RE: Fast Audi A1s Could Be On The Way
Tuesday 15th June 2010
Remember the Quattro-liveried Audi A1 concept from a month or so back? Well it seems Audi does, and a fast A1 might be more than just a concept - folks at Ingolstadt are investigating the possibilities for a hot version of its baby hatchback.
Fast Audi A1s Could Be On The Way
Audi 'exploring performance options' for A1
PH editor Chris-R is currently in Berlin on the Audi A1 press launch, and has phoned up the PH office with the intriguing news that the all-wheel drive hardware from the Audi A3 - and its faster four-cylinder engines - could fit into the A1.
"We are definitely exploring some of these performance options," Said Lars Adler, head of A1 product marketing, to Chris-R, "but first we have to be confident that a market exists."
The transverse four-cylinder engines from the 'A' (Audi A3) platform will drop into the AO (Audi A1) platform with little trouble, although the quattro all-wheel-drive system would have to be adapted to fit the supermini - although Audi knows it could be done.
Don't go heading down to your local Audi dealer to pop a deposit down on a 208bhp, four-wheel-drive A1 2.0T just yet though. Even if it does happen, fast A1s will take at least four years to get to market.
Discussion
dr_rallye said:
It'd be a very interesting proposition if they manage to get this into production. There's already been talk of an S1, but this opens up the scope for an RS1. I'd be interested in one of those...
Umm an A1, which will likely be the size and weigh of previous A3's, so a smaller number, but still a big flabby car pretending to be a small hatch.Or maybe I'm just fickle....
208bhp?! I don't mean to put a dampener on things, but surely an A1 with the quattro system from the A3 is going to be at least 1400kg and therefore with 208bhp could hardly be described as "fast"? To have the legs on other VAG products such as the Golf R or competitors such as the 1M (if it arrives) or even the 135i, this A1 is going to need north of 300bhp surely?
300bhp/ton said:
dr_rallye said:
It'd be a very interesting proposition if they manage to get this into production. There's already been talk of an S1, but this opens up the scope for an RS1. I'd be interested in one of those...
Umm an A1, which will likely be the size and weigh of previous A3's, so a smaller number, but still a big flabby car pretending to be a small hatch.Or maybe I'm just fickle....
A modern car with crumple zones, air bags and creature comforts is not going to match your TR7 for weight.
edo said:
300bhp/ton said:
dr_rallye said:
It'd be a very interesting proposition if they manage to get this into production. There's already been talk of an S1, but this opens up the scope for an RS1. I'd be interested in one of those...
Umm an A1, which will likely be the size and weigh of previous A3's, so a smaller number, but still a big flabby car pretending to be a small hatch.Or maybe I'm just fickle....
A modern car with crumple zones, air bags and creature comforts is not going to match your TR7 for weight.
As for the TR7, it's no lightweight, about 1000kg with a 2.0 and 4 speed drivetrain and heavier for a V8 with a 5 speed drivetrain. That said, it was actually built to meet roll over safety standards which where never actually enforced.
edo said:
In standard form it weighs a gnats whisker over 1 tonne. Less than a mini cooper by a reasonable 10% (1.1 Tonnes).
That surprises me; I take back what I said above in that case. I'm guessing abouit 1250kg with the quattro system. Still, 208bhp will be at the crank, and with typical Quattro drivetrain losses I still reckon it'll need at least 260bhp to be entertaining.RobM77 said:
edo said:
In standard form it weighs a gnats whisker over 1 tonne. Less than a mini cooper by a reasonable 10% (1.1 Tonnes).
That surprises me; I take back what I said above in that case. I'm guessing abouit 1250kg with the quattro system. Still, 208bhp will be at the crank, and with typical Quattro drivetrain losses I still reckon it'll need at least 260bhp to be entertaining.
t "contango said:
Stick the 2.0 Tdi up front with 200bhp,,,I know you are all hating the idea, but needs some thought after yet another Lemans tdi white wash, it won't be long before the sporty option is a torquey diesel, wonder if they will ever make an RSTdi ???
I thought the same thing during Le Mans, I should imagine a TDI powered RS Audi isn't far off. I seem to remember they did an R8 TDI concept not long ago.Riggers said:
RobM77 said:
edo said:
In standard form it weighs a gnats whisker over 1 tonne. Less than a mini cooper by a reasonable 10% (1.1 Tonnes).
That surprises me; I take back what I said above in that case. I'm guessing abouit 1250kg with the quattro system. Still, 208bhp will be at the crank, and with typical Quattro drivetrain losses I still reckon it'll need at least 260bhp to be entertaining.
my fault!On a similar note, I'm trying to find out about an M 1 series at the moment. That story was doing the rounds a while ago but the press seemed to have gone quiet about it.
