RE: An 'M' For All Reasons?

RE: An 'M' For All Reasons?

Monday 11th April 2011

An 'M' For All Reasons?

Bargain M cars: If you can't afford one, you probably haven't got a job...


In the last couple of years the used values of some BMW M-cars have dropped to the point where there's now an M for every budget. If you have a full-time job, the odds are you'll be able to get yourself into one - although insuring it might be a different matter.

A 1996 M3 3.2 Evo for three and a bit?
A 1996 M3 3.2 Evo for three and a bit?
Like this one from our classifieds for example. Looks good doesn't it? Three months warranty, BMW service history, borderline supercar performance... and if you went along with your hobnail boots on and a handful of cash, you might be driving this sort of thing home for not much more than three grand. Less-tidy examples have changed hands for notably less than that too. Not bad. Not bad at all...

It's a similar story with the M5s as well. Good examples of E34s like this are showing signs of becoming collectable cars, but are still within reach value-wise. The later 5.0 V8 E39s, however, are starting to look like veritable performance bargains. One like this one could probably be yours for less than seven grand, and there are lots to choose from. So if you're patient you're likely to find exactly what you want.

E34s - starting to become collectable?
E34s - starting to become collectable?
Best of all perhaps is the news that in the case of cars like this - 'the daddy' of M5s - you could be rolling in one of the fastest saloons on planet earth... with a warranty...and on just 59,000 miles. Arguably at that mileage the car is in the prime of its supercar-humbling life, having been comprehensively serviced, and one like it could be tucked in your lock-up garage for under twenty grand now that its replacement has been announced. That'll be a car which - de-restricted - can do the best part of 200mph whilst carrying four people (three of whom might be a bit anxious at the time) without any performance enhancements. Hmm.

E39s - there are bargains to be had
E39s - there are bargains to be had
So that's that then. The allure of hand-built Bavarian quality and shattering performance has convinced you to take the plunge. It's probably a good idea too, except that although M-cars are superbly-engineered, strong cars, they do tend to have attracted the more 'enthusiastic' drivers out there. There are going to be downsides with owning any performance car, but to find out what to watch out for with these fast Beemers we spoke to Andrew Askey of Manchester-based independent BMW specialists BMTEC.

"First of all the engines themselves are pretty much bulletproof in our experience' he tells us. 'We've seen a few of the throttle housings fail on the V8, and they're not a repairable part. Once they've gone, they've gone, and the replacement part itself is around £600. Other than that, on the engine side of things you only need to look out for the VANOS device (BMW's variable valve timing dingus which alters cam timing by six degrees either way). There is a small filter at the front of them which you can clean, but if you're looking at one which is rattling - especially at high rpms - you might want to walk away because a specialist will relieve you of £2000 to do a complete replacement job."

...so who's the Daddy?
...so who's the Daddy?
And the transmissions? "Well we do see E36 M3s with clutch and transmission problems, but then again a lot of them are high-mileage cars nowadays that have been accident-repaired and/or have been through a dozen owners. I'd be looking very closely for any chassis repairs on an E36. Good, low-mileage examples are getting hard to find.' Surprisingly, while we were talking to Andrew about the E36 M3 he suggested that you might want to look for a later 330 diesel instead. He explained: 'You'd be amazed in real-world driving just how close they are performance-wise. In fact there are some in-gear scenarios where the diesel might actually be quicker than the M3."

There was one more area of concern in the transmissions department. "SMG gearboxes" he warns, 'especially on higher-mileage cars. When they go badly wrong, a lot of the time it's a BMW main-dealer job and to pay for it you'll be without any disposable income for the next six months! I've always preferred changing gear myself anyway to be honest..." In terms of any pitfalls, that was all Andrew had to tell us after more than twenty years of working with these cars. So would fellow PHers agree, or are there other potential horror stories?

The beauty of these machines is that each and every one is the absolute business to drive. They've always delivered flipping-great truckloads of performance whilst displaying a general reluctance to fall apart. A good BMW M-car is a driver's dream, and with values being what they are right now you really have no excuse not to consider one... Unless you'd prefer an AMG Merc' instead.

