Do DSG gearboxes wear out like manuals and when
Discussion
Not asking about the reliability issues so often talked of, but more specifically whether (well when) DSG gearboxes typically wear down their friction plates and what the cost of a standard replacement is under these (non fault) conditions. Modern manual cluthes don't last like they used to since (I think this is the reason) they stopped using asbestos. Do DSG gearboxes share the same "lucky if you get to 100K" feature?
Really after the view of a technician who see's loads of these (or not!) to give a wider view.
I am thinking of a new A6, but if you want anything with more than the basic 4 pot, you have to have Multitronic or DSG. MT appears a no-no from the forums I have read, DSG a maybe, but I've not read anything about the standard life and standard costs of DSG friction plate repalcement. A manual (VAG) clutch is around £1000 these days (more through a VAG dealer), so if DSG's last upward of 90K and cost, say, £1500 for friction plate repalcement, it's not too bad (Even if a clutch really should be a £250 job like it used to be!!) I have test driven a Skoda Superb DSG (identical box of course) and it was in fact superb - the only auto gearbox I have ever driven to change gear when I would do so myself, only more smoothly. But the thought of costs down the line bother me - I always keep cars to at least 100,000 miles so long term costs are a major factor for me.
Really after the view of a technician who see's loads of these (or not!) to give a wider view.
I am thinking of a new A6, but if you want anything with more than the basic 4 pot, you have to have Multitronic or DSG. MT appears a no-no from the forums I have read, DSG a maybe, but I've not read anything about the standard life and standard costs of DSG friction plate repalcement. A manual (VAG) clutch is around £1000 these days (more through a VAG dealer), so if DSG's last upward of 90K and cost, say, £1500 for friction plate repalcement, it's not too bad (Even if a clutch really should be a £250 job like it used to be!!) I have test driven a Skoda Superb DSG (identical box of course) and it was in fact superb - the only auto gearbox I have ever driven to change gear when I would do so myself, only more smoothly. But the thought of costs down the line bother me - I always keep cars to at least 100,000 miles so long term costs are a major factor for me.
Tame Technician on another thread said:
I have worked for an Audi centre for just over two years now. Its hard to talk about reliability because I only ever see cars when they are broken. But I'd say up to 60,000 miles DSG is pretty bullet proof and beyond that your looking for trouble. We do on average 1 DSG mechatronics unit every 2 or 3 months or so. SO yes that is the bit that goes wrong, and Its not cheep, £2-3k i think. Complete box it £5K.
Compaired to the multi-tronic for example where we have a fault with one, on average once or twice a week and manuals where we might have a fault once or twice a year, usually worn sycro. (not counting clutches, we do hundreds)
SO to sum up, gearbox's. I would always go for the manual, consider DSG if milage going to be low, and couldnt recomend Muti to anyone. Normal tip-tronic auto is bullet proof too.
Compaired to the multi-tronic for example where we have a fault with one, on average once or twice a week and manuals where we might have a fault once or twice a year, usually worn sycro. (not counting clutches, we do hundreds)
SO to sum up, gearbox's. I would always go for the manual, consider DSG if milage going to be low, and couldnt recomend Muti to anyone. Normal tip-tronic auto is bullet proof too.
drybeer said:
Unless it's a C5 RS6.
You think we see these in a main Audi dealer, try practial classics.But seriously that quote of mine was from about 3/4 years ago, some things have changed since then.
I have mentioned serveral times that sealed for life gearbox's "The proper tip tronic ones", Made by ZF not Audi, used in Audi BMW Jaguar etc, All can have issues at big millages, typicall 100-120 thousand miles because from new the oil and filters would never have been change.
Changing them at every 40-60k or so would have them last much longer.
Your audi dealer will never and can never recommend an oil change for your gearbox unless the manufacturer does. Audi and ZF say they are sealed for life so that what the dealer will tell you too.
