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Edinburger

Original Poster:

5,050 posts

56 months

[news] 
Monday 6th September 2010 quote quote all
I was on the A92 between Dunfermline and Kirkcaldy (which is dual carriageway, 70 limit) on Saturday morning around 9.45 a.m.

I'm aware of the usual laser spots on that road from my Pogo Alert, but I noticed a mobile speed camera van under a bridge in a spot my Pogo hadn’t detected/expected. I was driving 'enthusiastically' but slowed down to 70'ish – hopefully in the nick of time.

Does anyone know whether speed camera vans allowed to sit in spots which aren't be registered or publicly known? Also, does anyone know exactly from how far they can take a reading? And yet again - for me anyway – my Pogo Alert didn’t detect the mobile camera.

I'll put my hands up if I was speeding, but there must also be an ethical question about why the van was there on a Saturday morning. I’ve never ever seen an accident on that road in busy traffic, never mind a quiet Saturday morning.

Whether I'm done or not, I feel like writing to the Chief Constable questioning this on ethical, funding and procedural principles.

Any thoughts, please?

saaby93

13,121 posts

66 months

[news] 
Monday 6th September 2010 quote quote all
What's the point of the 70mph limit if it's to be voluntary? banghead

Puff the magic..

584 posts

68 months

[news] 
Monday 6th September 2010 quote quote all
Yes, write to the Chief and tell him that it is only "fair" to enforce the speed limit when he warns everybody to slow down first.
Post the reply up when you get it.

Edinburger

Original Poster:

5,050 posts

56 months

[news] 
Monday 6th September 2010 quote quote all
saaby93 said:
What's the point of the 70mph limit if it's to be voluntary? banghead
That's not my point.

I understand and respect speed limits. I don't expect to find mobile speed cameras in unregistered sites when a perfectly safe road is so quiet though. We all know the arguments for and against speed cameras, this particular incident seems inappropriate.


karona

1,217 posts

74 months

[news] 
Monday 6th September 2010 quote quote all
Edinburger said:
I was on the A92 between Dunfermline and Kirkcaldy (which is dual carriageway, 70 limit) on Saturday morning around 9.45 a.m.
does anyone know exactly from how far they can take a reading? And yet again - for me anyway – my Pogo Alert didn’t detect the mobile camera.
From personal experience as soon as you see them your speed is clocked, jumping on the brakes is too late, you're fooked already. Were there any other cars between you and the camera while you were slowing? I got a ticket thrown out because there was another car in the video at the moment they clocked my speed, but they took a second photo when I got much closer, and superimposed the speed readings on it. This was only revealed when I asked to see the video.
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saaby93

13,121 posts

66 months

[news] 
Monday 6th September 2010 quote quote all
Edinburger said:
We all know the arguments for and against speed cameras, this particular incident seems inappropriate.
tumbleweed page 11
http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roadsafety/speedmanageme...

Edinburger

Original Poster:

5,050 posts

56 months

[news] 
Monday 6th September 2010 quote quote all
saaby93 said:
Edinburger said:
We all know the arguments for and against speed cameras, this particular incident seems inappropriate.
tumbleweed page 11
http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roadsafety/speedmanageme...
I obviously don't have access to information to confirm or challenge those factors are met.

However, I've never been aware of any accident in that area and traffic seems to travel at typical speeds there.

So your point is?



Edinburger

Original Poster:

5,050 posts

56 months

[news] 
Monday 6th September 2010 quote quote all
karona said:
Edinburger said:
I was on the A92 between Dunfermline and Kirkcaldy (which is dual carriageway, 70 limit) on Saturday morning around 9.45 a.m.
does anyone know exactly from how far they can take a reading? And yet again - for me anyway – my Pogo Alert didn’t detect the mobile camera.
From personal experience as soon as you see them your speed is clocked, jumping on the brakes is too late, you're fooked already. Were there any other cars between you and the camera while you were slowing? I got a ticket thrown out because there was another car in the video at the moment they clocked my speed, but they took a second photo when I got much closer, and superimposed the speed readings on it. This was only revealed when I asked to see the video.
Thanks, but surely they need to meausre your speed over a certain distance to accurately establish your correct speed?

I don't think there were any other cars as I was overtaking and it was when I pulled in to the inside lane that I noticed the van.

As I said, I'll take it if I was speeding but it seems an unjustified place and time to have a trap set-up. Usual arguments about money raising, etc., apply!

SS2.

8,142 posts

126 months

[news] 
Monday 6th September 2010 quote quote all
Edinburger said:
I obviously don't have access to information to confirm or challenge those factors are met.
Wouldn't matter if you did - those selection criteria are no longer applicable, and they were never 'law', anyway.

SS2.

8,142 posts

126 months

[news] 
Monday 6th September 2010 quote quote all
Edinburger said:
Thanks, but surely they need to meausre your speed over a certain distance to accurately establish your correct speed?
No - for laser devices, a near instantaneous check is good enough. No need for speed to be measured / confirmed over a distance.

