Alfa 156 Sportwagen . Pleasure or pain?

[DinkyToy-boy]

I've been racking my brain for a few weeks now trying to figure out what best suits my needs for my next car purchase and have started to get myself hot n' bothered about the 156 sportwagen 2.0 TS Veloce.

Basically I need something with a reasonable amount of poke to keep life interesting, but do have to stay practical so I can lug kids and other cumbersome articles around from time to time and was pleased to have come up with this distinct possibility.

I've spent most of today doing web research into what my options might be and have found very many favourable reports about them. BUT.. I've also seen a fair few "owners reports" complaining about what I would consider to be significant niggles (electrics shutting down inexplicably, paintwork issues , cambelt worries etc. Whats more the radio reception is supposed to be lousy)

So I thought I'd see if the good people of this forum had 10 cents to throw in on this one?

I will now be away from the computer for a couple of days but would be interested in what those more in the know than I, had to say when I return. Yay! or Nay! ?

[Clapham993]

Big thumbs down - the boot appeture and below the luggage cover load space is actually smaller than the saloon - oh, and don't believe anyone who tells you they've sorted the reliability.......

[NHyde]

30k in 18 months in a 1,8 Sportwagen , trouble free .
Very comfortable long legged cruiser with a bit of style . The performance and total package reminds me of a Scimitar SE6 I used to own , except it is dry inside !

[stewy68]

I'd buy one for that glorious engine alone.

[Mon Ami Mate]

Clapham993 said:

Big thumbs down - the boot appeture and below the luggage cover load space is actually smaller than the saloon - oh, and don't believe anyone who tells you they've sorted the reliability.......

55K miles in my 2.0l saloon from new. And nothing's fallen off yet.

[DinkyToy-Boy]

Hmmm.... well thanks for that chaps . This does of course re-inforce exactly what I was saying about split views with the Alfa. Some people can't get enough of them and others throw their arms up in the air at the mere mention !

Putting the reliability issue aside for a moment, whats selling this car to me is a combination of styling,very respectable performance and the fact that whilst I know it's not got a massive loadspace for the genre, I'm happy to consider it as a "spacious hatch", which should be adequate for my needs. (Saloons are too restrictive for me in general).

Cons : I'll have to investigate deeper about the reliability obviously and I know the depriciation is a shocker. And isn't there a new model (157?) in the pipeline which could furthur hurt the 156 prices?

I could afford a brand spanker, but am not prepared to take that sort of a hit if I sell on after a couple of years. I'm looking (if I'm looking at all!)at something pretty recent with a substantial chunk already hacked off - maybe in the 10k -11k region...

Finally anyone know when the 165bhp replaced the 150bhp on the 2.0l ?

Thanks again folks

[dougal]

Can I point you toward this recent discussion and you should find all the answers you need.

<a href="http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=74815&f=99&h=0">www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=74815&f=99&h=0</a>


.....and this one.


<a href="http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=68540&f=99&h=0">www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=68540&f=99&h=0</a>


...............as my GRANDMA would say and I quote "don't they rust and break down?" My reply to her is normally something along the lines of "doesn't your car have a starting handle....oh no, hang on, that was years ago when EVERY car did".

If you want to see real electrical gremlins get a new 7 series, trust me, I've seen a few and every one of them goes back to BMW on a very regular basis, but urban myth never seems to reach the untouchable German marks. A friends A4 Avant TDi has spent more time back at the dealers than any of my Alfa's, in less than 6 months. A colleague's VW Bora V5 has had 3, yes 3, new engines and one new gearbox in less than a year, none of them lasted more than a 1000 miles, go on to 4car.com and read some of VW Passat horror stories, all marks get it, apart from the Japs.

If you want unrivaled reliability, go Japanese, if not, most european modern cars are very much equal, unless it's French.






>> Edited by dougal on Wednesday 4th February 14:09

[wombat rick]

Clapham993 said:

Big thumbs down - the boot appeture and below the luggage cover load space is actually smaller than the saloon - oh, and don't believe anyone who tells you they've sorted the reliability.......

Yes - there is (very marginally) less space in the 'Wagon with the cover CLOSED than the saloon, but the thing is, you can OPEN the cover.... Bit harder on the saloon to fit a big box in as you need to remove the boot lid, the rear window and the parcel shelf. Can be a bit of a bind in a wet B&Q car park.


Alfas are not unreliable either. You just need a decent dealer to look after you. And at the end of the day I would rather push an Alfa than drive a boring identikit supposed reliable German or Japanese appliance.

[Kinky]

I looked at the Sportwagon for the very same purposes as yourself.

Mrs K and I went to see Julian at SGT (lovely lovely guy - known him for years) and bought along a usual weekends worth of child/shopping paraphanalia.

Needless to say - we could not even get the buggy in the boot - so that was the end of that unfortunately.

Ended up with a Merc E280 estate. Must confess have not looked since. Still got the 146 though and will get a V6 (or 2.4 diesel) 156 soon (but not the sportwagon).

