RE: Hot Mugen Honda CR-Z Spec Revealed

RE: Hot Mugen Honda CR-Z Spec Revealed

Thursday 21st April 2011

Hot Mugen Honda CR-Z Spec Revealed

198bhp courtesy of supercharging for Mugen-Honda hybrid coupe



Honda tuner Mugen is set to finally deliver a properly hot version of the CR-Z hybrid coupe at the Goodwood Festival of Speed in July - and it has today revealed that the new car will be supercharged.

The tuned version of the hybrid coupe is expected to produce around 198bhp (Civic Type R levels), and 181lb ft of torque (significantly more than Civic Type R levels). The car retains the Honda IMA electric motor and the original 1.5-litre i-VTEC petrol engine, which has been rebuilt to Mugen spec by Northamptonshire-based Mugen Euro with bespoke upgraded and strengthened internal components.

"The idea was to use the significant advantage of the early torque provided by the Honda IMA electric motor, then increase the torque available from the petrol engine gradually, to first maintain and then increase this," says Colin Whittamore from Mugen Euro. "A supercharger and complementary electronics allow us to very neatly map the IMA to the extra power and torque of the engine in a unique package, giving a smooth, integrated and powerful driving experience."

Plenty of work has also gone on with the Chassis and body, too: there are five-step adjustable dampers fitted front and rear, an increase in track width and a large reduction in overall weight, as well as bigger brake discs and four-pot monobloc calipers.



 

 

Author
Discussion

Hellbound

Original Poster:

2,500 posts

175 months

Thursday 21st April 2011
quotequote all
All that work and kit...for such 'average' power levels (ok, good for a 1.5 but it's supercharged AND has an electric motor). Where are Mugen's fuel consumption figures to justify the electric motor in the first place?

On the positive side, erm...good effort considering what they started with. If this ever made production, it would probably be north of £35k and they'll sell 8, in Europe.

Edited by Hellbound on Thursday 21st April 15:46

MSportUK

133 posts

240 months

Thursday 21st April 2011
quotequote all
I like it. I'd consider one if it was under 20 grand, so I expect it'll be 45.

LuS1fer

41,086 posts

244 months

Thursday 21st April 2011
quotequote all
Oh god, here we go...hybrid rants.
I wouldn't want one - seems self-defeating to me.

george h

14,706 posts

163 months

Thursday 21st April 2011
quotequote all
If they left the exterior of it alone then it would be quite a nice car, but that black bonnet on white paintwork just looks utterly ridiculous.

glazbagun

14,259 posts

196 months

Thursday 21st April 2011
quotequote all
Surely a better idea would be to use the torque from the electric motor to allow you to get to high-revving madness? WHat's the rear suspension setup on a standard CR-Z, out of curiosity?

MarJay

2,173 posts

174 months

Thursday 21st April 2011
quotequote all
Its still a FWD Hybrid. It is stretching the bounds of credulity to call this a PH car, even in Mugen spec.

Now, that Toyota RWD coupe. If we could have that with a 200bhp engine.... yes please!

anonymous-user

53 months

Thursday 21st April 2011
quotequote all
wiki quote

''The system delivers a combined peak output of 122 bhp (91 kW) at 6000 rpm and 128 lb·ft (174 N·m) at 1000 to 1500 rpm (123 lb·ft (167 N·m) on CVT-equipped models). The gasoline motor itself contributes only 111 bhp (83 kW) at 6000 rpm and 106 lb·ft (144 N·m) at 4800 rpm. An early road test of a Japanese-market CR-Z resulted in 0-60 in 10.5 seconds and the quarter mile in 17.6 seconds.[20] Inside Line performed the same 0-60 test in 8.8 seconds, and Motor Trend, in 8.3 seconds.[citation needed]''

so the electric motor provides 11 bhp and 22 ib torque..

just doesn't seem worth it, get rid of that and just supercharge it..

stock at around 8.5 seconds 0-60 sounds good so should be around 6.5 mark now..


Hellbound

Original Poster:

2,500 posts

175 months

Thursday 21st April 2011
quotequote all
MarJay said:
Its still a FWD Hybrid. It is stretching the bounds of credulity to call this a PH car, even in Mugen spec.

