Misfire - Changed loads but still there!
Discussion
Car is a Renault Clio 182 - [facepalm] looks like the electrics are playing up [/facepalm]
Done a lot of searching already but obviously a very common problem with lots of potential causes.
If i could get some feedback on the comments below that would be great.
Had emissions light come on solid periodically. But it goes off so had ignored it.
Misfire started gradually e.g. on motorway slight hesitation.
Changed coil pack to £30 ebay special. seemed OK
Developed into full blown misfire. Flashing emissions light. Towed home by RAC. Fault code lambda bank 1 sensor 1.
Changed plugs - found cylinder 1 plug well, and spark plug covered in oil from spill while topping up.
Changed leads to magnecor blue.
Misfire went away on idle, but came straight back when up to temp
Changed Lambda sensor.
Checked plugs - still slight oil residue on new no. 1 plug. Cleaned it off.
Misfire went away at idle, and on 15 min test drive. Next day moving the car around misfire came back.
Checked plugs no oil residue.
Cleaned throttle body and inside manifold. Fair bit of oil / gunge in there.
Cleaned MAP sensor, Cleaned plenum sensor (temp??) used brake cleaner... probably f
ked MAP up more?
Plugging and unplugging MAP sensor doesn't seem to make a difference... what SHOULD happen if you do??
Haven't checked injectors - do i need special tool?
Where is TDC sensor??
Will the missfire kill my new lambda and coil pack?
How sensitive is the car to proper NGK spark plugs - I just put in the reccomended Bosch plugs from eurocarparts.
I've dropped the oil and filters while we're at it too. but can't see how this would have an effect.
Done a lot of searching already but obviously a very common problem with lots of potential causes.
If i could get some feedback on the comments below that would be great.
Had emissions light come on solid periodically. But it goes off so had ignored it.
Misfire started gradually e.g. on motorway slight hesitation.
Changed coil pack to £30 ebay special. seemed OK
Developed into full blown misfire. Flashing emissions light. Towed home by RAC. Fault code lambda bank 1 sensor 1.
Changed plugs - found cylinder 1 plug well, and spark plug covered in oil from spill while topping up.
Changed leads to magnecor blue.
Misfire went away on idle, but came straight back when up to temp
Changed Lambda sensor.
Checked plugs - still slight oil residue on new no. 1 plug. Cleaned it off.
Misfire went away at idle, and on 15 min test drive. Next day moving the car around misfire came back.
Checked plugs no oil residue.
Cleaned throttle body and inside manifold. Fair bit of oil / gunge in there.
Cleaned MAP sensor, Cleaned plenum sensor (temp??) used brake cleaner... probably f
ked MAP up more?Plugging and unplugging MAP sensor doesn't seem to make a difference... what SHOULD happen if you do??
Haven't checked injectors - do i need special tool?
Where is TDC sensor??
Will the missfire kill my new lambda and coil pack?
How sensitive is the car to proper NGK spark plugs - I just put in the reccomended Bosch plugs from eurocarparts.
I've dropped the oil and filters while we're at it too. but can't see how this would have an effect.
It's definitely spark that's at fault? No vac leaks? Does it go away on full throttle?
I wouldn't buy any more parts.
I'll try and be useful instead of just asking questions :-) Disconnect the MAF to force it into open loop mode. Better or worse? Check for vac leaks, carb cleaner's the normal recommendation but a skooshy bottle of water works just as well, whatever you've got handy, WD40 will do. With the maf disconnected, skoosh / spray all the vac hoses, joins, breathers, round the brake servo, intake manifold gasket etc. any change in idle speed?
I wouldn't buy any more parts.
I'll try and be useful instead of just asking questions :-) Disconnect the MAF to force it into open loop mode. Better or worse? Check for vac leaks, carb cleaner's the normal recommendation but a skooshy bottle of water works just as well, whatever you've got handy, WD40 will do. With the maf disconnected, skoosh / spray all the vac hoses, joins, breathers, round the brake servo, intake manifold gasket etc. any change in idle speed?
There is no cam sensor on a 182. Crank sensors on 182s rarely fail as this part was an update on the older version for the 182 due to issues with the original 172 Ph1/Ph2 sensor.
There is also no MAF sensor, the Sirus ECU on the 182 is pressure based via a MAP sensor on the end of plenum, if this fails gracefully it'll run throttle based in limp mode.
You likely have a failing injector. Measure the resistance of each injector with a meter, if one is high/low compared to the other three change it. You will need to remove the crash cover on the fuel rail to access the injectors (deep 10mm socket with a 1/4 drive on the end will just fit). This would also match in with the lambda fault as the adaptions will be pulled to the limit with a failing injector which the ECU will assume is a lambda fault if the adaptions are pinned at the end of the range for a decent amount of time.
