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LeightonBuzzard

Original Poster:

463 posts

63 months

[news] 
Sunday 28th February 2010 quote quote all
To cut a long story short I lost my job for no reason at all. I have never received any warnings, worked for the company for over a year. I was just wondering where I stood; I'm going to get legal advise on the situation as it I want to take my boss to a tribunal. I understand that I have a very good chance against him. I do not wish to work for the company again for MANY reasons, can I still claim another months wages?(Leave?). I've written down events and details of the company which I'll put below.

Thanks

pincher

3,324 posts

102 months

[news] 
Sunday 28th February 2010 quote quote all
You might want to take names and companies out of your post? beer

Piglet

6,058 posts

140 months

[news] 
Sunday 28th February 2010 quote quote all
Sorry...too long to read but you need to get the personal detail out of the post ASAP or PH and you risk being sued for defamation.

missdiane

13,953 posts

134 months

[news] 
Sunday 28th February 2010 quote quote all
I have just deleted that due to naming and shaming rules, however can appreciate how long it took to type that, so am willing to edit the sensitive info out and re post the other information.

missdiane

13,953 posts

134 months

[news] 
Sunday 28th February 2010 quote quote all
This was posted earlier by LeightonBuzzard, I have removed all references and most names, but the rest is intact
This is due to naming and shaming rules. Should still makes sense




Background Information on *** and the companies –

The companies were set up and owned by ****; recently both companies (*** Car sales and *** MOTs – Workshop) have been put into his wife's name. I’m not 100% sure why but according to other ex employees this is because has been declared bankrupt. *** has changed it’s name several times since I’ve been there. It started as ***, then ***, then ***, then ***. I have never received a contract of employment or a written statement of employment even after asking several times.
January this year *** hastily moved from the showroom in *** on 26/01/2010 to a small office in MK with no notice to anybody.
Customers who have bought cars from *** regularly turn up at *** MOT’s complaining saying *** owes them money, has broken promises; some customers have even been unfairly blacklisted because of him. *** has told me stories of how he has taken out warranties in employees names when selling a vehicle to a customer so a few weeks down then line he can make a false claim. Customers have paid *** for a used car warranty which he has taken the money for but never taken the warranty out.
Ex employees have told me that they’re scared to be in the showroom on their own because of the amount of people who go there demanding to see ***. The showroom has had the windows bricked and paint thrown over it and the workshop has had its sign knocked down.
  • * has always been difficult with money; sometimes with my wages I have not received them until 20 days late. January 2010’s wages were late and I received £100 in cash from him and then the rest in 2 chunks. As I had a lot of outgoings in January, I had to change my bank account to an account with an overdraft and cancel direct debits because my wages were late. I wrote a letter to *** requesting my wages which I did not give to him as I received the majority of my wages that day. When I asked him why my wages we late he said that I’d been ‘taking the piss, not doing any work’ and that I always seemed to have money so he never really bothered with my wages! Many people and ex employees have never received money from him, to my knowledge the painter still needs paying from December, he owes a photographer who took pictures for the website, he’s got people in who were paid cash in hand who have not received the money yet, telephone bills, internet, rent, customers, parts suppliers etc the list goes on; this is why I feel I will struggle to get the money he owes me.
I have bought a car from him, paid a deposit (I still have the deposit form)and he had asked to borrow the car and sold it, he then tried paying me back less money than what I’d given him for it!
I have been told to go up ladders many times to change light bulbs, check telephone lines, put up signs and clean CCTV cameras. I understand changing a light bulb has to be done by a qualified electrician and you have to have 3 points of contact on a ladder which most of the time I had two, not being able to use my hands to support myself as they were full!
I’m on an apprenticeship with *** MOTs; as I understand, it is up to *** to provide the correct training and guidance; it is also up to him to find a suitable placement after my dismissal. I have been expected to solely complete tasks above my ability as an apprentice i.e. clutches which is dangerous and run the workshop on my own on Saturday’s. I have also been expected to match book times; I have been told by my college as an apprentice this is not so and that I should have my work supervised.
An employee has told me that when he got sacked he checked his national insurance and tax which he was informed that he has paid none while working for *** MOTs.
Out of the 16 employees to work for *** since I have been there 15 of them have been sacked and the one that didn’t emigrated!



