old car now and needs to extract the best from its damping and geometry to shine.

As for the 996's, I'd definitely test drive a 996tt as well. A lot more aloof and a doodle to drive but as an all round real world road car surely about the best it gets. Good value as well. I also wouldn't rule out a GT2 or a GT3 if you want something more interesting. Get the geo right, fit some rear seats (very simple job) and its a an all round car as well. A gt3 might be 40k but you shouldn't lose very much money if any at all if you buy right.


Enjoy the chase and all the window shopping it involves... that part is often more of a buzz than the actual ownership phase

Edited by jackal on Sunday 3rd January 17:51

[jackal]

acf69 said:

a weekend play thing.

sorry missed that bit

For every turbo you try, try the NA counterpart as well... I personally wouldn't put the 993tt or 996tt on the top of a shopping list for a 'weekend plaything' but of course as always your mileage may vary. GT3 with rear seats or a 2wd 993 C2 is the more natural choice.

[acf69]

I'm not so worried about the outlay if residuals are going to be firm, which had me thinking either 993 (as they have taken the hit due to age) or something like a GT3 or another ltd edition as they seem to hold value better than the standard cars.

How much work / cost is it to put rear seats and belts into a GT3? If I could squeeze my son in the back safely this would definitely be an option.

The "shopping" bit will be fun as long as there aren't too many wild goose chases going to view mint cars that turn out to be crocks

[jackal]

rear seat belts 3 point are ~50 quid each
rear seats (4 pcs) aroudn 180 quid on ebay
doubt they'd be much more brand new

I understand that the mountings are all in place.

if you're buying a GT3 for 40k then to spend 300-500 quid on turning it into a 4 seater is damm good value IMO

just be sure to let your insurers know

get COG to dial off some camber and run a nice well roudned road geo and you're in business with a fab legend of a car that won't lose money and has a world class engine. Depends what you're used to but personally i didn't find the springs rates too high for road use, even with family aboard.

GT2 a better choice though for road car, if nothing else for the immense hyperspace thrust that's not so revs dependent

Edited by jackal on Sunday 3rd January 19:54

[ukwill]

musclecarmad said:

acf69 said:

I'm not so worried about the outlay if residuals are going to be firm, which had me thinking either 993 (as they have taken the hit due to age) or something like a GT3 or another ltd edition as they seem to hold value better than the standard cars.

How much work / cost is it to put rear seats and belts into a GT3? If I could squeeze my son in the back safely this would definitely be an option.

The "shopping" bit will be fun as long as there aren't too many wild goose chases going to view mint cars that turn out to be crocks

depreciation is where you can get hit - my mate bought a £55k cayman that's now worth £25k, also another mate had a cayenne for £65k thats now worth £25k. They take big hits - I have never lost money on a car. If you put the £30k into something like a nice 930 turbo or 996 turbo you are only talking about losing a measly few grand.

its weird how some people buy a new vectra as they don't have much money but seem to blow ten grand on depeciation - a porsche if looked after won't cost as much.

i'd have thought investment wise the following are good, guys feel free to amend the list as you see fit:
pre 1974 911 although I don't like them as they are generally a bit slow
1989 911 Turbo (930) - most iconic porsche for a long time and people seem to love them
1980's 911 Clubsport - I think this one could go much higher but hard to find
1980's 911 supersport - rare and sought after turbo body
porsche 993 - turbo or widebody (2S) - best looking porsche made imho
996 turbo - a lot of performance for your money

[acf69]

Even all, not really Porsche weather today is it

Thanks for the tips and hints to date. I am currently thinking of going for either a 993 or mid 80's 3.2, having fun searching the web. There is definitely a wide range of pricing on the 993's that I've seen so far and some great "gordon gecko" bold 80's cars with their whale tails

I'm hoping to see a few at the weekend, but only if the snow disappears by then

[Tino]

acf69 said:

Even all, not really Porsche weather today is it

No it isn't
Good choice on the 993. Don't worry about lack of grunt on the non turbo cars, as there is plenty. If you can afford a turbo, however, wou will probably love it!
As always, buy on condition and history, not mileage.
Get either the buying guide or the essential companion, from amazon(about £40 odd, but well worth it)
If funds permit, consider also a MK1 GT3.
I use my C4S daily(except in the snow) but would have bought the GT3 or a 993 as a weekend toy. Do not spend your money on a 997, as depriciation will be a killer, and you will cry when you work out the cost per mile.
The other thing is it often takes quite a while to bond with a Porsche, so don't worry too much if you feel you don't get on with it at first.

