E46 rear subframe mounts...
Discussion
I remember having read a few posts about E46 rear subframe mounts ripping out of the floor on certain models of a certain age.
Can anyone shed more light on this? Does/did it occur on just coupes, or are saloons or tourings affected also? When was the problem rectified - is what year onward would be considered safe?
Can anyone shed more light on this? Does/did it occur on just coupes, or are saloons or tourings affected also? When was the problem rectified - is what year onward would be considered safe?
pstruck said:
I remember having read a few posts about E46 rear subframe mounts ripping out of the floor on certain models of a certain age.
Can anyone shed more light on this? Does/did it occur on just coupes, or are saloons or tourings affected also? When was the problem rectified - is what year onward would be considered safe?
I've been considering an E46 M3 and have also been reading about the E46 subframe issue. I believe it generally tends to be the rear lhs mount mostly affected? Also tends to be pre 2001 cars although there have been some post 2001 affected. Question I'd like to know does this affect the convertible which I believe are strengthened in the floors and sills? I current run an E46 convertible. Can anyone shed more light on this? Does/did it occur on just coupes, or are saloons or tourings affected also? When was the problem rectified - is what year onward would be considered safe?
Happens to all of them. Has since E30 onwards. Haven't seen it happen to verts at all. Happens to anything from a 318i to an M3 2000-2006 and earlier models. Start tracking them and running coilovers it will happen quicker. Best way is prevention. Do all the rear end bushes and the subframe reinforcment kit from Turner in the US.
Edited by 02PRUV on Friday 31st December 09:42
02PRUV said:
Happens to all of them. Has since E30 onwards. Haven't seen it happen to verts at all. Happens to anything from a 318i to an M3 2000-2006 and earlier models. Start tracking them and running coilovers it will happen quicker. Best way is prevention. Do all the rear end bushes and the subframe reinforcment kit from Turner in the US.
It happened to My E30 325i sport! Edited by 02PRUV on Friday 31st December 09:42
, although to be fair, it was rarely driven gently (ah!, the follies of youth!).I believe E46 convertibles don't suffer from the condition because the boot floor where the sub frame fits to is already strengthened to recover some lost structural rigidity.
As for the rest of the E46 range, whilst there have been some cases of 318's to M3's suffering the problem, the vast majority have been the 323 and 328's as already mentioned.(I was under the impression that the M3's floor was already strengthened anyway as a matter of course for the design).
From a previous thread:
4rephill said:
If I recall correctly, BMW deal with this issue on a case by case basis and it may well be getting difficult to get them to rectify the problem now.
There were two repair methods used depending on if the cracks were above 20mm in length or over 20mm in length. If they were under 20mm then the cracks were repaired. If the cracks were over 20mm then the entire boot floor was replaced with a later reinforced floor.(see post #318 here: http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?p=1058... )
(Not sure if BMW UK did the structural epoxy repair as mentioned or welded strengthening plates to the area).
Be aware that the cost of repair for this issue can be as much as £4K~£5K at BMW due to the amount of labour involved and can take a couple of weeks to complete.
As has been said, it does not affect every single car but if you're contemplating buying an E46 328i, check it out carefully!.
BMW will still repair cars with the problem free of charge IF, AND ONLY IF, the cars are less than 10 years old and have a full service history (preferably a full BMW service history), and its still on a car by car basis.There were two repair methods used depending on if the cracks were above 20mm in length or over 20mm in length. If they were under 20mm then the cracks were repaired. If the cracks were over 20mm then the entire boot floor was replaced with a later reinforced floor.(see post #318 here: http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?p=1058... )
(Not sure if BMW UK did the structural epoxy repair as mentioned or welded strengthening plates to the area).
Be aware that the cost of repair for this issue can be as much as £4K~£5K at BMW due to the amount of labour involved and can take a couple of weeks to complete.
As has been said, it does not affect every single car but if you're contemplating buying an E46 328i, check it out carefully!.
I also believe that the repair now tends to be a strengthening kit that they fit rather than replace the entire floor.
Sorry to bring a thread back from the dead but I had never heard of this issue until I started to research a potential e46 track car.
Am I better off sticking to late e36 instead? From what I've read while it can effect the e36 as well, unless your using it for drifting it doesn't seem to be so much of a problem (where as the e46 seems to suffer under normal daily use).
Can anyone shed any light on how common these issues are on both model of cars.
Am I better off sticking to late e36 instead? From what I've read while it can effect the e36 as well, unless your using it for drifting it doesn't seem to be so much of a problem (where as the e46 seems to suffer under normal daily use).
Can anyone shed any light on how common these issues are on both model of cars.