RobM77 said:
Riggers said:
RobM77 said:
edo said:
In standard form it weighs a gnats whisker over 1 tonne. Less than a mini cooper by a reasonable 10% (1.1 Tonnes).
That surprises me; I take back what I said above in that case. I'm guessing abouit 1250kg with the quattro system. Still, 208bhp will be at the crank, and with typical Quattro drivetrain losses I still reckon it'll need at least 260bhp to be entertaining. my fault!On a similar note, I'm trying to find out about an M 1 series at the moment. That story was doing the rounds a while ago but the press seemed to have gone quiet about it.
That was PH editor Chris-R doing some genuine investigative journalism there...On 1-series note, it is definitely happening - see here for details: http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyI...
va1o said:
contango said:
Stick the 2.0 Tdi up front with 200bhp,,,I know you are all hating the idea, but needs some thought after yet another Lemans tdi white wash, it won't be long before the sporty option is a torquey diesel, wonder if they will ever make an RSTdi ???
I thought the same thing during Le Mans, I should imagine a TDI powered RS Audi isn't far off. I seem to remember they did an R8 TDI concept not long ago.Personally I say sod it to only a 2.0 TDI, what we need is a car maker with big enough balls to produce something more fun.
Where is the BMW Z4 335d with a slight performance tweek?
What about a GM based 2 or 2+2 coupe with their 6.6 litre V8 diesel?
Or Ford with their 6.7
Or Jag with the 3.6 TDV8 or 4.4 variant muted.
Riggers said:
RobM77 said:
Riggers said:
RobM77 said:
edo said:
In standard form it weighs a gnats whisker over 1 tonne. Less than a mini cooper by a reasonable 10% (1.1 Tonnes).
That surprises me; I take back what I said above in that case. I'm guessing abouit 1250kg with the quattro system. Still, 208bhp will be at the crank, and with typical Quattro drivetrain losses I still reckon it'll need at least 260bhp to be entertaining. my fault!On a similar note, I'm trying to find out about an M 1 series at the moment. That story was doing the rounds a while ago but the press seemed to have gone quiet about it.
That was PH editor Chris-R doing some genuine investigative journalism there...On 1-series note, it is definitely happening - see here for details: http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyI...
Sorry Thanks for the link. I've been on holiday for two weeks so missed that.
edo said:
300bhp/ton said:
dr_rallye said:
It'd be a very interesting proposition if they manage to get this into production. There's already been talk of an S1, but this opens up the scope for an RS1. I'd be interested in one of those...
Umm an A1, which will likely be the size and weigh of previous A3's, so a smaller number, but still a big flabby car pretending to be a small hatch.Or maybe I'm just fickle....
A modern car with crumple zones, air bags and creature comforts is not going to match your TR7 for weight.
"
6.1.1. Mass of the vehicle
6.1.1.1. The mass of the vehicle is the mass in running order, as defined in 6.1.1.2, plus 180 kg, or plus half the full load if that figure exceeds 180 kg, including measuring equipment and occupants. The suspension height of the vehicle is that obtained when the centre of gravity of the load is in the middle of the straight line joining the R points of the front (side) seats.
6.1.1.2. For the purposes of this Directive, "mass of the vehicle in running order" means its total unladen mass with all tanks except the fuel tank full, the fuel tank being filled to 90 % of the capacity specified by the manufacturer, and with a set of tools and the spare wheel on board.
"
Audi say the gross weight limit of the base A1 is 1490kg .. so:
1040kg - 225kg (half of the full load) - 30kg (for 90% of 45 litres tank) = 785kg unladen (no fuel or EU additions)
Base MINI (online numbers) is 1135kg to EU2 spec, where EU2:
"²The figure quoted includes a 90% tank filling, 68 kg for the driver and 7 kg for luggage."
So .. 1135kg - 27kg (90% of 40 litre tank) - 68kg - 7kg = 1033 kg
= nearly 250kg less for the A1, which seems amazing (/impossible), or someone has got their figures wrong!
Edited by danp on Tuesday 15th June 17:31
Edited by danp on Tuesday 15th June 17:32
va1o said:
danp said:
which seems amazing, or someone has got their figures wrong!
Nope not wrong. All the latest cars are coming out weighing less than their predecessors' it seems, which can only be a good thing.I'd be astounded if the A1 weighs within 100kg of a Toyota Aygo/Pug 107/Citroen C1. (which would appear to be 890kg, not sure to which measure)
Edited by danp on Tuesday 15th June 17:47
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