Author
Discussion

M666 EVO

Original Poster:

1,124 posts

162 months

Friday 8th April 2011
quotequote all
I still love the E30 M3 lick

MarJay

2,173 posts

175 months

Friday 8th April 2011
quotequote all
The issue is not affording to buy, it is affording the replacement parts, servicing and consumables. Not to mention petrol.

I think a tatty E36 M3 could be a potential deathtrap...

joesnow

1,533 posts

227 months

Friday 8th April 2011
quotequote all
Reconditioned vanos units can be had for around £700 with uprated internals too, from the company Mr.Vanos.
Fixed my M3 Evo a treat.

New bushes and suspension will put you back around £1200ish, on an Evo, and is an essential fix.

Inspection 2 services are around £450-700 as they include valve shim measurement.

PilotSports are around £180 a corner.

Not cheap to run, but good M3s do shift!

Tango13

8,423 posts

176 months

Friday 8th April 2011
quotequote all
MarJay said:
The issue is not affording to buy, it is affording the replacement parts, servicing and consumables. Not to mention petrol.

I think a tatty E36 M3 could be a potential deathtrap...
Absoloutly bang on! We are talking about cars that were anything up to £50k+ new and even if they only cost 1/10 of that to buy now they still have £50k+ running costs.

An e39 M5 for £7k is a bargain until you need a new clutch which will cost circa £1200 parts and labour or an oil change, £100 for oil and filter plus labour.


Mr Dave

3,233 posts

195 months

Friday 8th April 2011
quotequote all
joesnow said:
Reconditioned vanos units can be had for around £700 with uprated internals too, from the company Mr.Vanos.
Fixed my M3 Evo a treat.

New bushes and suspension will put you back around £1200ish, on an Evo, and is an essential fix.

Inspection 2 services are around £450-700 as they include valve shim measurement.

PilotSports are around £180 a corner.

Not cheap to run, but good M3s do shift!
To be fair, even on none Ms similar jobs will cost about the same, OK you can get away with cheaper tyres, inspection 2s are still pricey (and the 2s can be done at home on an M3 for not too much if you are handy enough)

Full bushes and suspension on a non M will still run close to a grand etc.

Compared to a 323/328 sport they arent a huge amount more!

Worth it though.

stuttgartmetal

8,108 posts

216 months

Friday 8th April 2011
quotequote all
Tango13 said:
.

An e39 M5 for £7k is a bargain until you need a new clutch which will cost circa £1200 parts and labour or an oil change, £100 for oil and filter plus labour.
peanuts compared to anything pork.

SeiW500

247 posts

168 months

Friday 8th April 2011
quotequote all
Andrew Askey of Manchester-based independent BMW specialists BMTEC.

He's a top bloke, he used to service my 330d Msport & X5 & will be seeing my new 330d Msport Touring when it lands!
I liked the bit about "while we were talking to Andrew about the E36 M3 he suggested that you might want to look for a later 330 diesel instead."
Especially when you can get them chipped up to 280bhp!

farrendahl

1,248 posts

174 months

Friday 8th April 2011
quotequote all
This is the part where I get shunned by everybody for being crazy or mentally unstable but, the M's have never done anything for me frown I can appreciate the appeal but it's not something that gets my juices flowing if you know what I mean.

EDLT

15,421 posts

206 months

Friday 8th April 2011
quotequote all
Tango13 said:
An e39 M5 for £7k is a bargain until you need a new clutch which will cost circa £1200 parts and labour or an oil change, £100 for oil and filter plus labour.
The prices may have come down recently, but a Clutch + Dual Mass Failwheel for a 320d was nearly £1000 in parts when I did one a few years ago.

Rawwr

22,722 posts

234 months

Friday 8th April 2011
quotequote all
I don't know why but I've always considered the E39 M5 to be one of the defining M cars. It just all seems so perfect.

joesnow

1,533 posts

227 months

Friday 8th April 2011
quotequote all
farrendahl, each to their own.

I think the appeal is down to powerful engines in a car that is a good all rounder, backed up with motorsporty history and usually solid build quality.

