Wednesday 27th October 2010

Abarth Roadster - Like A Lotus, But Not?

Fiat to go it alone without help from Hethel or Austria

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Not the new Abarth roadster...

Abarth will unveil a bespoke mid-engined roadster in 2012 - and latest reports suggest it won't be based on the KTM X-Bow or Lotus Elise as previously thought.

Abarth's unique sports car, which will hit showrooms early in 2013, will be a nod to the 1960s, when Abarth produced a series of bespoke-bodied sports and racing cars.

According to an Autocar report, the new car will echo the layout of the Lotus Elise, employing a transverse, mid-mounted layout, a similar roof mechanism and even similar proportions. Power, as expected, will come from Fiat's new MultiAir engine range, while transmitting the power will be Fiat Auto's soon-to-be-launched dual-clutch gearbox.

It is also reported that the roadster will be pitched at around £25,000 - which is presumably one of the main reasons for Fiat's rejection of the ultra-expensive, carbon fibre-heavy KTM X-Bow being used as the basis for the car.

And it might just be our imaginations, but could it be possible that Fiat's decision not to use Lotus as its engineering partner for the Abarth roadster has something to do with the fact that Lotus CEO Dany Bahar is ex-Ferrari? Is this a good ol' Italian blood feud? Who knows...

[filski666]

The basis of this car changes more regularly than a popstar's haircut.

Is it just some Italian pipe dream that will never see the light of day?

I really hope it does happen, but hope it stays pure and focused, and doesn't water down to something more "mainstream"

Edited by filski666 on Wednesday 27th October 10:36

[MarJay]

So its a car that is going to have a ridiculously powerful, ridiculously economical engine, which is ridiculously light and ridiculously cheap?

I think there is a ridiculously low chance of it meeting all of those criteria.

[Riggers]

filski666 said:

The basis of this car changes more regularly than a popstar's haircut.

Is it just some Italian pipe dream that will never see the light of day?

I really hope it does happen, but hope it stays pure and focused, and doesn't water down to something more "mainstream"

Edited by filski666 on Wednesday 27th October 10:36

I think the key is going to be finding enough sales to justify the massive investment involved in creating a car like this from scratch - there is no room for vanity projects in the automotive industry at the moment.

[Ug_lee]

Won't all the development costs be tied up in the chassis as the rest will be sourced from the FIAT parts bin?

A lot of manufacturers have done this in the past and made decent returns from a relatively small development cost. Hopefully they can do it here as there isn't a massive choice of cheap mid-engine sports cars at the moment.

[itiejim]

Good luck to them. Their aspirations can't be any more ambitious than those of Lotus...

FIAT have come up with lots of ground breaking and innovative ideas over the years so it'll be interesting to see what they can do with a project like this.

[Oddball RS]

All the rubbish pipe dreams that get aired on here, like Lotus new 14 car line up and this weeks Chevy V8 engined 'Pornstar/superstar GT' made in the back of beyond and urs for £9m.

And this proposal gets all the stick? come on people grow up a little, it sounds ideal to me, and 'MAY' fit in to the market segment that Lotus are rapidly moving away from.

[Pionir]

Maybe they'll call it the Abarth X1/9?

[Agent Orange]

Isn't the reason they aren't using Lotus nor the Elise as a base more to do with this appearing to be a lightweight and fairly affordable roadster. Neither of which are characteristics of new Elise.

[Chris-R]

I think Fiat should make this instead. Does anyone really want an 'Italian Elise'?

[Daveyraveygravey]

That engine in a simple light weight "Elise-type" car could be absolutely brilliant! I hope they do it, and develop it with the PH/enthusiast audience in mind, not the fat old poseur audience...

[SAndals]

Chris-R said:

Does anyone really want an 'Italian Elise'?

Eh? Would anyone want a beautifully styled, lightweight performance roadster with stunning handling for £20k+?

Yeah, me!

[Agent Orange]

Chris-R said:

I think Fiat should make this instead. Does anyone really want an 'Italian Elise'?

No question they should make that.

But why wouldn't you want an Italian Elise? Given the current Elise seems to want to compete with the Boxter there won't be a British Elise soon.