Edinburger said:
As I said, I'll take it if I was speeding but it seems an unjustified place and time to have a trap set-up.
They can set-up where they want and when they want.

rewc

1,983 posts

121 months

[news] 
Monday 6th September 2010 quote quote all
[quote=Edinburger

Thanks, but surely they need to meausre your speed over a certain distance to accurately establish your correct speed?

[/quote]

With a laser device it is instant and you are not 'tracked' for any distance. A ping lasting fractions of a second is all they need. You have no need to worry - the equipment is home office approved and the operator will be working to strict operational guidlines in it's use. The operator will be alert and have established a belief that you were exceeding the limit and using the laser to confirm his prior opinion.

14-7

5,941 posts

79 months

[news] 
Monday 6th September 2010 quote quote all
You seem more peeved that you have been caught.

It sounds like you slow for where you know the camera vans sit and because they were sat somewhere you weren't expecting call it unethical.


Edinburger

Original Poster:

5,050 posts

56 months

[news] 
Monday 6th September 2010 quote quote all
Thanks, SS2 and rewc.

From what distance can they take a reading?

I also thought they have to observe you and record you having taking the informed decision that you're likely to have been speeding?

covboy

1,769 posts

62 months

[news] 
Monday 6th September 2010 quote quote all

[/quote]

With a laser device it is instant and you are not 'tracked' for any distance. A ping lasting fractions of a second is all they need. You have no need to worry - the equipment is home office approved and the operator will be working to strict operational guidlines in it's use. The operator will be alert and have established a belief that you were exceeding the limit and using the laser to confirm his prior opinion.

[/quote]


Yeah

saaby93

13,121 posts

66 months

[news] 
Monday 6th September 2010 quote quote all
SS2. said:
Edinburger said:
I obviously don't have access to information to confirm or challenge those factors are met.
Wouldn't matter if you did - those selection criteria are no longer applicable
what's replaced them? These?
dft2007 said:
New camera sites will be selected using an assessment that includes the level of fatal, serious and slight collisions. The combined level of collisions will be expressed as a numerical scale (see below) and assessed relative to the road classification for the site – whether it is either a ‘built-up’ or ‘non-built-up’ area and according to the type of site, i.e. route
ixed, mobile or red-light.
Fatal or serious injury collision = 5 (i.e. 2 serious collisions = 10)
Slight injury collision = 1 (i.e. 5 slight collisions = 5)
Built-up area’ is defined as a road with a speed limit of 40 mph or less.
Non-built-up area’ is defined as a road with a speed limit of 50 mph or more.
Edited by saaby93 on Monday 6th September 15:25

Edinburger

Original Poster:

5,050 posts

56 months

[news] 
Monday 6th September 2010 quote quote all
14-7 said:
You seem more peeved that you have been caught.

It sounds like you slow for where you know the camera vans sit and because they were sat somewhere you weren't expecting call it unethical.
Of course I'm peeved but my main gripe is that Fife Police are never anywhere to be seen on areas known for speeding where there s real danger to kids and pedestrians, but they sit on a dual carriageway on Saturday morning, which is almost dead?

Edinburger

Original Poster:

5,050 posts

56 months

[news] 
Monday 6th September 2010 quote quote all
saaby93 said:
What's the point of the 70mph limit if it's to be voluntary? banghead
So saaby93, you come across on this thread as rather self-righteous. Can we assume you never exceed the speed limit? Are you in favour of scarce police resources being deployed in this way?

And police spend even more money on developing community relations!

SS2.

8,142 posts

126 months

[news] 
Monday 6th September 2010 quote quote all
Edinburger said:
From what distance can they take a reading?
The commonest devices are approved for use at distances of upto 1km.

Edinburger said:
I also thought they have to observe you and record you having taking the informed decision that you're likely to have been speeding?
They are supposed to, yes.

SS2.

8,142 posts

126 months

[news] 
Monday 6th September 2010 quote quote all
saaby93 said:
SS2. said:
Edinburger said:
I obviously don't have access to information to confirm or challenge those factors are met.
Wouldn't matter if you did - those selection criteria are no longer applicable
what's replaced them?
Does it matter ?

Larry Dickman

3,762 posts

106 months

[news] 
Monday 6th September 2010 quote quote all
Edinburger said:
14-7 said:
You seem more peeved that you have been caught.

It sounds like you slow for where you know the camera vans sit and because they were sat somewhere you weren't expecting call it unethical.
Of course I'm peeved but my main gripe is that Fife Police are never anywhere to be seen on areas known for speeding where there s real danger to kids and pedestrians, but they sit on a dual carriageway on Saturday morning, which is almost dead?
They do seem to like a camera van up there as I saw three between Aberdeen & Dundee on Saturday afternoon along with the numerous fixed cameras also on the A90. The last camera van I saw was set up about 100 yards in front of a fixed camera location. Crafty, I thought.
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