[Tino]

musclecarmad said:

ukwill said:

musclecarmad said:

acf69 said:

I'm not so worried about the outlay if residuals are going to be firm, which had me thinking either 993 (as they have taken the hit due to age) or something like a GT3 or another ltd edition as they seem to hold value better than the standard cars.

How much work / cost is it to put rear seats and belts into a GT3? If I could squeeze my son in the back safely this would definitely be an option.

The "shopping" bit will be fun as long as there aren't too many wild goose chases going to view mint cars that turn out to be crocks

depreciation is where you can get hit - my mate bought a £55k cayman that's now worth £25k, also another mate had a cayenne for £65k thats now worth £25k. They take big hits - I have never lost money on a car. If you put the £30k into something like a nice 930 turbo or 996 turbo you are only talking about losing a measly few grand.

its weird how some people buy a new vectra as they don't have much money but seem to blow ten grand on depeciation - a porsche if looked after won't cost as much.

i'd have thought investment wise the following are good, guys feel free to amend the list as you see fit:
pre 1974 911 although I don't like them as they are generally a bit slow
1989 911 Turbo (930) - most iconic porsche for a long time and people seem to love them
1980's 911 Clubsport - I think this one could go much higher but hard to find
1980's 911 supersport - rare and sought after turbo body
porsche 993 - turbo or widebody (2S) - best looking porsche made imho
996 turbo - a lot of performance for your money

I know - nice isn't it

never had a shortage of nice fast cars either - they are one thing the average man loses too much money on.

say a guy that earns £50k as a solicitor buys a new X5 for £50k and sells it 3 years later for £25k he has lost £25k which is a fair amount of his net take home each month. if his mate in the office earns £50k and buys a £50k Countach and sells it 3 years later for £75k he makes £25,000. The difference is £50,000 over 3 years - it only takes doing this a few times before a big gap starts showing in terms of their net worth.

Obviously you need a car to use daily and obviously there are running costs but I see so many 30 year olds with a good income and a new BMW 330d on finance etc that they actually have nothing even though they have a good income.

I've had nearly 20 cars too - it's all about buying the right car at the right price!

Its crazy. Many friends have bought new, or nearly new cars, and along with finance APR payments have cost them thousands over very few years.
I have only ever owned oldish, but unusual cars(but all sub £3300), but still get envious mates(who go skiing 3x a year, and to the pub every friday and saturday)telling me that I should sell my car and get a nice family car, and what do I need such a flash car for? etc
ETA I realise that I will probably lose money n the C4S, but its a Porsche!, its costing me to drive something decent, not a focus, or whatever.

Edited by Tino on Wednesday 6th January 09:30

[Wanta996Gotta]

Coming from an M3 - The standard 993's performance and handling will disapoint as cars have moved on so much,the standard 993 would struggle to keep up with a modern BMW 135i never mind an M3 - i guess it depends on what you mean by weekend plaything - I dont get the same joy with my C4S as i did with my MK1 Elise but the 996 does "everything" in all weathers and has not let me down yet.

Modern cars are more comfortable and easier to live with/look after in my opinion. A 996/997 being used as a weekend car would cost you almost £0. I would advise to go for a 996 Turbo or a 2004 997 C2/C2s at £30-£35k.

[jackal]

musclecarmad said:

ukwill said:

musclecarmad said:

acf69 said:

I'm not so worried about the outlay if residuals are going to be firm, which had me thinking either 993 (as they have taken the hit due to age) or something like a GT3 or another ltd edition as they seem to hold value better than the standard cars.

How much work / cost is it to put rear seats and belts into a GT3? If I could squeeze my son in the back safely this would definitely be an option.

The "shopping" bit will be fun as long as there aren't too many wild goose chases going to view mint cars that turn out to be crocks

depreciation is where you can get hit - my mate bought a £55k cayman that's now worth £25k, also another mate had a cayenne for £65k thats now worth £25k. They take big hits - I have never lost money on a car. If you put the £30k into something like a nice 930 turbo or 996 turbo you are only talking about losing a measly few grand.

its weird how some people buy a new vectra as they don't have much money but seem to blow ten grand on depeciation - a porsche if looked after won't cost as much.

i'd have thought investment wise the following are good, guys feel free to amend the list as you see fit:
pre 1974 911 although I don't like them as they are generally a bit slow
1989 911 Turbo (930) - most iconic porsche for a long time and people seem to love them
1980's 911 Clubsport - I think this one could go much higher but hard to find
1980's 911 supersport - rare and sought after turbo body
porsche 993 - turbo or widebody (2S) - best looking porsche made imho
996 turbo - a lot of performance for your money

I know - nice isn't it

never had a shortage of nice fast cars either - they are one thing the average man loses too much money on.

say a guy that earns £50k as a solicitor buys a new X5 for £50k and sells it 3 years later for £25k he has lost £25k which is a fair amount of his net take home each month. if his mate in the office earns £50k and buys a £50k Countach and sells it 3 years later for £75k he makes £25,000. The difference is £50,000 over 3 years - it only takes doing this a few times before a big gap starts showing in terms of their net worth.