There is also no MAF sensor, the Sirus ECU on the 182 is pressure based via a MAP sensor on the end of plenum, if this fails gracefully it'll run throttle based in limp mode.
You likely have a failing injector. Measure the resistance of each injector with a meter, if one is high/low compared to the other three change it. You will need to remove the crash cover on the fuel rail to access the injectors (deep 10mm socket with a 1/4 drive on the end will just fit). This would also match in with the lambda fault as the adaptions will be pulled to the limit with a failing injector which the ECU will assume is a lambda fault if the adaptions are pinned at the end of the range for a decent amount of time.
Don't think Renault found anything on diagnostics. They tried changing the spark plugs, and it wasn't that. Then they did a compression test, which was fine, so tomorrow they're going to check the injectors.
So far for the bill for Diagnostic and 1.5hrs labour to check the injectors is £180.
So far for the bill for Diagnostic and 1.5hrs labour to check the injectors is £180.
Edited by Glade on Thursday 24th February 18:18
Glade said:
Don't think Renault found anything on diagnostics. They tried changing the spark plugs, and it wasn't that. Then they did a compression test, which was fine, so tomorrow they're going to check the injectors.
So far for the bill for Diagnostic and 1.5hrs labour to check the injectors is £180.
Why are you getting charged ? You're using a main dealer because it's under warranty surely ?So far for the bill for Diagnostic and 1.5hrs labour to check the injectors is £180.
Edited by Glade on Thursday 24th February 18:18
Otherwise, why on earth would you take a car to a main dealer ? Usually they are only barely capable of carrying out service work. No chance would I ever recommend a main dealer for any diagnostic work ! Even more so when you actually have to pay for it !!
Find a good local mechanic ( one that has a brain ) and they should be able to diagnose it.
stevieturbo said:
Why are you getting charged ? You're using a main dealer because it's under warranty surely ?
Otherwise, why on earth would you take a car to a main dealer ? Usually they are only barely capable of carrying out service work. No chance would I ever recommend a main dealer for any diagnostic work ! Even more so when you actually have to pay for it !!
Find a good local mechanic ( one that has a brain ) and they should be able to diagnose it.
heh, well... Not under warranty.Otherwise, why on earth would you take a car to a main dealer ? Usually they are only barely capable of carrying out service work. No chance would I ever recommend a main dealer for any diagnostic work ! Even more so when you actually have to pay for it !!
Find a good local mechanic ( one that has a brain ) and they should be able to diagnose it.
Used to use nationwide auto centre for bits I can't be arsed to do myself. Never took the piss, did a really good job. Good price. Then the manager changed, and the quote I had for the cambelt went up overnight. Thought it was a minor error so still took it there for the work.
Couple of weeks later went to open the bonnet - wouldn't spring open. Then I spotted some screws missing on bits of trim. Later when servicing myself found more bolts missing holding bumper within wheel arch, and trim under the car. So don't use them any more.
Needed somewhere quick, needed aux belt done which needs special tools (it really does and lots of places don't have them and bodge it) and I understand that the diagnostic kit most places have don't get as much info as the Renault Clip.
But you do have a very good point. I'm getting quotes from some local track/race car prep people for the Westy and their quotes are very good for cambelt work & carb adjustment. Also just on the quotes they take time to discuss the issues and will let me supply my own parts if i can get them cheaper etc... The Mrs took the car in and Renault were very patronising when she told them I'd changed a few bits myself... "oh he's a mechanic is he?" hmmmm
Ok, it's solved but at a price.
Renault found a problem with one of the injectors. They wanted to change all 4 for £600. (plus the aux belt that was also getting done). Can't stomach that, so I've got them to change just the broken injector, and do the aux belt.
so... £300 for aux belt, £356 for Diagnostics & replacing one injector. Picking the car up tomorrow.
TBH I think that if anyone gets a misfire, and you have the time... its probably cheaper to replace everything, than it would be at a dealership for diagnostics to get the single item replaced!(and then maybe you get an improvement for new lambda etc anyway)
Thanks for all the comments on the thread!
Renault found a problem with one of the injectors. They wanted to change all 4 for £600. (plus the aux belt that was also getting done). Can't stomach that, so I've got them to change just the broken injector, and do the aux belt.
so... £300 for aux belt, £356 for Diagnostics & replacing one injector. Picking the car up tomorrow.
TBH I think that if anyone gets a misfire, and you have the time... its probably cheaper to replace everything, than it would be at a dealership for diagnostics to get the single item replaced!(and then maybe you get an improvement for new lambda etc anyway)
Thanks for all the comments on the thread!
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