944 TURBO POWER MODS
Discussion
what Cuneus said 
I have the level 1 Promax kit and dyno tested at 300bhp and 330lbft (but we all know that dynos differ - see Dogsharks )
1987 250bhp cars had M030 as standard. I personally think (some disagree) that it was still standard in '88 and '89 as most cars have it, but a few don't. Maybe they had it deleted as new. 1990 onwards it was an option and very few cars have it.
I have the level 1 Promax kit and dyno tested at 300bhp and 330lbft (but we all know that dynos differ - see Dogsharks
) 1987 250bhp cars had M030 as standard. I personally think (some disagree) that it was still standard in '88 and '89 as most cars have it, but a few don't. Maybe they had it deleted as new. 1990 onwards it was an option and very few cars have it.
The Uk-spec Turbo had the M030 as standard in 1989. In 1988 (the last year of the 220 bhp turbo cars) Porsche offered a limited edition 250 bhp version (known as the "silver rose cars". In 89, the "silver rose" cars became the standard Yurbo model, with the inclusion of a sunroof.
In 1990 the M030 suspension, and LSD became options.
The easiest mods are:
-Boost enhancer. From the promax website above. £100. Very, very worhtwhile improvement
-Replace the vacuum hoses under the bonnet. makes the engine smoother, the heater will work better.
-Bailey dump valve
You could go silly with mods (the highest reliable power output I know about is 442 bhp) but the ones i have listed above are very worthwhile mods for relatively little outlay.
Hope this helps
Will
89 Turbo
In 1990 the M030 suspension, and LSD became options.
The easiest mods are:
-Boost enhancer. From the promax website above. £100. Very, very worhtwhile improvement
-Replace the vacuum hoses under the bonnet. makes the engine smoother, the heater will work better.
-Bailey dump valve
You could go silly with mods (the highest reliable power output I know about is 442 bhp) but the ones i have listed above are very worthwhile mods for relatively little outlay.
Hope this helps
Will
89 Turbo
And I have an 89 without sunroof (but with M030
).Th boost enhancer may not increase actaul maximum power, though I think it would do if you had a pretty tired wastegate qhixch many of these cars now have. However it definately improvs access to power, which has a huge impact on how the car drives. Mine is an 86 car which was chipped and remapped at AMD and had the wastegate reshimmed at the same time.
The differcne the B/E makes to the mid range in third and fourth is quite amazing.
The differcne the B/E makes to the mid range in third and fourth is quite amazing.
All 250 cars had the LSD, they also carry over all the other Turbo S parts, 928 s4 brakes, gearbox cooler, hardened 1st and 2nd gears, etc. The 1990 cars did not have the M030 but the springs were too the same rates the Anti roll bars the same diameter, but the shocks were not adjustable.
I would recomend
Promax /guru kit for more power (chips/FPR/wastegate shims)
Then new wastegate / dump valve
Then injectors / MAP/MAF / 2.8 engine
Increasing cost as you progress!
Boost enhancer will give you more power if your wastegate spring is weak and your car is producing less than 250BHP.
Tony
I would recomend
Promax /guru kit for more power (chips/FPR/wastegate shims)
Then new wastegate / dump valve
Then injectors / MAP/MAF / 2.8 engine
Increasing cost as you progress!
Boost enhancer will give you more power if your wastegate spring is weak and your car is producing less than 250BHP.
Tony
The BE will NOT increase power. The question was how to increase power over 250BHP, e.g. to 300.
There is no way at all that a BE will increase power above the cars maximum. This of course assumes that all is in good order, e.g. wastegate springs, plug leads, non slipping clutch, correct fuel etc. etc. If the car is in good order, the BE will NOT increase power. It will of course make it easier to drive, e.g. retain the boost in the turbo for more instant use, (less lag).
Yes I have a 944T, BE, uprated antiroll's, remapped, tuned, uprated brakes, etc. etc.
Look at Andrew S and David S web pages, both listed before.
