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Old Trout

Original Poster:

1,582 posts

59 months

[news] 
Monday 4th October 2010 quote quote all
I am sure this has been covered before however I am interested in more real wing on my GT3.

When I bought the car I was offered a genuine RS carbon wing with it for £1,500 and decided I didn't want it - oh, but now I do.

What other options are there? I am seeking genuine downforce and it must be light - ideally fitting with the existing boot lid.

Thanks biggrin

spenny_b

1,068 posts

127 months

[news] 
Monday 4th October 2010 quote quote all
Assuming Mk2 996 GT3, you can buy wedge packs to fit between the wing pillars and the wing itself, to give increased rake. IIRC they come in primer.

Having a look through the PET, there are a couple of part numbers associated with the top deck of wing, but not sure if they're the actual wedges (they're described as "plate", LH and RH)

LH 996 512 983 94
RH 996 512 984 94

HTH,
S

Old Trout

Original Poster:

1,582 posts

59 months

[news] 
Monday 4th October 2010 quote quote all
Thanks - I already have the wedge packs - three different rakes smile

Was looking at the bigger RS style wing as an alternative.

David Hype

2,199 posts

136 months

[news] 
Monday 4th October 2010 quote quote all
Old Trout said:
I am sure this has been covered before however I am interested in more real wing on my GT3.

When I bought the car I was offered a genuine RS carbon wing with it for £1,500 and decided I didn't want it - oh, but now I do.

What other options are there? I am seeking genuine downforce and it must be light - ideally fitting with the existing boot lid.

Thanks biggrin
Sadly, your option of the original RS carbon wing for £1,500 was really a steal! Those are commanding prices of over £2,500 and as much as £5,000 new!

Replicas are available from Gert at www.carnewal.com but they start around £2,250 after his tax then you need to add delivery... Ouch!

Even if you can find a nice used example, look out for delamination on the outer leading edges.


Old Trout

Original Poster:

1,582 posts

59 months

[news] 
Monday 4th October 2010 quote quote all
Thanks David - Google was leading me to this conclusion!!! Thanks for the tip on the delamination as well - if I go ahead I will check it out.
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Harris_I

2,145 posts

143 months

[news] 
Tuesday 5th October 2010 quote quote all
Old Trout said:
What other options are there? I am seeking genuine downforce and it must be light
If you are after "genuine downforce", anything more than an RS wing will require you to increase downforce at the front to compensate (via a Cup splitter for example, but this is typically also in conjunction with a Cup bumper, and crucially the Cup radiator brackets which change the angle of the rad).

You can try GT-Racing in the US for carbon fibre Cup style wings, though my recent experience with them has not been good and I think they may be having supplier problems. Or there's always the original Cup motorsport parts, but for track days an RS wing should be more than sufficient.


Old Trout

Original Poster:

1,582 posts

59 months

[news] 
Tuesday 5th October 2010 quote quote all
Thanks - good reminder re balance front and rear. I think the RS wing should be enough!

It is for sprints and possibly getting into hillclimb as well next year so a little more than the odd track day biggrin

I want to maximise my options for set up using fairly standard parts.

Edited by Old Trout on Tuesday 5th October 00:03

drmark

2,106 posts

70 months

[news] 
Tuesday 5th October 2010 quote quote all
Old Trout said:
I am sure this has been covered before however I am interested in more real wing on my GT3.

When I bought the car I was offered a genuine RS carbon wing with it for £1,500 and decided I didn't want it - oh, but now I do.

What other options are there? I am seeking genuine downforce and it must be light - ideally fitting with the existing boot lid.

Thanks biggrin
Does the RS wing actually give any useful extra downforce over a shimmed standard wing? I can see the weight saving being helpful ( at some price) but why would you want more downforce on the back without doing some major mods at the front? If anything I would like more downforce on the front in mine.
Last, and not least, if you want to shave time off one lap sprints and hill climbs an RS wing is likely to give a very poor return on investment. It only really becomes an issue at high speed (the RS wing gives a measly 30kg at 120 mph from memory), it will have to be a long fast circuit or flat hill if that is going to make a noticeable difference to your times.

I would spend the money on tuition.

Like the look of the RS wing though....

DiscoColin

2,751 posts

98 months

[news] 
Tuesday 5th October 2010 quote quote all
Old Trout said:
I am seeking genuine downforce and it must be light
I have seen a few with full fat cup rear wings on them, but it isn't pretty and as was said earlier you would have to do everything available to the front aero to balance the thing. This is the only one that really puts genuine downforce on it though (as in more than a marginal increase on the standard wing with shims).

Old Trout

Original Poster:

1,582 posts

59 months

[news] 
Tuesday 5th October 2010 quote quote all
drmark said:
Old Trout said:
I am sure this has been covered before however I am interested in more real wing on my GT3.

When I bought the car I was offered a genuine RS carbon wing with it for £1,500 and decided I didn't want it - oh, but now I do.

What other options are there? I am seeking genuine downforce and it must be light - ideally fitting with the existing boot lid.

Thanks biggrin
Does the RS wing actually give any useful extra downforce over a shimmed standard wing? I can see the weight saving being helpful ( at some price) but why would you want more downforce on the back without doing some major mods at the front? If anything I would like more downforce on the front in mine.
Last, and not least, if you want to shave time off one lap sprints and hill climbs an RS wing is likely to give a very poor return on investment. It only really becomes an issue at high speed (the RS wing gives a measly 30kg at 120 mph from memory), it will have to be a long fast circuit or flat hill if that is going to make a noticeable difference to your times.

