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Monday 17th January 2011

PH2: E-Bike Races To Podium

Electric bikes on a charge. (Sits Vac: PH headline writer reqd.)


158mph, but does it sound right?
158mph, but does it sound right?
You probably know that since 2009 there's been a class at the Isle of Man TT races for electric bikes. Last year the winning bike nearly broke the magic 100mph average lap and topped 135mph through the Sulby speed trap. This year someone is bound to break into three figures, especially if an electric bike's recent performance in America is anything to go by.

A bike prepared by the SWIGZ racing team and ridden by a bloke called Chip Yates was entered into a round of the WERA Heavy Superbike Twins race in California and finished third. That's against conventional petrol-burning race bikes. Amazing result, but it's the electric bike's top speed that's caught my eye: 158mph. Of course, short circuit racing is a very different game to the TT. The Americans would probably have to turn their bike down a bit for it to manage one 37 mile lap of the TT course.

So are we going to see electric superbikes on the road? Not for a long time I'd imagine. Electric scooters strike me as a good idea, but an electric sports bike not really. For one thing there's the lack of noise. A couple of years ago I rode a Ducati Desmosedici, one of the best sounding engines I've ever heard. A Ducati that hummed wouldn't be the same.

Yonah
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Mr Gear

Original Poster:

9,155 posts

78 months

[news] 
Monday 17th January 2011 quote quote all
"So are we going to see electric superbikes on the road? Not for a long time I'd imagine."

You'd imagine wrong then. http://www.mavizen.com/TTX02.html

Built in the UK too.


tonym911

5,779 posts

93 months

[news] 
Monday 17th January 2011 quote quote all
Not bad. Would the power remain constant throughout a race, or does it tail off as the batts lose charge? Does the braking system recuperate power?

Mr Gear

Original Poster:

9,155 posts

78 months

[news] 
Monday 17th January 2011 quote quote all
tonym911 said:
Not bad. Would the power remain constant throughout a race, or does it tail off as the batts lose charge? Does the braking system recuperate power?
According to the rider, the bike was showing 100% voltage at the finish of this sprint race, but as the batteries deplete, there would be a voltage drop and corresponding performance drop also, but I have no idea at what point this would happen with the bike in the original article.

Edited by Mr Gear on Monday 17th January 11:37

Dontlift

9,396 posts

146 months

[news] 
Monday 17th January 2011 quote quote all
R
E
P
O
S
T

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

Come on newbie, get with the program!!!!!!!!!!!!

Whats the point of PH2, if all it is going to do is regurgitate stuff we have already covered in the forum

Edited by Dontlift on Monday 17th January 11:42

Fleegle

12,881 posts

64 months

[news] 
Monday 17th January 2011 quote quote all
Mr Gear said:
"So are we going to see electric superbikes on the road? Not for a long time I'd imagine."

You'd imagine wrong then. http://www.mavizen.com/TTX02.html

Built in the UK too.
Yes, and do you know how much? Lets put it this way, a brand new R1 is a bargain compared to these.

As said before, these are not the way forward.

We are supposed to be looking for a replacement to fossil fuelled vehicles. Pray tell me, how is most of the electricity produced in this country?

Added to that, what about using them to cover a large distance? There was an article on the early BBC news last week where a driver attempted to get from London to Edingburgh in an electric mini - it took him four and a half days!
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sprinter1050

11,307 posts

115 months

[news] 
Monday 17th January 2011 quote quote all
^^ Easy there DL- he's still learning the wonders of our ways biggrin:

From watching the original video I wondered what the engine braking effect (if any) was like ?
It certainly sailed past the juice powered bikes though on the straights-despite a severe weight disadvantage ! Wow.

jp-speed-triple

1,504 posts

75 months

[news] 
Monday 17th January 2011 quote quote all
Mr Gear said:
tonym911 said:
Not bad. Would the power remain constant throughout a race, or does it tail off as the batts lose charge? Does the braking system recuperate power?
According to the rider, the bike was showing 100% voltage at the finish of this sprint race, but as the batteries deplete, there would be a voltage drop and corresponding performance drop also, but I have no idea at what point this would happen with the bike in the original article.

Edited by Mr Gear on Monday 17th January 11:37
I expect there is a managment system in there that prevents this happening (within its operating brackets).

sprinter1050

11,307 posts

115 months

[news] 
Monday 17th January 2011 quote quote all
Fleegle said:
We are supposed to be looking for a replacement to fossil fuelled vehicles. Pray tell me, how is most of the electricity produced in this country?