K

[pdV6]

wombat rick said:

Alfas are not unreliable either. You just need a decent dealer to look after you. And at the end of the day I would rather push an Alfa than drive a boring identikit supposed reliable German or Japanese appliance.

Hen's dentation, rocking-horse excrement etc.

Find a decent specialist and you'll be fine!

[wombat rick]

Kinky said:

Needless to say - we could not even get the buggy in the boot

We have had two wonderful driving holidays since our lad arrived last year. He has now got a smaller buggy too!!
One of the things that eats up a lot of boot space is the Bose amp and sub built into the left hand wheelarch. If you can find a car without this, it helps with space, and it's no great loss either.

[Sparks]

You could look at a saab 9-3 hatch. Y/01 plate cars should be around the 10-11K mark, especially if you go to www.saabselect.co.uk

You need to spend some money on sorting the handling, but even the lpt is swift, and for 500 quid can be taken to 225bhp. The boot is huge, they are comfortable and pretty solid.
No where near as pretty or stylish as the alfa though.


Sparks

[davidd]

Sparks said:

You could look at a saab 9-3 hatch. Y/01 plate cars should be around the 10-11K mark, especially if you go to www.saabselect.co.uk You need to spend some money on sorting the handling, but even the lpt is swift, and for 500 quid can be taken to 225bhp. The boot is huge, they are comfortable and pretty solid. No where near as pretty or stylish as the alfa though. Sparks

I'll agree Saabs are huge, comfy and safe, just not much fun (even when sorted).

[simongta]

Took delivery of new 2003 spec Sportswagon JTS Veloce last November to replace Spider, which I thought I would really miss. 156 is a fantastic car, already done 10,000 miles and only back to garage once. Engine sounds great and handles extremely well.

[davidd]

what about ecomony? We are tempted by a 2.4jtd, however if we go for a 2.0TS we will get a newer car for the same money.

The car will probably only do 8 or 9 k miles per year split between long motorway runs and poping to the shops. At what point will an oil burner start to pay??

What mpg do people get from the 2.4jts and the 2.0TS??

TIA

D.

[wombat rick]

Million dollar question isn't it? And so many factors affect it!!
I had two 2.0 TS 145's and averaged 23 mpg on my usual mix of driving. In the 2.4 JTD I average 34 - a significant improvement!!! When I (infrequently) get the JTD on a motorway, it averages well into the 40's.
A friend has a 156 JTS and with a calmer approach to his driving gets early 30's typically.
At 9,000 miles a year, it's not going to make a huge difference what you get really.

[davidd]

Doh, 23 and 34 ! I was hoping it would be 30 and 45 !!

How different are they to drive?

Having only driven a 2.4jtd (150) which I thought was pretty good..We will have a go in a 2.0 when we get the chance but I'd be interested in peoples opinions..

Is the oil burner heavy? Do you notice?
Does the oil burner get through the gears quicker?

Ta

D.

[pwig]

David the Alfa salesman at our dealership, has a 16V 2.4 and returns 40mpg doing 100mph down the motorway

[wombat rick]

pwig said:

David the Alfa salesman at our dealership, has a 16V 2.4 and returns 40mpg

That must be a special edition cylinder head!!

[wombat rick]

david said:

Doh, 23 and 34 ! I was hoping it would be 30 and 45 !!

If you don't drive round like your pants are on fire, you will get 30 and 45.

But it is an Alfa....

david said:

How different are they to drive?

A lot. The 2.0 is a revvy zingy engine. It's wonderful, but it's torque is small and produced high up. Something like 130lb ft at 4,000rpm (Made that up, but it's about that). So many people post on the Alfa sites saying there is something "wrong" with their 2.0, but they are just not revving it high enough. It'll sing along at 7,000 rpm all day though.
The 2.4 feels like a big unstressed 4.0 normally aspirated lump. The 10 valve 150bhp model has 225lb ft at 1,800 rpm, and it's like being propelled by a big rubber band. Very relaxed, very easy. Instant oomph.
On everyday roads, the JTD covers the ground much quicker than the TS, and I would not go back to one now.

david said:

I'd be interested in peoples opinions..

Make your own mind up - the UK Alfisti have not embraced diesels at all well, and many have just buried the head in the sand hoping they will go away. And 99% of the Nay sayers haven't driven them...

david said:

Is the oil burner heavy?

Yes. But no heavier than the 2.5 V6.

david said:

Do you notice?

Sometimes you are aware of it. But only in extremes. It changes direction very well, but under hard braking you are aware that you are slowing a big weight. I have the Veloce suspension which is a must. The Lusso can't cope with the torque or the weight and is a disaster unless you are a very sedate driver. The other tweak well worth having is the front strut brace (£100 fitted from the dealer, or cheaper DIY). It stiffens the front end up and reduces the chance of bottoming. Well recommend it.

david said:

Does the oil burner get through the gears quicker?

The gearing is not ideal for sprinting away from standstill to be honest. There is a bit of a gap between 2nd and 3rd. Once you are in third though it is an absolute monster. Or if you feel lazy, leave it in 3rd and do 10mph to 85mph very quickly.