[Stitch]

Riggers said:

filski666 said:

The basis of this car changes more regularly than a popstar's haircut.

Is it just some Italian pipe dream that will never see the light of day?

I really hope it does happen, but hope it stays pure and focused, and doesn't water down to something more "mainstream"

Edited by filski666 on Wednesday 27th October 10:36

I think the key is going to be finding enough sales to justify the massive investment involved in creating a car like this from scratch - there is no room for vanity projects in the automotive industry at the moment.

Read the Lotus forums, the releases at the Paris Motorshow have taken Lotus away from their current customer base. The next Elise will not be a watered down version of the original concept as the Series 2 was, it is a complete departure (heavier, more powerful, more expensive) the current Elise owner/buyer is going to have to go somewhere and this Abarth could be as good a place as any.

[robsti]

MarJay said:

So its a car that is going to have a ridiculously powerful, ridiculously economical engine, which is ridiculously light and ridiculously cheap?

I think there is a ridiculously low chance of it meeting all of those criteria.

Ridiculous!

[Riggers]

Stitch said:

Riggers said:

filski666 said:

The basis of this car changes more regularly than a popstar's haircut.

Is it just some Italian pipe dream that will never see the light of day?

I really hope it does happen, but hope it stays pure and focused, and doesn't water down to something more "mainstream"

Edited by filski666 on Wednesday 27th October 10:36

I think the key is going to be finding enough sales to justify the massive investment involved in creating a car like this from scratch - there is no room for vanity projects in the automotive industry at the moment.

Read the Lotus forums, the releases at the Paris Motorshow have taken Lotus away from their current customer base. The next Elise will not be a watered down version of the original concept as the Series 2 was, it is a complete departure (heavier, more powerful, more expensive) the current Elise owner/buyer is going to have to go somewhere and this Abarth could be as good a place as any.

A good point - and it could help Abarth's business case if they can tempt enough Elise customers over. If...

[kambites]

Riggers said:

A good point - and it could help Abarth's business case if they can tempt enough Elise customers over. If...

I think one of the problems that Lotus found with that market, is that most people who want that sort of car aren't the kind of people who buy a new car just because it's new and shiny. Of course there are a few who buy cars for the number plates, but I think most Elise owners will just keep their Elises.

I think what Fiat need to do, is to convince the domestic market (and the rest of the world) that they want this kind of car, rather than trying to poach the (rather geographically limited) Elise market.

Edited by kambites on Wednesday 27th October 12:06

[Chris-R]

SAndals said:

Chris-R said:

Does anyone really want an 'Italian Elise'?

Eh? Would anyone want a beautifully styled, lightweight performance roadster with stunning handling for £20k+?

Yeah, me!

Yes me too, but I bet it's more like +£30k when (if) it arrives in the UK. If not, it will be competing with Caterham. And if it does cost more? Well, it's not going to sell in viable numbers on brand heritage over here, is it?

So if there was a choice, I'd rather Fiat stuck its money into a new sporty Alfa. They could do both, of course - even better!

[jimbro1000]

Pionir said:

Maybe they'll call it the Abarth X1/9?

There never was one in the past - it was the Abarth Prototipo 2000...

The question of whether Abarth want to build this car is moot - they've been trying to do it ever since the Abarth brand was resurrected, the question is whether Alfa and Lancia will stamp all over the plans as Abarth were supposed to be using a shared front engined platform for their top-of-the-range sportscar but insisted on a mid-engined layout instead.

Fiat and Abarth don't have a good financial history on their mid-engined projects. Every single one was made at a loss (x1/9, Montecarlo/Scorpion, etc.)

This car has to be a success for Abarth or there won't be an Abarth by the time the rest of the Fiat empire has had their respective pounds of flesh.

[filski666]

I guess with the relative low numbers anticipated for this there is very little chance of a RHD version?

unless they go 3 seater a la McLaren F1......

[kambites]

filski666 said:

I guess with the relative low numbers anticipated for this there is very little chance of a RHD version?

unless they go 3 seater a la McLaren F1......

I can't see it having a central driving position, alas, so I think LHD only is a given if they make it at all.

There is a kit car company that makes an Elise-alike with a central driving position:

Edited by kambites on Wednesday 27th October 12:27