I would spend the money on tuition.

Like the look of the RS wing though....
Sure - I have tuition and have already been pretty competitive in sprints. Just looking at options for set up of the car.

David Hype

2,199 posts

136 months

[news] 
Tuesday 5th October 2010 quote quote all
Cup front splitter and the RS carbon rear wing, with the downforce angle `wedges` mentioned earlier (if required) Will look the most balanced and will probably give you the most flexibility that you need for your future spirted driving ambitions.

All factory parts, so in my book you cant go far wrong with these...

Enjoy! driving

Mousem40

971 posts

101 months

[news] 
Tuesday 5th October 2010 quote quote all
David Hype said:
Cup front splitter and the RS carbon rear wing, with the downforce angle `wedges` mentioned earlier (if required) Will look the most balanced and will probably give you the most flexibility that you need for your future spirted driving ambitions.

All factory parts, so in my book you cant go far wrong with these...

Enjoy! driving
Cup front splitter: Do we know for fact that this provides significantly more downforce at the front? It's so very similar to the standard splitter, with more 'splayed' sides, or is it just assumed because it's from a cup car? I'm sure the canted front rad and bumper/bonnet vent (found on cup/Manthey cars) is much more useful in providing significant downforce (see JZM/Manthey figures)but much more expensive.

Old Trout

Original Poster:

1,582 posts

59 months

[news] 
Tuesday 5th October 2010 quote quote all
Interestingly when I first got the car it had a Cup Front bumper and splitter. Hard to see/feel the difference to be honest (other than the cooling holes). The PU seemed a little more flimsy.

My racing tutor reckons that losing the front splitter is up to 2s a lap at Donington!

David Hype

2,199 posts

136 months

[news] 
Tuesday 5th October 2010 quote quote all
Mousem40 said:
David Hype said:
Cup front splitter and the RS carbon rear wing, with the downforce angle `wedges` mentioned earlier (if required) Will look the most balanced and will probably give you the most flexibility that you need for your future spirted driving ambitions.

All factory parts, so in my book you cant go far wrong with these...

Enjoy! driving
Cup front splitter: Do we know for fact that this provides significantly more downforce at the front? It's so very similar to the standard splitter, with more 'splayed' sides, or is it just assumed because it's from a cup car? I'm sure the canted front rad and bumper/bonnet vent (found on cup/Manthey cars) is much more useful in providing significant downforce (see JZM/Manthey figures)but much more expensive.
As I stated in my post...`Cup front splitter and the RS carbon rear wing, with the downforce angle `wedges` mentioned earlier (if required) Will look the most balanced and will probably give you the most flexibility.`

Sorry, but I cannot add any proven technical stuff to this... Sorry rolleyes

Harris_I

2,145 posts

143 months

[news] 
Wednesday 6th October 2010 quote quote all
For many sprint events, the benefits of additional downforce will be fairly marginal on your times, given that the benefits only kick in over 100mph. You can influence the turn-in characteristics with an aggressive geo set up and probably make more impact on your times.

I have tested a standard road GT3 on a medium downforce circuit with standard front and rear, RS rear only, RS rear plus Cup splitter, full Cup rear and Cup bumper/rad/extended splitter. The front Cup splitter alone is probably not worth the effort for sprints (though visually I think it suits the car better, esp if you have the RS wing on the back). As has been said, you will not make much difference to downforce unless you go to town front and rear.

For the price of a rear RS wing, you can buy a very decent set of non-OEM adjustable coilovers which will be more useful to you.


Old Trout

Original Poster:

1,582 posts

59 months

[news] 
Wednesday 6th October 2010 quote quote all
Thanks for all your comments guys - very welcome. Just starting out with this in a 911 so a new learning curve biggrin

drmark

2,106 posts

70 months

[news] 
Wednesday 6th October 2010 quote quote all
Old Trout said:
Thanks for all your comments guys - very welcome. Just starting out with this in a 911 so a new learning curve biggrin
KWv3, a decent geo and Toyo R888s (great for sprints and hillclimbs) will transform your car and times if you don't have them all already. Followed by cup diff, cup rear toe links, PFC / Alcon front brakes, cup steering wheel and airbag delete. Then, and only then, would I look at aerodynamics.

Enjoy - and welcome to the dark side.

Edited by drmark on Wednesday 6th October 11:39

Old Trout

Original Poster:

1,582 posts

59 months

[news] 
Wednesday 6th October 2010 quote quote all
Thank you drmark biggrin

How do the Triple 888s compare to Cups?

I have done one event with the Cups on and the car was fabulous - grip, turn in and times were all great - got a few 500bhp Scoobs and Evos beaten biggrin

Old Trout

Original Poster:

1,582 posts

59 months

[news] 
Wednesday 6th October 2010 quote quote all
PS The Cups gave me a big step forward in results in the dry...

...in the wet I was miles off the pace with MPSs - although some of the faster cars were running full Dunlop Wets - I was still well off the pace to cars I was easily beating in the dry. I am guessing this is a talent issue!

drmark

2,106 posts

70 months

[news] 
Wednesday 6th October 2010 quote quote all
Old Trout said:
Thank you drmark biggrin

How do the Triple 888s compare to Cups?

I have done one event with the Cups on and the car was fabulous - grip, turn in and times were all great - got a few 500bhp Scoobs and Evos beaten biggrin
Cups better on track days and races, but Toyos much better in the wet, and on sprints and hill climbs as they work very quickly (and go off quickly too). Cheaper too - albeit not by as much as they used to be.
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