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RobM77

24,998 posts

118 months

[news] 
Friday 24th September 2010 quote quote all
Does anyone know which issue of Evo the mk1 vs mk2 comparison was in? I've got a night in tonight and fancy a good read smile Also, the mk1 on the Targa Florio course was a superb article by R. Meaden. Sorry to be a pain, but can anyone remember which issues they were in? ta smile

rlw

2,380 posts

121 months

[news] 
Friday 24th September 2010 quote quote all
RobM77 said:
Does anyone know which issue of Evo the mk1 vs mk2 comparison was in? I've got a night in tonight and fancy a good read smile Also, the mk1 on the Targa Florio course was a superb article by R. Meaden. Sorry to be a pain, but can anyone remember which issues they were in? ta smile
tell you later as its in the pile next to the bed and I'm at work right now - also nice to see someone else as sad as me........................

christer

2,802 posts

135 months

[news] 
Friday 24th September 2010 quote quote all
Steve Rance said:
There has been a lot of poorly written comparisons between these cars over the years.
According to who?

rlw

2,380 posts

121 months

[news] 
Friday 24th September 2010 quote quote all
monthefish said:
drmark said:
The Mk1 is the original and cheapest - Clubsport probably the best spec - and a fraction lighter.
The comfort spec GT3 was heavier than the base Carrera - was the Clubsport lighter than the Carrera?

rlw said:
drmark said:
Downside is they look like every other 996 with a body kit, and have the same iffy build quality (material and fit and finish were much improved in the later 996s), and they are up to 6 years older so more likely to need new rads, bushes, diff etc.
They don't look like every other 996 in Zanzibar red and lowered even more...............
How much lower is the GT3 than the std Carrera?
My lip spoiler is 75mm off the ground if that helps - whatever, its very low but I think the trailing edge of the front PU is as low or lower and very vulnerable

Pugley

566 posts

76 months

[news] 
Friday 24th September 2010 quote quote all
My front lip has long ago worn awayfrown But I can confrim that the front and rear jacking points are 10cm from the ground.

Basically anything higher than a coke can on its side is likely to hit something. The Front PU just in ahead of the wheels on each side seem to take the worst of it.

It this really becomes an issue a standard 996 bumper will fit and make life just a little less risky. If you have to travel through a speed hump zone regularly then this may be a workable solution (then you can save the original PU for selling or show days)
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JamieG

869 posts

109 months

[news] 
Friday 24th September 2010 quote quote all
RobM77 said:
Does anyone know which issue of Evo the mk1 vs mk2 comparison was in? I've got a night in tonight and fancy a good read smile Also, the mk1 on the Targa Florio course was a superb article by R. Meaden. Sorry to be a pain, but can anyone remember which issues they were in? ta smile
evo issue 66 'the Greatest Drivers' Cars'


RobM77

24,998 posts

118 months

[news] 
Friday 24th September 2010 quote quote all
JamieG said:
RobM77 said:
Does anyone know which issue of Evo the mk1 vs mk2 comparison was in? I've got a night in tonight and fancy a good read smile Also, the mk1 on the Targa Florio course was a superb article by R. Meaden. Sorry to be a pain, but can anyone remember which issues they were in? ta smile
evo issue 66 'the Greatest Drivers' Cars'
Thanks very much. Is that the mk1 vs mk2 comparison or the Targa Florio article? (aren't you glad he avoided the obvious and took a GT3 instead of a C2 Targa? hehe).

RobM77

24,998 posts

118 months

[news] 
Friday 24th September 2010 quote quote all
rlw said:
RobM77 said:
Does anyone know which issue of Evo the mk1 vs mk2 comparison was in? I've got a night in tonight and fancy a good read smile Also, the mk1 on the Targa Florio course was a superb article by R. Meaden. Sorry to be a pain, but can anyone remember which issues they were in? ta smile
tell you later as its in the pile next to the bed and I'm at work right now - also nice to see someone else as sad as me........................
hehe I've got every Evo since issue one. Knowing which magazine to pick up is somewhat difficult though. It can take a very long time to find an article!

If the article you mean is not the one in issue 66 then it'd be great to know which issue to look for.

Does anyone else think it'd be great if Evo magazine had an online database of which article is in which back issue? It sounds like a great mind-numbing job for a work experience student to do biggrin

robmug

1,044 posts

147 months

[news] 
Friday 24th September 2010 quote quote all
I'm not sure Evo have written a Mk1 vs Mk2 feature.

The feature I think people are referring to is their 'Top 100' feature which put the 996 GT3 in 3rd place.

