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Kevin VRs

Original Poster:

6,084 posts

164 months

[news] 
Wednesday 26th May 2010 quote quote all
Hi All,

I am a tenant with a 12 month tenancy agreement. The landlord refuses to allow me to request a water meter installation. The water charges are £400+ in this property without a meter. In my last property I used less than 60 cubic metres in the 12 months. This would cost around £150 where I am now.

The local provider has sent me the request papers and it states the landlord should sign if less than 6 months tenancy.

Could somebosy advise me whether this means I can get the meter installed anyway, despite the landlord refusal. I do not see why I should pay more than twice as much because he is a 'dinosaur'.

Many thanks in advance.

Edited by Kevin VRs on Wednesday 26th May 10:42

superlightr

6,921 posts

147 months

[news] 
Wednesday 26th May 2010 quote quote all
Kevin VRs said:
Hi All,

I am a tenant with a 12 month tenancy agreement. The landlord refuses to allow me to request a water meter installation. The water charges are £400+ in this property without a meter. In my last property I used less than 60 cubic metres in the 12 months. This would cost around £150 where I am now.

The local provider has sent me the request papers and it states the landlord should sign if less than 6 months tenancy.

Could somebosy advise me whether this means I can get the meter installed anyway, despite the landlord refusal. I do not see why I should pay more than twice as much because he is a 'dinosaur'.

Many thanks in advance.

Edited by Kevin VRs on Wednesday 26th May 10:42
What have you agreed in your tenancy agreement?
Why do you think you should be able to alter his property without his consent.

You are renting - go and buy a property if you want control of the property. (in the nicest way possible) smilesmile

ps did you know that once a meter is installed it cant be uninstalled. its permanant. perhaps the landlord used a lot of water but just got billed a flat rate, maybe he will be moving back in at some stage.
Meters help low useage but not high use.

smile
smile smileys as my reply sounded short. smile





Edited by superlightr on Wednesday 26th May 13:04


Edited by superlightr on Wednesday 26th May 13:09

Simpo Two

59,490 posts

149 months

[news] 
Wednesday 26th May 2010 quote quote all
Kevin VRs said:
Could somebosy advise me whether this means I can get the meter installed anyway, despite the landlord refusal.
Well, the landlord owns the property, you don't, so I imagine that as long as he's not breaking the law or your contract, then he gets to decide.

He will have a reason even if he hasn't told you - for example, he may feel that a water meter is a negative point for tenants.

Mr Overheads

1,230 posts

60 months

[news] 
Wednesday 26th May 2010 quote quote all
In the nicest possible way you should leave the landlord's property as is. It is HIS property not yours.

When you chose to sign a tenancy agreement you presumably asked "how much is the council tax, what furniture is included etc etc". It's your fault you didn't ask how much the water bill was, you are now in a contract and if the landlord doesn't want to change his property to suit you then that is his right.

At the end of your tenancy find somewhere else or if you want to stay because you like the property/location etc just see the extra £250 as an extra £250 rent per year.

Engineer1

10,409 posts

93 months

[news] 
Wednesday 26th May 2010 quote quote all
+1 the moment you put a water meter in it's there for life, so you may save but it could put the next tenant off or cause him more trouble.
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SJobson

8,570 posts

148 months

[news] 
Wednesday 26th May 2010 quote quote all
If the water company won't allow you to do it because your tenancy is for no more than 6 months, it's entirely at the landlord's discretion.

BTW, depending on local water supplier, there are some entitlements to go back to an RV based charge. You need to check what your supplier says.

JustinP1

11,125 posts

114 months

[news] 
Wednesday 26th May 2010 quote quote all
Kevin VRs said:
Could somebosy advise me whether this means I can get the meter installed anyway, despite the landlord refusal. I do not see why I should pay more than twice as much because he is a 'dinosaur'.
If it is the dinosaur's house then it is his choice whether he has a meter.

If you buy a house, you can decide whether you have a meter.

If you don't like paying water charges not on a meter, don't rent a house without a meter.

Scraggles

7,619 posts

108 months

[news] 
Wednesday 26th May 2010 quote quote all
OP seems to be a muppet, he moves in knowing the house has a mater fitted and for the sake of 12 months rent time wants to shaft the landlord who might well be able to rent to single people, but might struggle to rent to families after one is fitted


currently paying £9 per month, so that is a bit more than the rateable value he is paying, which with hindsight seems to have gone up a bit from the £5 that i was paying in 2005, but moved in 2001 or so...

Simpo Two

59,490 posts

149 months

[news] 
Wednesday 26th May 2010 quote quote all
Scraggles said:
he moves in knowing the house has a mater fitted
And a pater we trust!

Kevin VRs

Original Poster:

6,084 posts

164 months

[news] 
Thursday 27th May 2010 quote quote all
Just to clear up a few things.

I rent because it is not practical to buy since my wife and I both work in the contract market and move around the country every 6-12 months based on the contracts we win.

We did not know until after signing the contract that there was no meter (nearly all prpoerties now have them), it is a question I have now added to the list.