People who have worked for the company –
1. Sacked and re-employed on several occasions at least 4 times
2. Sacked in August 2008 and re-employed January 2010
3. Sacked about Jan 2009
4. Sacked about February 2009
5. Sacked Spring 2009
6. Sacked Spring 2009
7. Emigrated August 2009
8. Sacked October 2009
9. Sacked about November 2009
10. Sacked about November 2009
11. Sacked about November 2009
12. Sacked December 2009 and re-employed January 2010
13. Sacked January 2010
14. Sacked January 2010
15. Sacked February 2010
16. Myself – Sacked February 2010

Events running up to and after my dismissal:

Tuesday 23rd Feb 2010 (17:00hrs) – ** got sacked
Wednesday 24th Feb lunchtime – ** dropped off everyone’s wages. I received my wages of £714.13 (GROSS)(£117.87 short from my previous £832.00 monthly wage) from ***. I questioned *** on this, to which he said wages were nothing to do with him and I was to speak to his father about this matter.
Wednesday 24th Feb CR 14:00hrs – I was asked by *** when I’d finished the SEAT IBIZA to take it to the car wash and pay the cost of £5 from my own money which i refused, knowing I would never get it back.
Wednesday 24th Feb CR 15:00hrs – I finished the SEAT IBIZA and took it to the car wash as told to by *** and then to drop it off at the SALES office. I asked *** why my FEBRUARY wages were short which he answered
“ermm, you had 3 days off for you birds fathers wedding didn’t you?”
This was on 21st and 22nd of December 2009 (2 days) which was taken as holiday. I refreshed his memory of this to which he said he wasn’t sure why my money was short and to ask ***; who has nothing to do with the wages. He told me that I had taken all my holiday allowance for 2009 according to *** diary which I told him he was wrong and all my holiday was recorded in *** MOTs 2009 work diary. He then quickly changed subject and told me Lee had been at the office earlier on and that he’d been demanding his money otherwise he wouldn’t return the keys for the workshop and that *** has put him up against the wall by the neck to which he pointed to the wall beside him. After this I drove a courtesy car back to the workshop. I told *** about what *** had just told me and I rang *** to see if this was true which he said was all a lie. By now it was 16:00hrs. Meanwhile *** had rang and was speaking to ***; she gestured the phone to me to which I hung up to *** and spoke to ***. Straight away he was aggressive and shouting –
“Why you talking on the phone to that ?”
“I was just...”
“And when did he come to get his tools?”
“He got them last night”
“Why the fk did he come and get them last night”
“I don’t know”
“Who was here?”
“I don’t know, I wasn’t here”
“If I find out any of my stuff is missing I’m gonna give you both a fkING slap!”
“Why am I gonna get a slap? What have I done?”
“fk YOU, YOU SNIDEY YOU’RE FIRED”
What?”
“YOU’RE FIRED! NOW fk OFF HOME”
After the phone call I told ** what he’d said and started packing all of my tools and belongings away and locked them up. This took about an hour. At 17:00hrs *** came up to the workshop and I asked why I’d been dismissed and was my cheque going to clear and he told me he didn’t know and he’d send me a letter explaining why. He told me that I would have to pay for the Ford Focus which I borrowed in November with *** permission and the car broke down, I paid for the vehicle to be recovered back to *** MOTs which I didn’t ask to be reimbursed . The accident was due to metal fatigue as a component had failed as I went over a pot hole. They followed up the story by getting me to take pictures of the pothole and ringing the recovery people to ask what has happened.