Not sure whether they specified Mk1 or Mk2...was a picture of a Mk1 IIRC. It would have been a bit pointless to run a Mk2 in the same test.

In my view (as a past Mk2 owner), the Mk2 is a better car.

But the Mk1 clearly has a certain appeal.

Comparing Mk1 and Mk2 today would be a bit pointless, as many are not running to factory setup; both cars can be made to handle the same - they are after all fundamentally the same car.

When the Mk2 was launched however, the consenus at the time was that the Mk2 was an improvement.

Harris_I

2,145 posts

143 months

[news] 
Friday 24th September 2010 quote quote all
It was a car of the decade (1994-2004) feature in issue 66 as has been pointed out. Nice to see lots of sad people like me on here. Actually I think the top 100 feature was much more recent.

It wasn't a direct comparison of mk1 vs mk2. Instead they placed the mk2 in 4th place, and the mk1 in 3rd for being a little more rewarding (though take this with a pinch of salt - it's all down to setup).

Zonda and Ferrari 550 came in 2nd and 1st - the Ferrari is a poor choice IMHO. It's good but not in a million years as rewarding as a GT3.


rlw

2,380 posts

121 months

[news] 
Saturday 25th September 2010 quote quote all
RobM77 said:
rlw said:
RobM77 said:
Does anyone know which issue of Evo the mk1 vs mk2 comparison was in? I've got a night in tonight and fancy a good read smile Also, the mk1 on the Targa Florio course was a superb article by R. Meaden. Sorry to be a pain, but can anyone remember which issues they were in? ta smile
tell you later as its in the pile next to the bed and I'm at work right now - also nice to see someone else as sad as me........................
hehe I've got every Evo since issue one. Knowing which magazine to pick up is somewhat difficult though. It can take a very long time to find an article!

If the article you mean is not the one in issue 66 then it'd be great to know which issue to look for.

Does anyone else think it'd be great if Evo magazine had an online database of which article is in which back issue? It sounds like a great mind-numbing job for a work experience student to do biggrin
Indeed it is issue 66

Henry-F

4,606 posts

129 months

[news] 
Saturday 25th September 2010 quote quote all
I think a lot of the comparisons between Mk1 and Mk2 are largely immaterial now the cars are a few years old. There will be more differences between individual cars than between the Mk1 and 2 per se.

Handling differences dictated by slight differences in geometry between cars, Mk 1 cars fitted with 6 pot callipers and just the fact that some cars are fresher than others.

There may be a bit of a snob or collectors value to the Mk 1 at some stage now or in the future but really, buy which ever is the better individual car, and there are very big differences in what's out there.

As with so many of these older cars articles written 10 years ago may not have that much relevance, particularly if any differences being debated were, in truth, quite minimal even back then and often written at the bequest of manufacturers trying to justify model changes.

Henry smile

Dan7357

2,017 posts

92 months

[news] 
Saturday 25th September 2010 quote quote all
Henry-F said:
I think a lot of the comparisons between Mk1 and Mk2 are largely immaterial now the cars are a few years old. There will be more differences between individual cars than between the Mk1 and 2 per se.

Handling differences dictated by slight differences in geometry between cars, Mk 1 cars fitted with 6 pot callipers and just the fact that some cars are fresher than others.

There may be a bit of a snob or collectors value to the Mk 1 at some stage now or in the future but really, buy which ever is the better individual car, and there are very big differences in what's out there.

As with so many of these older cars articles written 10 years ago may not have that much relevance, particularly if any differences being debated were, in truth, quite minimal even back then and often written at the bequest of manufacturers trying to justify model changes.

Henry smile
Ok...

if you were buying one for yourself would it be MK1 or MK2 ? Same spec. both done the same miles avg. for year.

Henry-F

4,606 posts

129 months

[news] 
Saturday 25th September 2010 quote quote all
I'd buy the better individual car. No 2 are ever the same. "Better" will mean different things to different people. Some will be price led, others absolute condition regardless of price and so on.

If I was going to have it for a long time and fancied a roll of the dice then possibly a Mk1 might go up in value a bit more just because of the weissach connection but how long they take to rise in value is anyone's guess. I think they are all going to go up at some stage though because at the moment they are something of a bargain compared to the earlier specialist cars.

I'm probably not the person to ask because I'm a mean bugger and would buy a cheap one so as not to feel too precious about using it.

Henry smile


Henry-F

4,606 posts

129 months

[news] 
Saturday 25th September 2010 quote quote all
I'd buy the better individual car. No 2 are ever the same. "Better" will mean different things to different people. Some will be price led, others absolute condition regardless of price and so on.