Do DSG gearboxes wear out like manuals
Er manual gearbox dont wear out, well not for 250,000 miles when you get noisey bearing and crunching syncros.
Clutchs should do 60,000-100,000 depending on the driver. And they are fixed price at arround £650+vat for cars over 3 years and under 2.0L engine size.
If you have an RS4, then yes its over a £1000 but for normal cars they are cheap as chips compared with any auto repaire/rebuild.
I've worked on Audi's for over 5 years now and I've never seen DSG box with worn clucth packs, they are always broken long before that bit wears out.
Er manual gearbox dont wear out, well not for 250,000 miles when you get noisey bearing and crunching syncros.
Clutchs should do 60,000-100,000 depending on the driver. And they are fixed price at arround £650+vat for cars over 3 years and under 2.0L engine size.
If you have an RS4, then yes its over a £1000 but for normal cars they are cheap as chips compared with any auto repaire/rebuild.
I've worked on Audi's for over 5 years now and I've never seen DSG box with worn clucth packs, they are always broken long before that bit wears out.
Tame Technician said:
drybeer said:
Unless it's a C5 RS6.
You think we see these in a main Audi dealer, try practial classics.But seriously that quote of mine was from about 3/4 years ago, some things have changed since then.
I have mentioned serveral times that sealed for life gearbox's "The proper tip tronic ones", Made by ZF not Audi, used in Audi BMW Jaguar etc, All can have issues at big millages, typicall 100-120 thousand miles because from new the oil and filters would never have been change.
Changing them at every 40-60k or so would have them last much longer.
Your audi dealer will never and can never recommend an oil change for your gearbox unless the manufacturer does. Audi and ZF say they are sealed for life so that what the dealer will tell you too.
Off topic as not DSG however ZF do recommend maintenance infact sell a service kit for it...
I work for an Audi main dealer so don't worry I realise you're "toeing the party line" however if Audi would have adopted a different service regime for the 'box then there would be far fewer going bang.
Have you seen any C6 RS6 in for transmission faults or just the DRC Tametech? (again sorry for the thread hijack)
We dont see hardly any old shape RS6's now at all.
Yes DRC issues are a typical dealer visit as few specialist have the tools.
Water logged convi units and the wiring faults that follow, that no else would touch, are also a possible.
I agree completely that the ZF gearbox's would last longer if they had been serviced.
My experience with Jaguar and ZF is since they changed from the cheap Dextron III oil in 1997 ish to the expensive esso I forget the number but its the brown oil, servicing was no longer recommended. It was definatly removed from the 60k service list.
Usually ZF dont release the parts while the box's are new, When 5HP was current we changed box's for most faults, but parts became available when 6HP came out, Think the new A7 and A8 have 8HP and BM have had it for a few years.
The boxes rarly failed before 120k ish, but then that milage seemed to be a common thing, heard same thing from mates at BMW at arround the same time, with basically the same ZF 5HP box's. When I moved to Audi (2006) there are far less Tip tronics but same policey and same outcome is evident.
Yes DRC issues are a typical dealer visit as few specialist have the tools.
Water logged convi units and the wiring faults that follow, that no else would touch, are also a possible.
I agree completely that the ZF gearbox's would last longer if they had been serviced.
My experience with Jaguar and ZF is since they changed from the cheap Dextron III oil in 1997 ish to the expensive esso I forget the number but its the brown oil, servicing was no longer recommended. It was definatly removed from the 60k service list.
Usually ZF dont release the parts while the box's are new, When 5HP was current we changed box's for most faults, but parts became available when 6HP came out, Think the new A7 and A8 have 8HP and BM have had it for a few years.
The boxes rarly failed before 120k ish, but then that milage seemed to be a common thing, heard same thing from mates at BMW at arround the same time, with basically the same ZF 5HP box's. When I moved to Audi (2006) there are far less Tip tronics but same policey and same outcome is evident.
Gassing Station | Audi, Seat, Skoda & VW | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff