Shill bidding car dealer on autotrader - worth reporting?

Shill bidding car dealer on autotrader - worth reporting?

Author
Discussion

Piersman2

Original Poster:

6,599 posts

200 months

Friday 10th September 2010
quotequote all
I've just spotted the most obvious shill bidding operation on E-bay I ever seen

Their policy states that ALL cars sold with no reserve and that 'winners' have 24 hours to contact or they reserve the right to re-advertise. Which sounds very fair to me.

But I noticed tonight that they have re-listed about 15 cars this evening, with some of them only finishing their previous listing tonight, which means no 24hrs grace , which seemed strange.

So I went and had a look at some of the previous expired listings and a large percentage of them finish with 0 rated winners , and many of them have had the price inflated by 0 bidders.

For example, 1 206 had a zero bidder who had forced someone up from £850 to £999, to then be pipped by what looks like a genuine bidder at £1029. Sems to me that 'winner' has possibly paid up to £279 more than they may have had to.

All this is a bit of a shame as I quite fancied on of their cars that finishes on Sunday, but don't want to deal with shisters.

Is it worth reporting? Will E-bay take any notice?

Will think on it over night and see what the PH massive suggests in the morning! smile

anonymous-user

55 months

Friday 10th September 2010
quotequote all
Ebay are coming down hard on this, a bloke went to prison for it a couple of months ago. Report it 100%.

twazzock

1,930 posts

170 months

Friday 10th September 2010
quotequote all
MSTRBKR said:
Ebay are coming down hard on this, a bloke went to prison for it a couple of months ago. Report it 100%.
+1

80s Matchbox

3,891 posts

177 months

Friday 10th September 2010
quotequote all
This chap wont be doing it again.

smile

dipstic

56 posts

201 months

Friday 10th September 2010
quotequote all
I put a bid on ebay for some wheels/tyres and put my max bid on (although at the time the highest bid was a lot lower than my max) so I became the highest current bidder , then another bidder bid up to my max so he became the highest bidder only to retract his bid which then left me with the highest bid but at my maximum bid.Surely my bid should have gone back to its original before the retracted bidder started bumping it up.
Luckily I still only paid the amount I was prepared to,but I should have got them £75 cheaper.
Now I never put my max bid on at the start.

Ray Luxury-Yacht

8,910 posts

217 months

Friday 10th September 2010
quotequote all
Get it reported, clowns like this are ruining the ethos of Ebay for evaryone else!


forsure

2,121 posts

269 months

Friday 10th September 2010
quotequote all
There's a car seller on ebay that blatantly does this (possibly the same one referred to by the OP).

I can only assume that ebay turns a blind eye (it makes more profit for them, after all), because it's been going on for years.

I'd be amazed if they haven't been reported before, and I've noticed that they've changed their identity at least twice since I've been watching.

sloopeh

49 posts

170 months

Friday 10th September 2010
quotequote all
one fun thing to do on ebay is search for blank service books and dealer stamps that have been won then follow the breadcrumbs and see if you can find a car for sale with a full service history.

Piersman2

Original Poster:

6,599 posts

200 months

Friday 10th September 2010
quotequote all
Reported to Ebay, along with a few examples of their recent finished auctions.

Not hard to spot, virtually every completed auction has a zero bidder involved at some point.

I'm guessing their business model is to buy from auction and then use ebay and shill bidding to ensure that each car at least makes what they paid for it. Their volume of vehicles seems very high, working on the pile them high sell 'em cheap principle it seems.

They make great play on their ebay shop of the fact that they don't have time to inspect cars or may miss things, but then they do at least 'say' that they give the buyer as much time as they want when they turn up to inspect the vehicle and reject it if your not happy... for any reason.

A good business model effectively allowing buyers to access auction standard cars... but then as buyers you want to be able to access auction style prices.

I don't think these guys are being particularly 'greedy' or deceitful, but they're really not putting themslves at much financial risk either by ensuring that each car never sells for less than they bought it. They just keep rotating them on ebay until someone pays the money they bid it up to.

If that's what they want though, they should be setting reserves.. not sure why they're not?

bmw2002

8,596 posts

225 months

Friday 10th September 2010
quotequote all
forsure said:
There's a car seller on ebay that blatantly does this (possibly the same one referred to by the OP).

I can only assume that ebay turns a blind eye (it makes more profit for them, after all), because it's been going on for years.

I'd be amazed if they haven't been reported before, and I've noticed that they've changed their identity at least twice since I've been watching.
Are they based in Reading, Berkshire?

CampDavid

9,145 posts

199 months

Friday 10th September 2010
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Did this dealer recently have a Daimler Super V8 up for sale?

If so I think I've spotted him too biggrin

teen_cerbera

7,921 posts

226 months

Friday 10th September 2010
quotequote all
Piersman2 said:
Reported to Ebay, along with a few examples of their recent finished auctions.

Not hard to spot, virtually every completed auction has a zero bidder involved at some point.

I'm guessing their business model is to buy from auction and then use ebay and shill bidding to ensure that each car at least makes what they paid for it. Their volume of vehicles seems very high, working on the pile them high sell 'em cheap principle it seems.

They make great play on their ebay shop of the fact that they don't have time to inspect cars or may miss things, but then they do at least 'say' that they give the buyer as much time as they want when they turn up to inspect the vehicle and reject it if your not happy... for any reason.

A good business model effectively allowing buyers to access auction standard cars... but then as buyers you want to be able to access auction style prices.