Thursday 25th Feb 08:30hrs – I turned up for work as usual. Just before 09:00hrs *** rang and spoke to ***, she told him I was there and I then spoke to him on the phone. He said he didn’t know why I came in and there was no point. He said he’ll be there in 10 minutes and I said ok and I’m not there for a shouting match I want a civilised conversation. Not long after *** turned up. He said he still didn’t know why his dad had made this decision and that he won’t’ change his mind. *** kept ringing and was asking *** did he want him to come down and *** told him several times to go to the office and he’d be there in 5 minutes. I told him that if I’d appeal against his decision then I would have to have a meeting with somebody higher than him and that would me *** wife *** would have be there as the companies were in here name. *** said that this is bks and the companies were in his name. I told him that I was entitled to another month’s wages whether I worked it or not, he said that he knew about this and what the company usually do is just pay it. I said to *** I wanted to find out why *** had made this decision and that I wanted to talk to him. *** said ok just go to the office now then, so I did.
Thursday 25th Feb 09:30hrs – I arrived at the Sales office where *** was already there talking on the phone. After the phone call he said there’s nothing to talk about and that I’m finished. He asked why I’d come to work today and I told him that I’d been advised to (several friends, family and acas). He was aggressive and angry while he said:
“By who? Michael and his Ford Escort with his 2 bob house in MK? You listen to these people with no money and you get nowhere in life, I’ve got more money than you, try taking me to a tribunal and I’ll win, I’m more powerful than you and I’ve taken on much bigger people than you before.”
He told me that he is knows Michael’s new boss** and that ** has told him that he’s a useless and that the only reason he has got him there as he is an MOT tester. (I know this is a lie; there is nobody called *** there and Michael isn’t even doing MOTs there yet.)
He asked me why I was on my phone to *** the previous day and that I shouldn’t be as he hates him and that I was supposed to be working not on my phone. I told *** (the manager) that I was going to call ***(she never said I couldn’t and I was to tell her what he said) and ask him whether ** had him up by the neck, the phone call lasted less than 1 minuet. He told me that ** was a good for nothing and that he will send 4 big people to E and E on Tuesday morning to ‘sought him out’. He also told me that I had lied and cheated and I was useless. He told me not to bother asking for a reference as he wouldn’t give me one. I tried to ask him several times why he made the decision about dismissing me which he avoided and I asked him to listen to me which he replied:
“Well no, I don’t want to and I don’t have to; you’re finished, it’s over”
After this he told me to fk of several times as he had work to do; feeling as if I really wasn’t getting anywhere I left.
Friday 26th Feb 10:20hrs - I got a missed call from the show room office (01908 **) I returned the call and ** answered. He mentioned that his dad has been in a pissed off mood recently and he is still unsure why his father gave me the sack and the only thing he could think of was that I still spoke to ** & **. He also said that if ** wasn’t his father he wouldn’t be working there. He asked me if I was going to pay the bill for the Ford Focus in which I asked why I should have to and it’s not up to me to pay for it.
Friday 26th Feb Lunchtime – *** called me from the workshop asking where the weight hammer to change tires.
Friday 26th Feb 16:45hrs – I got a call from a withheld number. It was Theo asking where Alan’s power probe was and where the diagnostic lead for Mercedes/BMW was. I told him I didn’t know and he said that if they weren’t found, nothing of mine would leave the workshop. He asked me when I was next going to be up there but I told him I didn’t know.

Money ** owes me:

Holiday pay = ‘The minimum statutory holiday entitlement is 5.6 weeks annually from 1 April 2009 (28 days for a worker working a five-day week). However, the entitlement is capped at 28 days. If a worker works more than five days a week, they are not entitled to more than 28 days leave unless you have allowed this in their contract of employment’ – online.businesslink.gov.uk

From 1st Jan 2009 – 31st Dec 2009 I had 17.5 days holiday before public holidays

My holiday hours calculated from:
http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/layer?...
Monthly Pay of £832.00 x 12 months = £9984.00 annual wage
£9984 / 52 weeks = £192.00 per week/42hr week = £4.57ph
starting from 1st Jan 2010 until 24th Feb 2010 = 34.8hrs entitled holiday
34.8hrs x £4.57ph = £159.04GROSS