When you want to increase power, the question you should ask yourself is: How do I know that the power (BHP Torque) has increased). You may buy some bulbs that give 30% increase in light. You beleive the sales pitch. But, logically, how can you know that thay have increased your beam light by 30%?.
With power increases, your car is individual. The sales pitch will state something like , on a 250 turbo, we now get 5204 BHP. The car that this was tested on was most certainly very finely tuned. Your car may not acheive the sales pitch power claims. But, how can you tell.
As most of us have done. Put your car on a certified rolling road. This will show the current power, adjusted for height above sea level, atmospheric condition on the day, etc. Have the power upgrade (what ever you are buying) installed. Put the car back on the rolling road/dyno. You now have a set of before and after power plots. This is the only way that you can tell what YOUR car's power is. (BTW did I mention, a BE won't increase power, even with a tired wastegate spring).
Hi Dave, Hi Paul
>> Edited by Pete Cros on Thursday 29th April 14:13
>> Edited by Pete Cros on Thursday 29th April 14:18
There is no way at all that a BE will increase power above the cars maximum. This of course assumes that all is in good order, e.g. wastegate springs, plug leads, non slipping clutch, correct fuel etc. etc. If the car is in good order, the BE will NOT increase power. It will of course make it easier to drive, e.g. retain the boost in the turbo for more instant use, (less lag).
Yes I have a 944T, BE, uprated antiroll's, remapped, tuned, uprated brakes, etc. etc.
Look at Andrew S and David S web pages, both listed before.
When you want to increase power, the question you should ask yourself is: How do I know that the power (BHP Torque) has increased). You may buy some bulbs that give 30% increase in light. You beleive the sales pitch. But, logically, how can you know that thay have increased your beam light by 30%?.
With power increases, your car is individual. The sales pitch will state something like , on a 250 turbo, we now get 5204 BHP. The car that this was tested on was most certainly very finely tuned. Your car may not acheive the sales pitch power claims. But, how can you tell.
As most of us have done. Put your car on a certified rolling road. This will show the current power, adjusted for height above sea level, atmospheric condition on the day, etc. Have the power upgrade (what ever you are buying) installed. Put the car back on the rolling road/dyno. You now have a set of before and after power plots. This is the only way that you can tell what YOUR car's power is. (BTW did I mention, a BE won't increase power, even with a tired wastegate spring).
Hi Dave, Hi Paul
>> Edited by Pete Cros on Thursday 29th April 14:13
>> Edited by Pete Cros on Thursday 29th April 14:18
OK answering the question directly guru/promax (1a) kits seems to give around 300BHP with reliaboost/fpr/wastegate shims/chips (OTS). On the PCGB forum 2 250 cars have been RR one is around 300BHP the other 330BHP, the 220 cars seem to come in at 280BHP. On my car / not yet RR waiting for tial wastegate, the driveability was improved.
Real gains cheap price. Worth adding an aftermarket Boost guage before fitting. I also fitted Air /Fuel ratio.
Tony
P.S. Hi Pete
Real gains cheap price. Worth adding an aftermarket Boost guage before fitting. I also fitted Air /Fuel ratio.
Tony
P.S. Hi Pete
Pete Cros said:
Hi Dave, Hi Paul
Hi Pete
hope to see you on track this year. Funnily enough when I had mine dyno'd a fortnight ago I was there with a 220Turbo owner and we did a before and after run with a boost enhancer. The plots were almost identical, with the boost enhancer having just a few more bhp and lbft being added a little earlier in the rev range, but the peak power figures were actually a little less!
The graphs were really very similar, yet to drive the car its a totally different animal. The lag without the BE is just terrible, the car feels awful.
Nah, you just need to look at the US for 951 tuning, 300bhp is for wussies, if you're not aiming for 400bhp+ you're still in the little league
Kokeln.com have a nice 951 called 'Flipper' pushing out over 480 REAR WHEEL bhp that they use for racing - take a look on their R&D section...
