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matts360

Original Poster:

69 posts

87 months

[news] 
Wednesday 29th December 2010 quote quote all
HI and hope all had a great Christmas so far...

As our double oven decided to pack in on Christmas Day, its the OH's opinion that we need a new kitchen.... I agree as we have been talking about it for ages now and should probably take advantage of the January sales etc to capitalise on the 'bargains' to be had.

Heres the problem, and I am asking for help.

Our kitchen and Utility have a supporting 2.7m wall and doorway separating them, with small radiator and electric switch on the wall. The cost and disruption of taking this out could influence the design of the finished kitchen, and I am asking for any advice on how much as a ball-park figure, would it cost to remove the wall, using props etc, and installing a supporting RSJ. Also, what size RSJ would be required (strength) and how would it be installed (cant get my head around how they are installed)
If anyone has any tips or things to consider or thinks about before taking this on, then please assist away!

Thanks n all

Mattbanghead

B17NNS

12,494 posts

132 months

[news] 
Wednesday 29th December 2010 quote quote all
Fag packed calculation:

A structural engineer will need to calculate and specify the steel £80
Building control £80
Steel £100
Builder to install steel, remove wall and make good nibs £300
Acro/Strongboys hire £20
Skip £100
Sand/cement/plaster/padstones/sundries £100
Spark to move lightswitch £50
Plumber to relocate rad £100

Should come in at under £1k

matts360

Original Poster:

69 posts

87 months

[news] 
Wednesday 29th December 2010 quote quote all
B17NNS said:
Fag packed calculation:

A structural engineer will need to calculate and specify the steel £80
Building control £80
Steel £100
Builder to install steel, remove wall and make good nibs £300
Acro/Strongboys hire £20
Skip £100
Sand/cement/plaster/padstones/sundries £100
Spark to move lightswitch £50
Plumber to relocate rad £100

Should come in at under £1k
B17NNS,
Cheers mate, things are looking good then, or not.... well its going to be a long january...planning!

Thanks for the quick response.
Padstones, - I guess they are for the supporting wall / column tops, can an RSJ end be made to go into a joining wall, rather than having to have a brick column to support (if you get me)? - ie have no column showing on the new long run wall.

Matt


B17NNS

12,494 posts

132 months

[news] 
Wednesday 29th December 2010 quote quote all
Yes Matt the steel can sit on the inner skin of brickwork. It will need 100mm of bearing at each end (ie 100mm of each end of steel must be supported).

Padstones may or may not be neccesary - your SE will advise depending on what is there at the moment.

The steel will need to be double boarded (clad in 2 sheets of 1/2" plasterboard) to meet fire regs.

Spudler

3,021 posts

81 months

[news] 
Wednesday 29th December 2010 quote quote all
Carried out loads of these knock throughs, cheapest one being £1600.
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matts360

Original Poster:

69 posts

87 months

[news] 
Wednesday 29th December 2010 quote quote all
B17NNS said:
Yes Matt the steel can sit on the inner skin of brickwork. It will need 100mm of bearing at each end (ie 100mm of each end of steel must be supported).

Padstones may or may not be neccesary - your SE will advise depending on what is there at the moment.

The steel will need to be double boarded (clad in 2 sheets of 1/2" plasterboard) to meet fire regs.
Could it be clad in wood to resemble an old beam instead of plaster?

Ta

B17NNS

12,494 posts

132 months

[news] 
Wednesday 29th December 2010 quote quote all
matts360 said:
Could it be clad in wood to resemble an old beam instead of plaster?
Not sure about that to be honest, you would have to speak to the BCO but I would imagine you could clad it in whatever you like assuming that there is appropriate fire protection between the cladding and the steel.

Depending on the amount of disruption you are prepared to put up with, how much you want to spend and which way the floor joists run you could hide it in the void between ceiling and floor.

matts360

Original Poster:

69 posts

87 months

[news] 
Wednesday 29th December 2010 quote quote all
Thanks for your help chap, r u in the trade by the sounds of it?

Will let u know how I get on

Matt

B17NNS

12,494 posts

132 months

[news] 
Wednesday 29th December 2010 quote quote all
I've bought a few, done a few up and sold a few.

Good luck with the project, be good to see the pics!

Spudler

3,021 posts

81 months

[news] 
Wednesday 29th December 2010 quote quote all
matts360 said:
B17NNS said:
Yes Matt the steel can sit on the inner skin of brickwork. It will need 100mm of bearing at each end (ie 100mm of each end of steel must be supported).