I don't think these guys are being particularly 'greedy' or deceitful, but they're really not putting themslves at much financial risk either by ensuring that each car never sells for less than they bought it. They just keep rotating them on ebay until someone pays the money they bid it up to.

If that's what they want though, they should be setting reserves.. not sure why they're not?
Im sure you pay for reserves? I think starting them at what they paid for them, in a 5 day auction would work better...

cmackay81

9,251 posts

167 months

Friday 10th September 2010
quotequote all
teen_cerbera said:
Piersman2 said:
Reported to Ebay, along with a few examples of their recent finished auctions.

Not hard to spot, virtually every completed auction has a zero bidder involved at some point.

I'm guessing their business model is to buy from auction and then use ebay and shill bidding to ensure that each car at least makes what they paid for it. Their volume of vehicles seems very high, working on the pile them high sell 'em cheap principle it seems.

They make great play on their ebay shop of the fact that they don't have time to inspect cars or may miss things, but then they do at least 'say' that they give the buyer as much time as they want when they turn up to inspect the vehicle and reject it if your not happy... for any reason.

A good business model effectively allowing buyers to access auction standard cars... but then as buyers you want to be able to access auction style prices.

I don't think these guys are being particularly 'greedy' or deceitful, but they're really not putting themslves at much financial risk either by ensuring that each car never sells for less than they bought it. They just keep rotating them on ebay until someone pays the money they bid it up to.

If that's what they want though, they should be setting reserves.. not sure why they're not?
Im sure you pay for reserves? I think starting them at what they paid for them, in a 5 day auction would work better...
mostly its not shill bidding that goes on on ebay.
its alot lot more expensive to list an item with either a reserve or minimum starting price than just by putting it on at .99p. Because of this, people use another account to create the reserve price. The idea of this is that the second account creates the reserve price. The problem on normal auctions is when the seller ends up buying their own product with this bud, and so has to pay the fees, However Ebay Motors works differently, so there is no fee-payment for this.(iirc)

Wheelrepairit

2,910 posts

205 months

Friday 10th September 2010
quotequote all
I spotted this going on with someone, he even left feedback for the 3 items he won as he outbid others, then put them straight back on to ebay.

Reported it, ebay told me not enough to go on, muppets,

They are not worried, end of day they get more final value fee.

Piersman2

Original Poster:

6,599 posts

200 months

Friday 10th September 2010
quotequote all
bmw2002 said:
forsure said:
There's a car seller on ebay that blatantly does this (possibly the same one referred to by the OP).

I can only assume that ebay turns a blind eye (it makes more profit for them, after all), because it's been going on for years.

I'd be amazed if they haven't been reported before, and I've noticed that they've changed their identity at least twice since I've been watching.
Are they based in Reading, Berkshire?
I couldn't possibly say... but I live in Reading and wouldn't normally be looking to travel a great distance to buy. smile

bmw2002

8,596 posts

225 months

Friday 10th September 2010
quotequote all
Piersman2 said:
bmw2002 said:
forsure said:
There's a car seller on ebay that blatantly does this (possibly the same one referred to by the OP).

I can only assume that ebay turns a blind eye (it makes more profit for them, after all), because it's been going on for years.

I'd be amazed if they haven't been reported before, and I've noticed that they've changed their identity at least twice since I've been watching.
Are they based in Reading, Berkshire?
I couldn't possibly say... but I live in Reading and wouldn't normally be looking to travel a great distance to buy. smile
If they sell their 'cars with no reserve' then I know of them. wink

Piersman2

Original Poster:

6,599 posts

200 months

Friday 10th September 2010
quotequote all
Wheelrepairit said:
I spotted this going on with someone, he even left feedback for the 3 items he won as he outbid others, then put them straight back on to ebay.

Reported it, ebay told me not enough to go on, muppets,

They are not worried, end of day they get more final value fee.
Well I've reported these guys and said that I'd be interested to see what e-bay think before I report it to trading standards... it's just so blatant. Car finsihes acution at 9pm. By 9.15pm it's re-listed. Been won by a 0 rated bidder, but strangely they haven't followed their own blurb and given the buyer the 24hrs to repond to them before re-listing.

So they must know the bidder is not going to be turning up... and I guess that would be becuase they are the bidder!

Piersman2

Original Poster:

6,599 posts

200 months

Friday 10th September 2010
quotequote all
bmw2002 said:
Piersman2 said:
bmw2002 said:
forsure said:
There's a car seller on ebay that blatantly does this (possibly the same one referred to by the OP).

I can only assume that ebay turns a blind eye (it makes more profit for them, after all), because it's been going on for years.

I'd be amazed if they haven't been reported before, and I've noticed that they've changed their identity at least twice since I've been watching.
Are they based in Reading, Berkshire?
I couldn't possibly say... but I live in Reading and wouldn't normally be looking to travel a great distance to buy. smile
If they sell their 'cars with no reserve' then I know of them. wink
I did use a very similar phrase in the first paragraph of my OP, completely coincidentally! smile

Piersman2

Original Poster:

6,599 posts

200 months

Friday 10th September 2010
quotequote all
Would it be considered blackmail for me to contact them and say I want the car I'm looking at at their auction cost price or I'm gonna report them to trading standards? whistle

bmw2002

8,596 posts

225 months

Friday 10th September 2010
quotequote all
Piersman2 said:
Would it be considered blackmail for me to contact them and say I want the car I'm looking at at their auction cost price or I'm gonna report them to trading standards? whistle
Knowing the 2 brothers I would guess they couldn't care less!