The question I am asking is looking for a legal response, perhaps I did not word the original post very well, so here goes again:

Is there a legal requirement for a landlord to allow a water meter where there is a long-term contract (greater than 6 months). I ask this because it is implied in the correspondence from the water company. If so I would like a link to the law concerned.

Many thanks.

superlightr

6,921 posts

147 months

[news] 
Thursday 27th May 2010 quote quote all
Kevin VRs said:
Is there a legal requirement for a landlord to allow a water meter where there is a long-term contract (greater than 6 months). I ask this because it is implied in the correspondence from the water company. If so I would like a link to the law concerned.

Many thanks.
No - your tenancy agreement governs what you can and can't do in your Landlords property.

Unless you can find legislation proving a contrary rule. ie LL& T ACT, or another ACT, Its up to you to find the legislation (if one exists) saying you can install a meter against the Landlords wishes..

BTW - Im in the letting business and uptodate (hopefully) on the legislation. So please prove me wrong (Im allways looking to learn more)

superlightr

6,921 posts

147 months

[news] 
Thursday 27th May 2010 quote quote all
Kevin VRs said:
.

We did not know until after signing the contract that there was no meter (nearly all prpoerties now have them), it is a question I have now added to the list. Many thanks.
No they dont. Most of the few hundreds we look after dont have water meters.

Next you will be saying you are entitled to TV reception/aerial/........ hint next time you rent make sure the tv aerial is connected and working or has a sky dish and cables installed as there is no obligation for a LL to provide entertainment/tv reception. Thats a hint for the future for you to add to your list of questions smile

Edited by superlightr on Thursday 27th May 12:08


Edited by superlightr on Thursday 27th May 12:10

Kevin VRs

Original Poster:

6,084 posts

164 months

[news] 
Thursday 27th May 2010 quote quote all
Thanks SuperlightR, that is the kind of answer I was looking for. As mentioned before the paperwork from the water company implied that if it was a longer term lease I did not need the landlord's permission.

I have now been in 7 rented properties in the last four years, only one other has not had a meter for the water. When I was in the Herts/Essex area the water company told me they always fitted a meter when a house was sold if it did not have one, they also implied this was a legal thing.

As regards TV etc, I always check what is available at the property.

Mr Overheads

1,230 posts

60 months

[news] 
Thursday 27th May 2010 quote quote all
Kevin

As a landlord I would hate to have you as a tenant. Looking for a legal loophole to stuff the landlord against his wishes when you're going to move on in 6 months to a year anyway.

Chalk it up to experience, you've learnt that you should check whether a property is metered or rated, but don't make the landlord pay long term for your naivety by reducing the rentability of his property to higher water users.

In relative terms anyway what are we talking a difference of a £200 quid at most over the 6 months and with both you and your wife contracting that must be less than half a days income.




Engineer1

10,409 posts

93 months

[news] 
Thursday 27th May 2010 quote quote all
There is a move towards fitting Water Meters when houses change hands but if the property hasn't changed ownership and the owner doesn't want a meter then you don't have to have a meter.

cs02rm0

10,981 posts

75 months

[news] 
Thursday 27th May 2010 quote quote all
Either way, expect to find yourself served notice if the landlord finds out.

Four Cofffee

11,286 posts

119 months

[news] 
Thursday 27th May 2010 quote quote all
I recall when we had our WM fitted you could ask for it to be removed within a period for the payment of a £100 fee???

If that is the deal and you agree to cover that cost the landlord might relebnt but if his next tenant is a family or is growing cannbis in the loft hydroponically they may not favour a meter.

JustinP1

11,125 posts

114 months

[news] 
Thursday 27th May 2010 quote quote all
Kevin VRs said:
We did not know until after signing the contract that there was no meter (nearly all prpoerties now have them)...
Kevin VRs said:
I have now been in 7 rented properties in the last four years, only one other has not had a meter for the water.
Surely an 'old hand' who has had exactly the same situation before in recent history ask beforehand if they were unsure?

Regardless of this, myself and the wife are pretty low users of water too, and we just paid £240 for 6 months on a meter and that is being careful not to waste it and even using the shower rather than bath etc.

I would happily swop to paying £200 for as much as I wanted.

robsti

5,545 posts

90 months

[news] 
Thursday 27th May 2010 quote quote all
Do you have to have a water meter fitted if the water authority wants to fit one (non domestic)or can it be refused (Scotland)?

Kevin VRs

Original Poster:

6,084 posts

164 months

[news] 
Saturday 29th May 2010 quote quote all
JustinP1 said:
Regardless of this, myself and the wife are pretty low users of water too, and we just paid £240 for 6 months on a meter and that is being careful not to waste it and even using the shower rather than bath etc.

I would happily swop to paying £200 for as much as I wanted.
Blimey, my last 10 months water bill was less than £200. We used less than 5 cu m a month. What charge per cubic meter was that?

Obviously we will not have a meter fitted without the landlord's consent, what I was trying to find out was whether he was legally obliged to let us fit one.

As a matter of interest we are considered model tenants by our previous landlords, we take good care of the property and generally return it in better condition than when we moved in.
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