Fox
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>> Edited by neon_fox on Friday 14th May 13:08
Kokeln.com have a nice 951 called 'Flipper' pushing out over 480 REAR WHEEL bhp that they use for racing - take a look on their R&D section...
Fox
---
>> Edited by neon_fox on Friday 14th May 13:08
Actually I think there is a renewed interest in the 944T here in the UK purely because the modification market has become a lot more competetive and the modifications a lot more reliable. We have to remember that the average 944T owner does not have megabucks and therefore cannot afford some of the prices charged. He also cannot afford new head gaskets or pistons if things go wrong.
For a long time AMD had the market for 944T tuning and could therefore charge what they liked. Market forces are always like this. Recently a number of people have started buying kits from the US and now here in the Uk from Promax. People have also realised that you can buy a proper dual port TiAL wastegate in the US for well under £300 once shipping, import and VAT have been added.
So there is no need to spend £600 rebuilding the flawed factory version. You can then sell your factory wastegate to recoup back another £100
On the Titanic 944 and PCGB forums there are now about a dozen 944T owners going down similar routes, helping eachother and learning as we go. The current big thing is an affordable MAP kit to replace the restrictive 'barn door' air flow meter. For circa £800 this 'should' bring a car up to the 350bhp 380lbft level with much less turbo lag, but only if the weak wastegate has already been addressed so you can hold the power increase to the redline. For longeivity the boost is only mildly increased to 1.05 bar
For a long time AMD had the market for 944T tuning and could therefore charge what they liked. Market forces are always like this. Recently a number of people have started buying kits from the US and now here in the Uk from Promax. People have also realised that you can buy a proper dual port TiAL wastegate in the US for well under £300 once shipping, import and VAT have been added.
So there is no need to spend £600 rebuilding the flawed factory version. You can then sell your factory wastegate to recoup back another £100
On the Titanic 944 and PCGB forums there are now about a dozen 944T owners going down similar routes, helping eachother and learning as we go. The current big thing is an affordable MAP kit to replace the restrictive 'barn door' air flow meter. For circa £800 this 'should' bring a car up to the 350bhp 380lbft level with much less turbo lag, but only if the weak wastegate has already been addressed so you can hold the power increase to the redline. For longeivity the boost is only mildly increased to 1.05 bar
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Sorry to hear about your experience, but its not the norm, by a long shot. 330bhp is still relativly mild tuning for a 2.5l engine. Consider you are talking about 15psi boost to get those numbers.
Talking about RSTs and R5 in the same breath as the 944t is just plain bonkers.
As with any car , buy the besyou can afford. Goin out and getting a £4k 944t and expecting it to run ok is silly. Good 944ts are atleast £10k prob more, and over the next few years you will see those valuse slow going up not down.
"Most 944 Turbos that are on the road will have a seized wastegate"
Really ? This never seems to be a problem
"The problem seems to be that the following is dying off a little"
I would say the exact opposite, When I had my turbo it was AMD only (well just about). They did a good job but there are now many developing alternatives (that are better!)
"Iv tried the aftermarket dual port wastegate. I also compared the two after 6 hours rolling road tests.
With the dual port it was not possible to remapp the car. With the dual port at itts standard setting which is supposed to be 'factory' the car produced 230BHP with crap driveability. "
I have no idea what is going on here but this is complete twaddle. A wastegate is a really simple device and the dual port ones offer much better control
David Sims
www.944turbo.org.uk
Really ? This never seems to be a problem
"The problem seems to be that the following is dying off a little"
I would say the exact opposite, When I had my turbo it was AMD only (well just about). They did a good job but there are now many developing alternatives (that are better!)
"Iv tried the aftermarket dual port wastegate. I also compared the two after 6 hours rolling road tests.
With the dual port it was not possible to remapp the car. With the dual port at itts standard setting which is supposed to be 'factory' the car produced 230BHP with crap driveability. "
I have no idea what is going on here but this is complete twaddle. A wastegate is a really simple device and the dual port ones offer much better control
David Sims
www.944turbo.org.uk
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