[quote=(steven)]Sorry to bring a thread back from the dead but I had never heard of this issue until I started to research a potential e46 track car.
Am I better off sticking to late e36 instead? From what I've read while it can effect the e36 as well, unless your using it for drifting it doesn't seem to be so much of a problem (where as the e46 seems to suffer under normal daily use).
Can anyone shed any light on how common these issues are on both model of cars.
[/quote]
well ive only ever heard of it being a problem on pre 2001 cars, as somebody else said mainly the 323 and 328 which were very early e46 models
however i would consider an e36 over an e46 for a track car, and im an e46 owner (unless your considering an e46 m3, but i guess not)
your looking at around 4-6k for a reasonable 330, thats e36 m3 money. also the e36 is supposed to be a better drivers car.
a friend had an e36 m3 that was track prepped(upgraded LSD, suspension,bushes,stripped, exhaust and i think that was it)
compared to my 300ci it was an animal, the traction from the rear wheels was mind blowing
even if your budget only goes to the e36 328 then some sport ones came with an LSD, and the engine can be have its power increased by 15-20 bhp fairly easily(it left the factory with very restrictive intake system)
Am I better off sticking to late e36 instead? From what I've read while it can effect the e36 as well, unless your using it for drifting it doesn't seem to be so much of a problem (where as the e46 seems to suffer under normal daily use).
Can anyone shed any light on how common these issues are on both model of cars.
[/quote]
well ive only ever heard of it being a problem on pre 2001 cars, as somebody else said mainly the 323 and 328 which were very early e46 models
however i would consider an e36 over an e46 for a track car, and im an e46 owner (unless your considering an e46 m3, but i guess not)
your looking at around 4-6k for a reasonable 330, thats e36 m3 money. also the e36 is supposed to be a better drivers car.
a friend had an e36 m3 that was track prepped(upgraded LSD, suspension,bushes,stripped, exhaust and i think that was it)
compared to my 300ci it was an animal, the traction from the rear wheels was mind blowing
even if your budget only goes to the e36 328 then some sport ones came with an LSD, and the engine can be have its power increased by 15-20 bhp fairly easily(it left the factory with very restrictive intake system)
All of the affected cars are now over 10 years old, so BMW will NOT repair any of them for free anymore.
Yes, it can affect all models ('cept convertibles) but in 15 years I have NEVER seen the problem occur on ANY car later than Feb. 2000 build, when the floors were modified. This despite many internet rumpours, mostly from across the pond. Perhaps there is another problem over there.
That said, we are currently replacing the boot floor of an '03 Touring-though it has a strange history and is actually a pre-production car built in '99, registered later.
The warranty starts from reg date, not build date, so some could still be out there-check carefully!
Yes, it can affect all models ('cept convertibles) but in 15 years I have NEVER seen the problem occur on ANY car later than Feb. 2000 build, when the floors were modified. This despite many internet rumpours, mostly from across the pond. Perhaps there is another problem over there.
That said, we are currently replacing the boot floor of an '03 Touring-though it has a strange history and is actually a pre-production car built in '99, registered later.
The warranty starts from reg date, not build date, so some could still be out there-check carefully!
Actually a lot of what has been stated is not true anymore, there is a huge thread on M3 cutters of people who have found cracks in their rear boot floors in UK E46 M3's. Here's the general gist of that thread:
1.) Although convertibles are less affected, there are still some out there with cracked floors.
2.) It is the passenger side rear area that goes first.
3.) It affects ALL ages of E46 M3's now, manual or SMG, right through to 2005/6.
4.) To inspect for it properly the exhaust and diff need to be dropped. Most BMW dealers don't do this, take it to an independent to be inspected before BMW.
5.) As long as car is less than 10 years old BMW will repair the floor by fitting an entirely new one, some dealers are less reluctant to do this than others, but BMW HQ approves all the repairs.
As stated above, best thing do do is:
1.) reinforce the floor with a Turner Motorsport kit
2.) Lift off throttle completely between changes if you have an SMG.
1.) Although convertibles are less affected, there are still some out there with cracked floors.
2.) It is the passenger side rear area that goes first.
3.) It affects ALL ages of E46 M3's now, manual or SMG, right through to 2005/6.
4.) To inspect for it properly the exhaust and diff need to be dropped. Most BMW dealers don't do this, take it to an independent to be inspected before BMW.
5.) As long as car is less than 10 years old BMW will repair the floor by fitting an entirely new one, some dealers are less reluctant to do this than others, but BMW HQ approves all the repairs.
As stated above, best thing do do is:
1.) reinforce the floor with a Turner Motorsport kit
2.) Lift off throttle completely between changes if you have an SMG.