+1, bang on

Never again will I buy a car knowing i could/will lose 10/20/30k on it .. even if that's over 3,5,10 years or whatever. Made a big fat profit on the 968, set to do the same on the 993 and hopefully will with whatever GT_ I buy next. Long may it continue.

[davek_964]

Wanta996Gotta said:

Coming from an M3 - The standard 993's performance and handling will disapoint as cars have moved on so much,the standard 993 would struggle to keep up with a modern BMW 135i never mind an M3 - i guess it depends on what you mean by weekend plaything - I dont get the same joy with my C4S as i did with my MK1 Elise but the 996 does "everything" in all weathers and has not let me down yet.

Modern cars are more comfortable and easier to live with/look after in my opinion. A 996/997 being used as a weekend car would cost you almost £0. I would advise to go for a 996 Turbo or a 2004 997 C2/C2s at £30-£35k.

Whether a 993 disappoints or not depends on what you're looking for I guess. My turbo is massively faster than my 964 - and no doubt handles better too. It's quieter, and makes a better daily driver. But the 964 is far far more fun than the turbo, and if I needed to sell one tomorrow it would be the turbo that went.

[gt2russ]

jackal said:

rear seat belts 3 point are ~50 quid each
rear seats (4 pcs) aroudn 180 quid on ebay
doubt they'd be much more brand new

I understand that the mountings are all in place.

if you're buying a GT3 for 40k then to spend 300-500 quid on turning it into a 4 seater is damm good value IMO

just be sure to let your insurers know

get COG to dial off some camber and run a nice well roudned road geo and you're in business with a fab legend of a car that won't lose money and has a world class engine. Depends what you're used to but personally i didn't find the springs rates too high for road use, even with family aboard.

GT2 a better choice though for road car, if nothing else for the immense hyperspace thrust that's not so revs dependent

Edited by jackal on Sunday 3rd January 19:54

+1 buy the kids a ps3 leave them at home and enjoy yourself.

Edited by gt2russ on Wednesday 6th January 11:49

[acf69]

LOL, can't really leave them home alone though can I

[thegoose]

Wanta996Gotta said:

Coming from an M3 - The standard 993's performance and handling will disapoint as cars have moved on so much,the standard 993 would struggle to keep up with a modern BMW 135i never mind an M3 - i guess it depends on what you mean by weekend plaything - I dont get the same joy with my C4S as i did with my MK1 Elise but the 996 does "everything" in all weathers and has not let me down yet.

Modern cars are more comfortable and easier to live with/look after in my opinion. A 996/997 being used as a weekend car would cost you almost £0. I would advise to go for a 996 Turbo or a 2004 997 C2/C2s at £30-£35k.

Depreciation being the biggest expense of almost any modern car, would you care to explain the bit in bold?

[Wanta996Gotta]

thegoose said:

Wanta996Gotta said:

Coming from an M3 - The standard 993's performance and handling will disapoint as cars have moved on so much,the standard 993 would struggle to keep up with a modern BMW 135i never mind an M3 - i guess it depends on what you mean by weekend plaything - I dont get the same joy with my C4S as i did with my MK1 Elise but the 996 does "everything" in all weathers and has not let me down yet.

Modern cars are more comfortable and easier to live with/look after in my opinion. A 996/997 being used as a weekend car would cost you almost £0. I would advise to go for a 996 Turbo or a 2004 997 C2/C2s at £30-£35k.

Depreciation being the biggest expense of almost any modern car, would you care to explain the bit in bold?

Are 2003/04 996 Turbos or early 997's still losing £'s? If they are, point me to a few as i have been looking for one for the last few months and if anything, they have rose in price. I personally dont worry too much about depreciation as a lot of Porsche owners seem to to be honest,i use my car daily pileing on the miles with no regard of what someone may "someday" offer me as a trade-in or to buy?

I actually feel sorry for those who buy performance cars as some kind of investment worrying about how mush its going to lose in years to come. Dont get me wrong, i understand why someone would cherise a Mclaren F1 or Enzo like a baby/future investment - But a 911? Drive it and enjoy it.

Servicing & maintenence costs is what i tend to feel over the years - depreciation does'nt even cross my mind.