ETA 2824-2 and Sellita SW200 automatic movements
Discussion
I have an Oris Diver Date and I know that it has a Sellita SW200 movement in it. This blog explains the similarity between the Swatch and Sellita movements and states that Swatch will only supply its 2824 movements to manufacturers in the Swatch group from this year(I've read this somewhere else before). Sellita movements may well feature more from now on I suspect...
http://ablogtoread.com/general/making-sense-of-the...
And a little about the ETA movements:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ETA_SA
http://ablogtoread.com/general/making-sense-of-the...
And a little about the ETA movements:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ETA_SA
douglasr said:
Swatch will only supply its 2824 movements to manufacturers in the Swatch group from this year(
Never heard that before. That should bugger things up for a few of the smaller companies.Not particulary bothered by teh movements themselves I just want reliability but a lot of people seem to like the 2824.
Sellita's movements are meant to compete directly with ETA for OEM fitment hence they are the same size / format as the ETA movements they compete with... in fact they are virtually the same and many parts are interchangeable.
Does this ring a bell? Sellita introduced the SW200 in 1995 and is planning to introduce 7750 replacements and 2892 replacements AFAICT.
And Sellita's web site describes the company as Swiss ***assemblers*** of movements.
Now we all know about Claro-Semag, who buy in cheap Sea-Gull ST16 movements, put on a polished rotor (being Swiss, this probably costs more than the entire Chinese movement) and then does some QA in Switzerland. The cost of labour in Switzerland means that final QA is more value than the entire movement cost from Sea-Gull. Hence Claro-Semag sell their 'finished' Sea-Gull ST16s as 'Swiss Made' movements, completely legally since the amount of finished value originating in Switzerland is more than 50% (or whatever the Swiss legal limit is). This is not hard given the insanely low price of bulk Sea-Gull ST16 movements...
So what about Sellita? They have an ETA 2824-2 clone. They are planning to introduce a 7750 replacement, and a 2892 replacement.
But we know that Sea-Gull and Liaoning Watch Factory (between them) in China make these *exact* specification items - drop-in replacements for the 2824-2, the 7750 and the 2892-2.
The only reason anyone would choose the Sellita drop-in ETA replacement over the Sea-Gull drop-in ETA replacement would be for the 'Swiss Made' badge. There is NO other reason, since Sea-Gull are respected for making good movements.
As a businessman there's absolutely no business case for developing ETA clones in Switzerland from scratch when Sea-Gull and Liaoning have already done the work. If the only reason your customers are choosing a Swiss branded product instead of the Chinese product is because of perceived quality and the cachet of being 'Swiss', then the obvious business model is to buy in the Sea-Gull and Liaoning ETA clones, then bring them up to Swiss quality standards with proper QC.
Maybe one could be honest about the origin of the movements, or one could do a Claro-Semag and deny the source of the movements entirely until someone dismantles the product and makes you look like not just a fool, but a dishonest liar too.
So... are Sellita movements actually designed by Sellita? Or are they just Sea-Gull ETA clones, as used widely by the replica industry, 'assembled' in Switzerland? Specifically, the SW200 - is it actually the Sea-Gull ST21? The Swiss 'Valanvron' company does *exactly* this - imports the Sea-Gull ST21 and re-sells them as 'Swiss Made' movements.
Now there's nothing wrong with Sea-Gull. Their quality levels are good and the ETA clones are pretty much as good as the genuine ETA movements, assuming they're assembled and lubricated properly. But I take issue with the Swiss firms calling the things 'Swiss Made'. Yes, they are 'made' in Switzerland if you consider kit assembly, QC, or simple lubrication as enough to be 'Swiss Made'. But they're not, are they? The R&D, material production, and component production is all Chinese. The design is a rip-off of ETA's, and given that Claro-Semag are getting away with it means the Swiss government doesn't disapprove.
However ETA parts are probably 'made' in China... the original design and R&D was done in Switzerland though.
I wouldn't have a problem with the words 'Made in China' on the bottom of my watch assuming that the Chinese watch factory was one of the well-respected ones. The best Chinese manufactures are deserving of the name 'manufacture' now - their tourbillons are the obvious case in point, the Chinese are starting to invent their own things now and not just counterfeiting stuff.
However I'd not be impressed with a Swiss OEM that previously used ETA movements switching over to Chinese movements, and then using legal sleight of hand to still write 'Swiss Made' on the dial. It's not any more.
Anyone know whether Sellita are duplicating Sea-Gull's work (in which case they'll eventually go bust, as the Claro-Semag model is so much more profitable) by building their *own* ETA-clone design, or are they doing the same thing as Claro-Semag and rebranding Chinese movements?