Checked my UK 2004 M3 Coupe and the floor in front of the drivers side mount has a small hairline crack (looking from rear) so no it does affect cars after those dates and my passenger side was absolutely fine. oh and FYI convertibles are not immune to this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scKLdW3x6oY
Does BMW still repair / reinforce for free? A guy working in parts at my local BMW dealer when I visited the other day before I found crack said he had seen 3 cars with the issue, but when I phoned after I found the crack the woman in service said she had never heard of it. BMW want £74 just to take a look! and if they don't end of fixing it that would have been £74 I could have put towards an indy garage welding the crack up.
Does BMW still repair / reinforce for free? A guy working in parts at my local BMW dealer when I visited the other day before I found crack said he had seen 3 cars with the issue, but when I phoned after I found the crack the woman in service said she had never heard of it. BMW want £74 just to take a look! and if they don't end of fixing it that would have been £74 I could have put towards an indy garage welding the crack up.
Edited by Mic2876uk on Saturday 20th April 11:03
Mic2876uk said:
Checked my UK 2004 M3 Coupe and the floor in front of the drivers side mount has a small hairline crack (looking from rear) so no it does affect cars after those dates and my passenger side was absolutely fine. oh and FYI convertibles are not immune to this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scKLdW3x6oY
Does BMW still repair / reinforce for free? A guy working in parts at my local BMW dealer when I visited the other day before I found crack said he had seen 3 cars with the issue, but when I phoned after I found the crack the woman in service said she had never heard of it. BMW want £74 just to take a look! and if they don't end of fixing it that would have been £74 I could have put towards an indy garage welding the crack up.
The only way to find out if BMW would repair your car for free is to ask them, as I posted back in 2011, it has always been done on a car by car basis and usually they require the car to have a full BMW service history.Does BMW still repair / reinforce for free? A guy working in parts at my local BMW dealer when I visited the other day before I found crack said he had seen 3 cars with the issue, but when I phoned after I found the crack the woman in service said she had never heard of it. BMW want £74 just to take a look! and if they don't end of fixing it that would have been £74 I could have put towards an indy garage welding the crack up.
Edited by Mic2876uk on Saturday 20th April 11:03
Also, it's not really just a case of welding the crack up, it needs some proper reinforcing doing to prevent it tearing again.
I was weighing up an E46 M3 for My next car but due to risks of floor tearing it's off the list now!
4rephill said:
Mic2876uk said:
Checked my UK 2004 M3 Coupe and the floor in front of the drivers side mount has a small hairline crack (looking from rear) so no it does affect cars after those dates and my passenger side was absolutely fine. oh and FYI convertibles are not immune to this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scKLdW3x6oY
Does BMW still repair / reinforce for free? A guy working in parts at my local BMW dealer when I visited the other day before I found crack said he had seen 3 cars with the issue, but when I phoned after I found the crack the woman in service said she had never heard of it. BMW want £74 just to take a look! and if they don't end of fixing it that would have been £74 I could have put towards an indy garage welding the crack up.
The only way to find out if BMW would repair your car for free is to ask them, as I posted back in 2011, it has always been done on a car by car basis and usually they require the car to have a full BMW service history.Does BMW still repair / reinforce for free? A guy working in parts at my local BMW dealer when I visited the other day before I found crack said he had seen 3 cars with the issue, but when I phoned after I found the crack the woman in service said she had never heard of it. BMW want £74 just to take a look! and if they don't end of fixing it that would have been £74 I could have put towards an indy garage welding the crack up.
Edited by Mic2876uk on Saturday 20th April 11:03
Also, it's not really just a case of welding the crack up, it needs some proper reinforcing doing to prevent it tearing again.
I was weighing up an E46 M3 for My next car but due to risks of floor tearing it's off the list now!
The guy who is getting his fixed there his last 2 services were not BMW. Although you could argue that a FBMWSH would not have prevented a crack forming.
TBH mate you'd struggle to find any car that does not have a big list of issues especially when you are looking at cars near a decade old.
I will report back if BMW do cover cost of repair / fix
the02shed said:
All of the affected cars are now over 10 years old, so BMW will NOT repair any of them for free anymore.
Yes, it can affect all models ('cept convertibles) but in 15 years I have NEVER seen the problem occur on ANY car later than Feb. 2000 build, when the floors were modified. This despite many internet rumpours, mostly from across the pond. Perhaps there is another problem over there.
That said, we are currently replacing the boot floor of an '03 Touring-though it has a strange history and is actually a pre-production car built in '99, registered later.
The warranty starts from reg date, not build date, so some could still be out there-check carefully!