Added to that, what about using them to cover a large distance? There was an article on the early BBC news last week where a driver attempted to get from London to Edingburgh in an electric mini - it took him four and a half days!
My views exactly- especially the bit about how we produce electricity in UK. ( another argument to go nuclear IMHO but them Greenies will block that because they can't see beyond their stuck up pompous conks)

I saw the BBC article about the guy in the e-Mini -apparently in one town where he stopped to charge it most of the town turned out to greet him as NOBODY had ever used the ONLY charge point in their town rofl

Mr Gear

Original Poster:

9,155 posts

78 months

[news] 
Monday 17th January 2011 quote quote all
Fleegle said:
Mr Gear said:
"So are we going to see electric superbikes on the road? Not for a long time I'd imagine."

You'd imagine wrong then. http://www.mavizen.com/TTX02.html

Built in the UK too.
Yes, and do you know how much? Lets put it this way, a brand new R1 is a bargain compared to these.

As said before, these are not the way forward.

We are supposed to be looking for a replacement to fossil fuelled vehicles. Pray tell me, how is most of the electricity produced in this country?

Added to that, what about using them to cover a large distance? There was an article on the early BBC news last week where a driver attempted to get from London to Edingburgh in an electric mini - it took him four and a half days!
I'd have one tomorrow if it met my price requirements. The fact that it doesn't is hardly any surprise given that it's emergent technology. But £30k is not prohibitive for what you are getting. I can't afford a 3D TV right now, but I daresay I will have one within a few years.

Charging an electric vehicle from a fossil-fuelled power source is STILL better Co2-wise than burning fossil fuels if you care about such things. This point has been covered many times in relation to electric car discussions on this forum.

As for the BBC report... I said even before they started the journey that it was a total farce. They knew the range of the vehicle before they even got in it, so I don't know what they were trying to prove. To quote someone from another thread:


thinfourth2 said:
Next week the BBC will do the return journey in a dishwasher.

Garlick

40,601 posts

128 months

[news] 
Monday 17th January 2011 quote quote all
Dontlift said:
R
E
P
O
S
T

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

Come on newbie, get with the program!!!!!!!!!!!!

Whats the point of PH2, if all it is going to do is regurgitate stuff we have already covered in the forum
Fair point, but we do this with the car stuff occasionally too. Firstly we do miss things that have been posted on the forums, but it's important to consider that not everyone reads the forums. The homepage attracts readers who may not venture into here (3 million+ uniques site wide, 300k active on the forums), so both are important.

Also, the car chaps won't venture into here that often, so it's a wider education of the biking world to the PH audience biggrin

Dontlift

9,396 posts

146 months

[news] 
Monday 17th January 2011 quote quote all
Garlick said:
Also, the car chaps won't venture into here that often
Trust me, this is a good thing lol

We tend to string em up from the gateposts biggrin

carse

66 posts

105 months

[news] 
Monday 17th January 2011 quote quote all
The torque of that thing is very impressive. As it's available from zero revs too, surely that thing is a high side monster? Or have they developed some sort of T/C for it too?

Mr Gear

Original Poster:

9,155 posts

78 months

[news] 
Monday 17th January 2011 quote quote all
Garlick said:
Fair point, but we do this with the car stuff occasionally too. Firstly we do miss things that have been posted on the forums, but it's important to consider that not everyone reads the forums. The homepage attracts readers who may not venture into here (3 million+ uniques site wide, 300k active on the forums), so both are important.

Also, the car chaps won't venture into here that often, so it's a wider education of the biking world to the PH audience biggrin
If a PH news article gets added after a thread has already started, could the thread and article be merged?

Max_Torque

8,412 posts

105 months

[news] 
Monday 17th January 2011 quote quote all
Why oh Why do people insist on publishing stuff like this, then jumping up and down on the "electric" is amazing bandwagon! Every race bike (or car for that matter) is built to regulations, which unfortunately, do not allow the engineers to go completely mad. So, when you turn up in an electric bike, the regulations are not writen for that system and mean that the electric machines performance can often be comparable. If however, you spent the same money (develoment and components) on the gasoline bikes as on the electric bike, then i'm afraid the electric version simply wouldn't see which way the gas ones had gone.......... (well certainly not after more than 1 lap ;-)


(as to the "voltage was still 100% at the end of the race, er, B0110cks, so somehow, not only did the bike have 100% efficient regen, but it also managed to have zero aerodrag or rolling/mechanical friction as well.......... if this is true, forget racing bikes, that's the future of the whole planets energy needs right there!)

RemaL

21,764 posts

122 months

[news] 
Monday 17th January 2011 quote quote all
Mr Gear said:
Garlick said:
Fair point, but we do this with the car stuff occasionally too. Firstly we do miss things that have been posted on the forums, but it's important to consider that not everyone reads the forums. The homepage attracts readers who may not venture into here (3 million+ uniques site wide, 300k active on the forums), so both are important.

Also, the car chaps won't venture into here that often, so it's a wider education of the biking world to the PH audience biggrin
If a PH news article gets added after a thread has already started, could the thread and article be merged?
a good suggestions Mt Gear

Fleegle

12,881 posts

64 months

[news] 
Monday 17th January 2011 quote quote all
Mr Gear said:
I'd have one tomorrow if it met my price requirements. The fact that it doesn't is hardly any surprise given that it's emergent technology. But £30k is not prohibitive for what you are getting.