Does this ring a bell? Sellita introduced the SW200 in 1995 and is planning to introduce 7750 replacements and 2892 replacements AFAICT.
And Sellita's web site describes the company as Swiss ***assemblers*** of movements.
Now we all know about Claro-Semag, who buy in cheap Sea-Gull ST16 movements, put on a polished rotor (being Swiss, this probably costs more than the entire Chinese movement) and then does some QA in Switzerland. The cost of labour in Switzerland means that final QA is more value than the entire movement cost from Sea-Gull. Hence Claro-Semag sell their 'finished' Sea-Gull ST16s as 'Swiss Made' movements, completely legally since the amount of finished value originating in Switzerland is more than 50% (or whatever the Swiss legal limit is). This is not hard given the insanely low price of bulk Sea-Gull ST16 movements...
So what about Sellita? They have an ETA 2824-2 clone. They are planning to introduce a 7750 replacement, and a 2892 replacement.
But we know that Sea-Gull and Liaoning Watch Factory (between them) in China make these *exact* specification items - drop-in replacements for the 2824-2, the 7750 and the 2892-2.
The only reason anyone would choose the Sellita drop-in ETA replacement over the Sea-Gull drop-in ETA replacement would be for the 'Swiss Made' badge. There is NO other reason, since Sea-Gull are respected for making good movements.
As a businessman there's absolutely no business case for developing ETA clones in Switzerland from scratch when Sea-Gull and Liaoning have already done the work. If the only reason your customers are choosing a Swiss branded product instead of the Chinese product is because of perceived quality and the cachet of being 'Swiss', then the obvious business model is to buy in the Sea-Gull and Liaoning ETA clones, then bring them up to Swiss quality standards with proper QC.
Maybe one could be honest about the origin of the movements, or one could do a Claro-Semag and deny the source of the movements entirely until someone dismantles the product and makes you look like not just a fool, but a dishonest liar too.
So... are Sellita movements actually designed by Sellita? Or are they just Sea-Gull ETA clones, as used widely by the replica industry, 'assembled' in Switzerland? Specifically, the SW200 - is it actually the Sea-Gull ST21? The Swiss 'Valanvron' company does *exactly* this - imports the Sea-Gull ST21 and re-sells them as 'Swiss Made' movements.
Now there's nothing wrong with Sea-Gull. Their quality levels are good and the ETA clones are pretty much as good as the genuine ETA movements, assuming they're assembled and lubricated properly. But I take issue with the Swiss firms calling the things 'Swiss Made'. Yes, they are 'made' in Switzerland if you consider kit assembly, QC, or simple lubrication as enough to be 'Swiss Made'. But they're not, are they? The R&D, material production, and component production is all Chinese. The design is a rip-off of ETA's, and given that Claro-Semag are getting away with it means the Swiss government doesn't disapprove.
However ETA parts are probably 'made' in China... the original design and R&D was done in Switzerland though.
I wouldn't have a problem with the words 'Made in China' on the bottom of my watch assuming that the Chinese watch factory was one of the well-respected ones. The best Chinese manufactures are deserving of the name 'manufacture' now - their tourbillons are the obvious case in point, the Chinese are starting to invent their own things now and not just counterfeiting stuff.
However I'd not be impressed with a Swiss OEM that previously used ETA movements switching over to Chinese movements, and then using legal sleight of hand to still write 'Swiss Made' on the dial. It's not any more.
Anyone know whether Sellita are duplicating Sea-Gull's work (in which case they'll eventually go bust, as the Claro-Semag model is so much more profitable) by building their *own* ETA-clone design, or are they doing the same thing as Claro-Semag and rebranding Chinese movements?
This was 0one of teh replies in the link from douglasr's post
"ETA and Sellita are NOT identical NOR is the latter a clone of the former.
In fact they have NO interchangeable parts other than hand stack pegs.
Further the terms Swiss Made and Swiss Movement are NOT identical NOR are they even similar.
The terminology of ‘Swiss Movement’ tells anyone in the know, of the specific legal terms of trade, that the movement was assembled, cased, and inspected OUTSIDE of Switzerland."
"
"ETA and Sellita are NOT identical NOR is the latter a clone of the former.
In fact they have NO interchangeable parts other than hand stack pegs.
Further the terms Swiss Made and Swiss Movement are NOT identical NOR are they even similar.
The terminology of ‘Swiss Movement’ tells anyone in the know, of the specific legal terms of trade, that the movement was assembled, cased, and inspected OUTSIDE of Switzerland."
"
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