I am entitled to another months wages (Leave) having worked the hours or not = £832.00GROSS

Being dismissed on 24th Feb means I am entitled to a further an extra month on holiday included in my leave:
One month of holiday (from 24th Feb 2010 to 23rd March 2010) = 17.4hrs entitled holiday
17.4hrs x £4.57ph = £79.52GROSS

February’s wages were short by £117.87GROSS

From the above calculation I’ve worked out that *** owes me: £1188.43GROSS

Things I have suffered:
• Unfair dismissal
• Verbal abuse
• Stress over the situation
• Losing sleep thinking about it over and over again
• Worry about paying rent, direct debits
• Having to change my bank account type, losing a higher interest rate
• Time, writing letters, getting legal advise
• Spending thousands on tools for the trade which I won’t use again as this was my 1st taste of the motor trade in a workshop environment and I feel it will be like this everywhere else

Edited by missdiane on Sunday 28th February 19:27

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LeightonBuzzard

Original Poster:

463 posts

63 months

[news] 
Sunday 28th February 2010 quote quote all
missdiane said:
I have just deleted that due to naming and shaming rules, however can appreciate how long it took to type that, so am willing to edit the sensitive info out and re post the other information.
thank you very much!

missdiane

13,953 posts

134 months

[news] 
Sunday 28th February 2010 quote quote all
Though after reading all that, sounds like you are better off out of it, better to speak to a legal about it.
Also sounds like he/she is having cash flow issues.
Surely the first things you pay is rent, bills and wages

LeightonBuzzard

Original Poster:

463 posts

63 months

[news] 
Sunday 28th February 2010 quote quote all
missdiane said:
Though after reading all that, sounds like you are better off out of it, better to speak to a legal about it.
Also sounds like he/she is having cash flow issues.
Surely the first things you pay is rent, bills and wages
you would have thought so... I don't know what I'm gonna put on my CV now about that job... I know that the account was overdrawn a few days ago and cheques regulaly bounce but that's about all i know finacially.
Thanks again

dilbert

7,738 posts

116 months

[news] 
Sunday 28th February 2010 quote quote all
LeightonBuzzard said:
missdiane said:
Though after reading all that, sounds like you are better off out of it, better to speak to a legal about it.
Also sounds like he/she is having cash flow issues.
Surely the first things you pay is rent, bills and wages
you would have thought so... I don't know what I'm gonna put on my CV now about that job... I know that the account was overdrawn a few days ago and cheques regulaly bounce but that's about all i know finacially.
Thanks again
I had something like this happen to me. Perhaps not quite so severe, but the same basic thing.
I wish that my employer had told me that they were making people redundant, almost on the same day they agreed to employ me. Certainly I'd have thought twice about accepting the offer of employment if I'd known.

It does stick around on your CV, and it's always difficult to know what to say to potential employers. It's too late for me now. I walked away thinking it would be better for me not to make a fuss. Who's going to employ someone with a history at the employment tribunal?

Anyhow, I just say I was made redundant. If they ask I have to tell them, but it never goes down well. There are two outcomes; They either think you're a st for making your ex-employer look bad, or they think you're a st for getting fired.

No-one will employ me anyway! hehe So I'd have been better off dragging them through the mud. These days they advertise on their ethical credentials.

Don't let it go. The only way out is to pin the st on the employer, so everyone knows it was the employer and not the employee. For you that's not too bad, because you can be pretty sure your employer doesn't have any dosh. For me, the MD sold up, and the company is now owned by a wealthy American parent. No chance.

Edited by dilbert on Sunday 28th February 20:08

GSP

1,856 posts

89 months

[news] 
Monday 1st March 2010 quote quote all
That sounds like a bad situation.

Lets be honest, you are going to be able to get a job anywhere that pays more than you are currently getting so it's not a big loss.