Does anyone know more about this Feb 2000 change? My 328 Touring is a Feb 2000.Yes, it can affect all models ('cept convertibles) but in 15 years I have NEVER seen the problem occur on ANY car later than Feb. 2000 build, when the floors were modified. This despite many internet rumpours, mostly from across the pond. Perhaps there is another problem over there.
That said, we are currently replacing the boot floor of an '03 Touring-though it has a strange history and is actually a pre-production car built in '99, registered later.
The warranty starts from reg date, not build date, so some could still be out there-check carefully!
Ta
buggalugs said:
Does anyone know more about this Feb 2000 change? My 328 Touring is a Feb 2000.
Ta
My 2003/4 CSL had it's floor replaced under warranty. The new part isn't modified/ strengthened as I understand it. The repairer merely applies the resin to the new part to stop it flexing (and thus cracking again)Ta
Edit to add image of the replacement panel awaiting fitment.
Edited by Slippydiff on Saturday 20th April 23:25
4rephill said:
Mic2876uk said:
Checked my UK 2004 M3 Coupe and the floor in front of the drivers side mount has a small hairline crack (looking from rear) so no it does affect cars after those dates and my passenger side was absolutely fine. oh and FYI convertibles are not immune to this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scKLdW3x6oY
Does BMW still repair / reinforce for free? A guy working in parts at my local BMW dealer when I visited the other day before I found crack said he had seen 3 cars with the issue, but when I phoned after I found the crack the woman in service said she had never heard of it. BMW want £74 just to take a look! and if they don't end of fixing it that would have been £74 I could have put towards an indy garage welding the crack up.
The only way to find out if BMW would repair your car for free is to ask them, as I posted back in 2011, it has always been done on a car by car basis and usually they require the car to have a full BMW service history.Does BMW still repair / reinforce for free? A guy working in parts at my local BMW dealer when I visited the other day before I found crack said he had seen 3 cars with the issue, but when I phoned after I found the crack the woman in service said she had never heard of it. BMW want £74 just to take a look! and if they don't end of fixing it that would have been £74 I could have put towards an indy garage welding the crack up.
Edited by Mic2876uk on Saturday 20th April 11:03
Also, it's not really just a case of welding the crack up, it needs some proper reinforcing doing to prevent it tearing again.
I was weighing up an E46 M3 for My next car but due to risks of floor tearing it's off the list now!
The guy who is getting his fixed there his last 2 services were not BMW. Although you could argue that a FBMWSH would not have prevented a crack forming.
TBH mate you'd struggle to find any car that does not have a big list of issues especially when you are looking at cars near a decade old.
I will report back if BMW do cover cost of repair / fix
Mic2876uk said:
Hi I've found a dealer via M3cutters that is currently fixing another M3, So I have phoned Mark who works in the body shop at Dick Lovett Bristol and he said bring it in and I will inspect for free, he will then send the photos to BMW who will then decide if they are going to fix free of charge.
The guy who is getting his fixed there his last 2 services were not BMW. Although you could argue that a FBMWSH would not have prevented a crack forming.
Totally agree that a FBMWSH would not have prevented the crack forming, it's simply a way of BMW avoiding having to do a free repair in some cases (I believe in the USA due to their laws they pretty much do the free repairs as a matter of course).The guy who is getting his fixed there his last 2 services were not BMW. Although you could argue that a FBMWSH would not have prevented a crack forming.
Mic2876uk said:
TBH mate you'd struggle to find any car that does not have a big list of issues especially when you are looking at cars near a decade old.
I will report back if BMW do cover cost of repair / fix
Again, totally agree, chances are a decade old car is going to come with some issues and on a ///M series car they're could be pricey to put right.I will report back if BMW do cover cost of repair / fix
There are certain costs that are not going to bother Me on an ///M car but things like the boot floor cracking on an M3 is a possible cost that I'm not prepared to risk.
(I've already had an E30 325i Sport that ripped it's diff out at "motorway" speeds! - pretty firework display from the arse of the car when it happened at 1am on the M1!
Turned out the diff was barely hanging on by the remains of one bolt and the potential cost of the repair was the end of the line for that car and Me. I owned that car for 13years and it had a FBMWSH and yet it was never noticed that the diff was pulling away from the boot floor!)As it stands right now I've decided to leave the ///M's for a bit longer to save some extra cash and go for a younger one. Once I have the money saved to buy the car plus @ £5K extra to cover any running costs, then I'll take the plunge (and yes, I know an ///M car can eat £5K very quickly but I'll still be adding to My savings each month anyway so it shouldn't be a problem - famous last words!
).I'm in no hurry and the constantly rising costs of insurance, petrol and general costs of running an ///M series is actually working in My favour!
Good luck with your repairs, hope you get it sorted for free (or for a very low cost at the least!
)
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