As for the BBC report... I said even before they started the journey that it was a total farce. They knew the range of the vehicle before they even got in it, so I don't know what they were trying to prove.
Would you really have one tomorrow? I call bullst! I agree that the cost will reduce once there is a buy in to the technology, but the only way people will start buying them is that they either eat lentils or that petrol becomes prohibitively priced thus forcing us that way. Why would you restrict yourself to a vehicle with limited distance and a necessary charge period?

The BBC's attempt may have been farcical, but it was out to prove just that! If the government were so keen to embrace electric powered vehicles, do you not think there would have been more frequently positioned top up points?

Mr Gear

Original Poster:

9,155 posts

78 months

[news] 
Monday 17th January 2011 quote quote all
Max_Torque said:
Why oh Why do people insist on publishing stuff like this, then jumping up and down on the "electric" is amazing bandwagon! Every race bike (or car for that matter) is built to regulations, which unfortunately, do not allow the engineers to go completely mad. So, when you turn up in an electric bike, the regulations are not writen for that system and mean that the electric machines performance can often be comparable. If however, you spent the same money (develoment and components) on the gasoline bikes as on the electric bike, then i'm afraid the electric version simply wouldn't see which way the gas ones had gone.......... (well certainly not after more than 1 lap ;-)


(as to the "voltage was still 100% at the end of the race, er, B0110cks, so somehow, not only did the bike have 100% efficient regen, but it also managed to have zero aerodrag or rolling/mechanical friction as well.......... if this is true, forget racing bikes, that's the future of the whole planets energy needs right there!)
Voltagte isn't the same thing as how much energy is in the battery. That is measured in Amp-hours. Voltage will stay high until you start to reach the end of your amp hours.

But I agree that comparing electric bikes with petrol bikes is only helpful if you know what regulations everything is built to. The fairest way to compare them is let both vehicles start the race with the same amount of energy on board... petrol or electric can be measured in joules. Although I have a feeling this would give the electric bike a HUGE advantage given that they don't waste anywhere near as much energy in heat etc. wink

NDNDNDND

81 posts

71 months

[news] 
Monday 17th January 2011 quote quote all
That noise is cool at first... but quickly gets tiresome. By the end of the vid, I was begging for the camera to be strapped to one of those Ducatis!

carse

66 posts

105 months

[news] 
Monday 17th January 2011 quote quote all
Max_Torque said:
Why oh Why do people insist on publishing stuff like this, then jumping up and down on the "electric" is amazing bandwagon! Every race bike (or car for that matter) is built to regulations, which unfortunately, do not allow the engineers to go completely mad. So, when you turn up in an electric bike, the regulations are not writen for that system and mean that the electric machines performance can often be comparable. If however, you spent the same money (develoment and components) on the gasoline bikes as on the electric bike, then i'm afraid the electric version simply wouldn't see which way the gas ones had gone.......... (well certainly not after more than 1 lap ;-)


(as to the "voltage was still 100% at the end of the race, er, B0110cks, so somehow, not only did the bike have 100% efficient regen, but it also managed to have zero aerodrag or rolling/mechanical friction as well.......... if this is true, forget racing bikes, that's the future of the whole planets energy needs right there!)
I completely understand your point Max Torque and agree with you in your observation of the rules in most formulas being advantageous towards new technologies that enter - take Le Mans in recent years with the introduction of the diesels. They trounced the petrol cars because the regs were in their favour.

News like this is still good to hear though, as it means people are actively developing new technologies and ways in which to try and go faster. Granted it might not sound as good as a petrol engine or be quite as fast outright at the moment, but I'm sure plenty of people were skeptical about chopping in their horse for their first car, and look where we are today.

All I'm saying is the level of engineering to get a ZE bike to that stage of development in a relatively sort space of time relative to petrol-propulsion is pretty impressive and should be admired.

Mr Gear

Original Poster:

9,155 posts

78 months

[news] 
Monday 17th January 2011 quote quote all
Fleegle said:
Would you really have one tomorrow? I call bullst! I agree that the cost will reduce once there is a buy in to the technology, but the only way people will start buying them is that they either eat lentils or that petrol becomes prohibitively priced thus forcing us that way. Why would you restrict yourself to a vehicle with limited distance and a necessary charge period?
Yeah, I really would. 99% of my riding is a commute which is a 30-mile round trip. I love road-trips too, but I could hire a bike for that. I'd save money AND have the best bike for the job on both the commute and any fun-ride.

The same goes for the electric Mini. Anyone that owned one would be certifiably insane to attempt to drive one up to Edinburgh, when you can hire an I/C car for £40 for a weekend.


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