Are this chaps cars stored outside. If so I know what I would be doing to get my moneys worth. If he's not going to give you the money your owed, make sure he has to spend it fixing cars.

williamp

12,387 posts

158 months

[news] 
Monday 1st March 2010 quote quote all
Talk to ACAS. You wre unfairly dismissed. The very fact that they didnt follow procedures means you will win, regardless of what he says. And you'll get some money from it

A tribunal here we come...

Jasper Gilder

2,027 posts

158 months

[news] 
Monday 1st March 2010 quote quote all
williamp said:
Talk to ACAS. You wre unfairly dismissed. The very fact that they didnt follow procedures means you will win, regardless of what he says. And you'll get some money from it

A tribunal here we come...
Damn right you have 3 months to apply to the Tribunal

You must have been employed for 12 months or more. Tribunals take a dim view of people messing around with apprentices

Rest assured the rest of the trade isn't like this - go have a chat with Autocraft in Houghton Regis or have a chat with a dealership

DSM2

3,624 posts

85 months

[news] 
Monday 1st March 2010 quote quote all
williamp said:
Talk to ACAS. You wre unfairly dismissed. The very fact that they didnt follow procedures means you will win, regardless of what he says. And you'll get some money from it

A tribunal here we come...
You're right in all except, IMO, that he'll get any money out of it.

£ to a penny the firm will be bust and extinct before any tribunal comes round.


LeightonBuzzard

Original Poster:

463 posts

63 months

[news] 
Tuesday 2nd March 2010 quote quote all
I have just received a letter today with a bill for £759 which was a Ford Focus courtesy car I had an accident in back in November! All that happened was that i went through a pot hole and the bottom ball joint went, no one else was involved. I evan paid for recovery out of my own pocket; I thought insurance would have covered this? And am I intitled to pay this? I have stuck to the correct procedure of dealing with the situation so far. i have heard from 2 people that i do not have to pay this; i might have to pay for the insurance excess though?
Also i do want to take him to a tribunal as i beleive this could be in with a good case; i was told that tribunals are government run and people working on commission so any story that involved tax dodging they will crack down on. Thanks for the 3 months information on tribunals; this will help a lot.
My nearest tribunal is bedford, do they give legal advise as i want to speak to somebody about this, i have tried ACAS with not a great deal of help, i will ring and try to speak to somebpdy else.

Muzzer

3,814 posts

106 months

[news] 
Tuesday 2nd March 2010 quote quote all
OP - speak to your local CAB, explain everything that's happened and they'll point you in the right direction.

If you've worked there a reasonable length of time it sounds like you have a good case but be prepared to not get anything financial out of this - as previously posted, the company will be long bust before court.

Mrs Trackside

9,299 posts

118 months

[news] 
Tuesday 2nd March 2010 quote quote all
Goodness, all I can say is I really feel for you. I was in a similar situation with the employer before my present one, although not quite as bad as your situation. I know the stress it causes, especially when you're working longer hours for no thanks in an effort to try and keep the company going and then you get stitched up and told it's your own fault! This man sounds like a bully who gets what he wants from intimidating people, and I'm willing to bet most people don't stand up to him which is why he carries on getting away with it.

With regards to the invoice for the car, I would tell him that you're not going to pay it, he's had three months to invoice you if he felt you should pay and if he wants to take you to court for it, you'll be more than happy to meet him there. From what you've said it sounds like he was lucky YOU borrowed the car and not a customer who may well have sued him for supplying an unsafe vehicle.

Regarding the tribunal, I'm afraid I have no idea. I couldn't wait to get out of the company I worked for and was lucky enough to walk straight into another job, which I love.

In relation to your CV, if you stay in the car trade, you'll probably find that most people in the trade already know about this employer and his ethics; you'll probably be asked why you stayed so long! Alternatively, you could just put that you were made redundant - it doesn't sound like he'll be in business for much longer.

Good luck.

Edited to add: I take it the courtesy car had been MOT'd? because doesn't that invalidate your insurance if it isn't? And isn't that illegal - especially if you're lending the car to customers who could potentially have an accident and find there own insurance isn't valid!