Padstones may or may not be neccesary - your SE will advise depending on what is there at the moment.

The steel will need to be double boarded (clad in 2 sheets of 1/2" plasterboard) to meet fire regs.
Could it be clad in wood to resemble an old beam instead of plaster?

Ta
Yes it can be clad in timber.

Steel must first be clad in two layers of FIRECHECK board.

Steel must have a MIN of 150mm bearings, expect the inspector to ask for 200mm on pad stones or enginerring brick.

Zip106

7,501 posts

74 months

[news] 
Wednesday 29th December 2010 quote quote all
You only needed to ask me this the other night smile

I can bring my sledgehammer round tomorrow if you like :thumb:

B17NNS

12,494 posts

132 months

[news] 
Wednesday 29th December 2010 quote quote all
Spudler said:
Steel must first be clad in two layers of FIRECHECK board.

Steel must have a MIN of 150mm bearings, expect the inspector to ask for 200mm on pad stones or enginerring brick.
BCO's round my parts are happy with 2 layers of plasterboard re 1/2 hour fire resistance.

Steels can sit comfortably on a 100mm bearing (an innner skin of brickwork for example).

The structural engineer will specify everything taking into account the stresses involved.

_dobbo_

9,086 posts

133 months

[news] 
Wednesday 29th December 2010 quote quote all
B17NNS said:
Fag packed calculation:

A structural engineer will need to calculate and specify the steel £80
Building control £80
Steel £100
Builder to install steel, remove wall and make good nibs £300
Acro/Strongboys hire £20
Skip £100
Sand/cement/plaster/padstones/sundries £100
Spark to move lightswitch £50
Plumber to relocate rad £100

Should come in at under £1k
If you can find tradesmen to do this work for this kind of money you're doing very well or have an excellent pre-existing relationship.

£50 for a sparky?
£100 for a skip?

Not my experience and I shopped around and in some cases got mates rates....


Spudler

3,021 posts

81 months

[news] 
Wednesday 29th December 2010 quote quote all
B17NNS said:
Steels can sit comfortably on a 100mm bearing (an innner skin of brickwork for example).
Thats the only time they WILL allow 100 bearing, still needs to be spread on a pad or plate.

I guess the OP will soon find out what the BCO will require wink

B17NNS

12,494 posts

132 months

[news] 
Wednesday 29th December 2010 quote quote all
_dobbo_ said:
If you can find tradesmen to do this work for this kind of money you're doing very well or have an excellent pre-existing relationship.

£50 for a sparky?
£100 for a skip?

Not my experience and I shopped around and in some cases got mates rates....
4yd skip costs me £100.
Spark £120 a day

The majority of the rest I do myself.

_dobbo_

9,086 posts

133 months

[news] 
Wednesday 29th December 2010 quote quote all
Well you're doing much better than me then! Best price I could find for a skip was £150 - sparky to move a light switch cost me a fair bit more than £50 too... Guess it depends on the specifics of the job.

I paid about £1300 for a wall out RSJ in job - which was less than half what some builders quoted.


Spudler

3,021 posts

81 months

[news] 
Wednesday 29th December 2010 quote quote all
B17NNS said:
Spark £120 a day
rofl yeah rightrolleyes

I pay more than that for casual labour!

B17NNS

12,494 posts

132 months

[news] 
Wednesday 29th December 2010 quote quote all
Spudler said:
Thats the only time they WILL allow 100 bearing, still needs to be spread on a pad or plate.

I guess the OP will soon find out what the BCO will require wink
Not claiming to be an expert, just speaking from personal experience.

I've put steels in where the SE has specified 100mm bearing 'on solid brickwork' and where 7 N/mm humping great padstones with 200mm bearings have been specified.

Every project is individual and as such the OP should consult professionals to determine the correct way forward.

Good communications with SE, BCO and builder usually result in what everyone hopefully wants - a smooth, safe, quality job thumbup

Spudler

3,021 posts

81 months

[news] 
Wednesday 29th December 2010 quote quote all
B17NNS said:
Good communications with SE, BCO and builder usually result in what everyone hopefully wants - a smooth, safe, quality job thumbup
Cant argue with that! smile

B17NNS

12,494 posts

132 months

[news] 
Wednesday 29th December 2010 quote quote all
Spudler said:
B17NNS said:
Spark £120 a day
rofl yeah rightrolleyes

I pay more than that for casual labour!
Clearly a few regional differences at play.

In other news I can buy 2 up 2 down terraces for £50k.
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