Thats why I like mine anyway.

markh450

85 posts

211 months

Friday 8th April 2011
quotequote all
I think saying a 330d may be a better choice due to its performance being equal to an E36 M3 is missing the point a bit.

Whilst I won't deny that modern diesels can more than keep pace with M cars (for example i'm sure our chipped 335d is quicker in a stright line than my old E46 M3) M cars are all about the driving experiance and drama, two things a diesel lacks in many areas.

I would imagine an s320cdi merc would be quicker pretty much everyhere in a straight line compared with a Mk2 Golf GTi for example, however I know which one I'd rather be driving on a twisty country road! (I also know which one I'd rather drive or should I say park! on the M1 on a friday afternoon!!)

M sport diesels = fantastic compromise between performance and genuine daily usability and economy.

M cars = genuinely focussed drivers machines with the uncanny ability to imitate a sensible everyday exec car when required and at a cost.

Bolognese

1,500 posts

224 months

Friday 8th April 2011
quotequote all
My e36 M3 has been fantastic the last 3 or so years. Very strong engines (mines the 3.0) have replaced the suspension and a few other bits but they dont really depreciate anymore so not that much money loss. It's for sale now... Want to have a go with an e46 M3 biggrin

markh450

85 posts

211 months

Friday 8th April 2011
quotequote all
Bolognese said:
My e36 M3 has been fantastic the last 3 or so years. Very strong engines (mines the 3.0) have replaced the suspension and a few other bits but they dont really depreciate anymore so not that much money loss. It's for sale now... Want to have a go with an e46 M3 biggrin
you won't regret it!

bmthnick1981

5,310 posts

216 months

Friday 8th April 2011
quotequote all
That Black M3 at Heathrow high performance has been for sale forever. With numerous price drops too. I thought it was now up at £3,000 or £3,500 on ebay actually.

Anyone else think there may be a reason it hasnt sold?.......

Asterix

24,438 posts

228 months

Friday 8th April 2011
quotequote all
E39 M5 - still one of my all time favourite cars.

billzeebub

3,864 posts

199 months

Friday 8th April 2011
quotequote all
loved the E36 M3 that I owned for a couple of years. However I just found the servicing and upkeep costs too prohibitive and have recently traded it and bought an E36 323 Convertible with a high spec and in immaculate condition. This car delivers a great many of the thrills without the eye watering cost of keeping the M3 fettled. The problem with the low prices is that a lot of people without the disposable income to maintain them are getting into them for a year or two and not doing the required routine maintenance properly..which will only make the car more expensive for subsequent owners, and so on..

the trick is to buy private, low owners, stack of history, original spec and hopefully from a profesional person with a big, well maintained house..you know the sort of person that makes you want to hand over the cash straight away..but these type of owners are rare with the older motors..there is a lot of tat out there very cheap, but it would probably be cheaper medium term to buy one from a BMW Dealer under warranty than a 3 grander on auction site with 12 owners!!

angusc43

11,473 posts

208 months

Friday 8th April 2011
quotequote all
Rawwr said:
I don't know why but I've always considered the E39 M5 to be one of the defining M cars. It just all seems so perfect.
Yeah I agree. Pre-Bangle, therefore very handsome. And subtle - the rims, exhaust tips and minimal body kit set it off perfectly

And I prefer the concept of a grunty, torquey V8 as opposed to the much revvier V10.

It just does it for me. If there had been a tourer it would have been on my shopping list.

vescaegg

25,526 posts

167 months

Friday 8th April 2011
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I wish I was brave enough to buy a three and a half grand m3

CRACKIE

6,386 posts

242 months

Friday 8th April 2011
quotequote all
E36 M3 pricing is borderline robbery at the moment.

OEM Brake discs are expensive on E36 M3s but most of the known issues, which were costly via main dealers, have low cost fixes now( Vanos, exhaust flexijoints etc ).
Find a low mileage one or one which isn't on tired original shocks and they're still great to drive; quick, forgiving and fun. My EVO is much more fun to have a blast in than the 335i I bought late last year. You really feel part of driving an E36 whereas the E92 335i is a bit too remote and 'Playstation' if you know what I mean.