If I was going to have it for a long time and fancied a roll of the dice then possibly a Mk1 might go up in value a bit more just because of the weissach connection but how long they take to rise in value is anyone's guess. I think they are all going to go up at some stage though because at the moment they are something of a bargain compared to the earlier specialist cars.

I'm probably not the person to ask because I'm a mean bugger and would buy a cheap one so as not to feel too precious about using it.

Henry smile


Diesel130

1,549 posts

96 months

[news] 
Saturday 25th September 2010 quote quote all
Henry-F said:
...I'm probably not the person to ask because I'm a mean bugger and would buy a cheap one so as not to feel too precious about using it.
Ah! - you mean like buy a cheap one that might happen to be for sale for less than £35K ;-)

mrdemon

5,565 posts

149 months

[news] 
Saturday 25th September 2010 quote quote all
the engine in the mk2 is better in every way.

not just a power increase but in losing weigh on internal parts.
Porsche looked at every part of the mk2 engine and improved it in loads of areas.

the GT3 mk1 is not that fast a car in todays standards, the new C2 GTS is faster.

If i were buying a GT3 I would buy the one with the better engine spec and that's the mk2 by miles.

Suspension and geo's can be changed the engine you are stuck with.

Edited by mrdemon on Saturday 25th September 13:17

RobM77

24,998 posts

118 months

[news] 
Saturday 25th September 2010 quote quote all
I'm not in the market for a GT3 now, but just for the record, I presume it's possible to disable the airbag and fit a replacement steering wheel? (they obviously do for the racing cars, and the GT3 is intended as such I believe). I would need the steering wheel in a 996 brought about 3-4 inches closer to me to drive the car properly; in a standard 996 I've got my legs bent double and my arms out-stretched.

Steve Rance

2,738 posts

115 months

[news] 
Saturday 25th September 2010 quote quote all
christer said:
Steve Rance said:
There has been a lot of poorly written comparisons between these cars over the years.
According to who?
According some very experienced 911 Drivers who I respect greatly and have extensively driven both cars. I have a bit of experience in them as well! I didn't mean to sound pompous but I've driven literally 1000's of laps in GT3's in different states of chassis tune and most articles that i have read are a fair way off in my opinion.

GJB

386 posts

142 months

[news] 
Saturday 25th September 2010 quote quote all
SonnyM said:
Steve Rance said:
There has been a lot of poorly written comparisons between these cars over the years. The Mk2 car had a more idiot proof geo put on it hence the understeer. in General, give an inexperienced driver lots of front end grip in a 911 - especially a GT3 and oversteer will ultimately follow it which is not a good plan. Also, the RS was not a track only car fatally compromised on the road, just a car that gives more feedback than the other models. To a driver who is unable to understand or decipher it, this could appear intimidating. The common - too extreme for the road - response from journalists says more about thier own ability or lack of it to translate what is happening than it does about the car. it is the far more extensitve and delicate feedback of the passively sprung cars that seperate them as ultimately more satisfying and rewarding cars to drive than latter active vehicles.

Put a propper geo on any 996 GT3 and it will be a delight to drive. There is no 'bad' car in the bunch, they are all very good cars. My advice is the buy the best car thats on the market your budget allows. Whether it be a MK1 or MK2, they are very good cars indeed.

Edited by Steve Rance on Saturday 4th September 21:04


Edited by Steve Rance on Saturday 4th September 21:10
Thanks. What defines a proper Geo? Should all GT3 Geos be setup the same? Would an OPC not setup the Geo on a GT3 perfectly or would you have to go to a race specialist?

Just curious... Thanks.
A proper geo is one that suits YOU. When you start exploring the limits of the car and driver no two drivers are exactly the same. So the answer to your question is that there's no standard answer. A good indy that has lots of experience with GT3 and ideally race car set-up will know what questions to ask you and also how to interprete the answers.

Both Steve Rance and I ran mk 1 GT3's and although we would lap Brands in similar times we have a totally different driving style. So my car and it's set up might not suit him and vice-versa.

But you may think this is only relevant to race cars or track day demons (ha, ha)...NO.

A good set-up will also influence the cars handling and comfort level on the road. To most of us a totally track orientated set-up would be utterly undriveable on the public road. See the number of cars that arrive on trailers to track days. Also watch tyre wear because an extreme set-up for the track may well knock out the edges of the tyres far quicker...ask.

Speak to your nearest indy and ask them what they can offer.

Fearnsport, Parr Motorsport, JZ Machtec, Tech 9 and a number of others exist across the UK. Talk to them and see what they can offer and at what cost.
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