Edited by Mrs Trackside on Tuesday 2nd March 10:04


2nd edit: Make sure you get your tools back. They're your property and he has no right to keep them. I suspect he will sell them but you won't see the cash!

Edited by Mrs Trackside on Tuesday 2nd March 10:06

peej1981

12 posts

54 months

[news] 
Tuesday 2nd March 2010 quote quote all
Sounds like you have already won this, you really have to be carful what you post on this website or any other, the company can use this as you exploting and bad naming the company even though you havnt said thier name or named people. I was recently involved in the same situation and took legal advise and i had to be very carful about what i said to anyone. I would advise seeking legal advise asap and see where you stand. You have 3 months after you have been sacked to apply for tribunal, then they have 14 days to write back to the tribunal otherwise they will be in serious trouble. It is also quiet normal for the settlement to be conducted outside of the tribunal as no company wants to be dragged through the dirt by them as a tribunal will look at everything that the company has done and question anything that looks dodge which looks like a lot to me, it would also cost a lot of money for a company to go to a tribunal and they really need to make sure that they are in the right otherwise they foot the cost and the settlment which could lead to thousands of pounds. If you are going to try and take them to a tribunal then try and get as much as you can out of them, if you only want a months wages i would ask for 6 months or even more for the distress they have put you through. A tribunal is always in faviour of you as they will only accept a tribunal if they think that there is something there to look into. My brother is a solicitor and he dealt with mine and i got a very good settlment, plus a good referance from my old employer. If you want i could pass on his details to you and he would tell you what to do next and were you stand? If you said i refered you he would do it asap and do you a really good deal? Highly recommended.

LeightonBuzzard

Original Poster:

463 posts

63 months

[news] 
Thursday 4th March 2010 quote quote all
peej1981 said:
Sounds like you have already won this, you really have to be carful what you post on this website or any other, the company can use this as you exploting and bad naming the company even though you havnt said thier name or named people. I was recently involved in the same situation and took legal advise and i had to be very carful about what i said to anyone. I would advise seeking legal advise asap and see where you stand. You have 3 months after you have been sacked to apply for tribunal, then they have 14 days to write back to the tribunal otherwise they will be in serious trouble. It is also quiet normal for the settlement to be conducted outside of the tribunal as no company wants to be dragged through the dirt by them as a tribunal will look at everything that the company has done and question anything that looks dodge which looks like a lot to me, it would also cost a lot of money for a company to go to a tribunal and they really need to make sure that they are in the right otherwise they foot the cost and the settlment which could lead to thousands of pounds. If you are going to try and take them to a tribunal then try and get as much as you can out of them, if you only want a months wages i would ask for 6 months or even more for the distress they have put you through. A tribunal is always in faviour of you as they will only accept a tribunal if they think that there is something there to look into. My brother is a solicitor and he dealt with mine and i got a very good settlment, plus a good referance from my old employer. If you want i could pass on his details to you and he would tell you what to do next and were you stand? If you said i refered you he would do it asap and do you a really good deal? Highly recommended.
If you could give me infomation I would be extemely greatful, thank you. email me?

Thanks

LeightonBuzzard

Original Poster:

463 posts

63 months

[news] 
Thursday 4th March 2010 quote quote all
O and another thing; when i collect my tools does he have to right to look through them? And I'm the only person who knows the password to the diagnostic laptop; do i have to give him the password if I'm asked for it?

bogwoppit

691 posts

66 months

[news] 
Friday 5th March 2010 quote quote all
LeightonBuzzard said:
O and another thing; when i collect my tools does he have to right to look through them? And I'm the only person who knows the password to the diagnostic laptop; do i have to give him the password if I'm asked for it?
If you were still working there you'd have to, but I guess there's nothing to require you to now. But, ask yourself is it worth it? Take the higher ground and it will work out better for you.

Oh, and invoice him for the recovery costs.
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