Now, that Toyota RWD coupe. If we could have that with a 200bhp engine.... yes please!
TRD will probably add some tasty goodies to that mid-way into the models life cycle. Far more appealing prospect.

And then we have STI with Subaru's version.

Sort of feeling sorry for the Mugen boys now. No NSX...no S2000.

XitUp

7,690 posts

203 months

Thursday 21st April 2011
quotequote all
glazbagun said:
Surely a better idea would be to use the torque from the electric motor to allow you to get to high-revving madness? WHat's the rear suspension setup on a standard CR-Z, out of curiosity?
I'd agree with that.


People moaning about it being a hybrid need to stop being so boring.

People moaning about it being FWD need to remember it's a Honda. They mainly do FWD cars. And lots of them have been very good.

anonymous-user

53 months

Thursday 21st April 2011
quotequote all
XitUp said:
I'd agree with that.


People moaning about it being a hybrid need to stop being so boring.
.
Hybrids that adds 11 bhp and 22 torques, is it really worth it in this case for a 'sports car'..I think it is more brand marketing over actual technology, that maybe people like you, lap up , like cats to cream..

Surprised it isn't called the iCR-Z mugan

Edited by black pipebandit on Thursday 21st April 16:13

TommyBuoy

1,269 posts

166 months

Thursday 21st April 2011
quotequote all
The thing that strikes me with 'Hybrid - Tuning' is that it's just internal combustion tuning.

Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of a beefed up motor with the aid of the electric motors (although they seem pretty tame), but when tuning a hybrid I would have liked to see more powerful motors and better recharge rates and other things I don;t know about being fettled with to give a rounded performace gain.

Seems to be missing a trick.

hornetrider

63,161 posts

204 months

Thursday 21st April 2011
quotequote all
MSportUK said:
I like it. I'd consider one if it was under 20 grand, so I expect it'll be 45.
yes

I'd say with those levels of power it will be a decent performer, but with Mugen tax lord knows how much the sticker price will be. Look how much the Mugen TypeRs were.

rhinochopig

17,932 posts

197 months

Thursday 21st April 2011
quotequote all
Who did Mugen Euro used to be or are they a start-up?

Hellbound

Original Poster:

2,500 posts

175 months

Thursday 21st April 2011
quotequote all
doogz said:
black pipebandit said:
XitUp said:
I'd agree with that.


People moaning about it being a hybrid need to stop being so boring.
.
Hybrids that adds 11 bhp and 22 torques, is it really worth it in this case for a 'sports car'..I think it is more brand marketing over actual technology, that maybe people like you, lap up , like cats to cream..

Surprised it isn't called the iCR-Z mugan

Edited by black pipebandit on Thursday 21st April 16:13
Is it worth it? Depends really, on what you use your car for. If you don't like paying road tax, paying the congestion charge, and like getting plenty of miles to the gallon, whilst still driving something that looks pretty good, is pretty fun to drive, and where the hybrid drive doesn't really have any adverse affects on the cars performance, then yeah, it probably is.
I'd agree with most of what you're saying (apart from the mpg - which remains unknown), however it all depends on the RRP IF it goes into production. With so many manufacturers readying their hybrid vehicles, this car, as new and at a suspected high sticker price, is not going to have a long shelf life.

havoc

29,929 posts

234 months

Thursday 21st April 2011
quotequote all
As an aside saw someone commuting in the original Insight today. He was slipstreaming an HGV...and probably getting 100mpg!

...and I genuinely fail to see how the CR-Z is an improvement on that original car in any way.



This new one is a good idea for someone who's more bothered about fuel consumption than depreciation ( laughrofl )...and could actually be moderately entertaining. But in a way it's even more pointless - real-world economy won't be that great and the handling/packaging are already compromised by the motors and batteries...

NoelWatson

11,710 posts

241 months

Thursday 21st April 2011
quotequote all
hornetrider said:
Look how much the Mugen TypeRs were.
Could almost justify it after hearing that engine.

XitUp

7,690 posts

203 months

Thursday 21st April 2011
quotequote all
black pipebandit said:
Hybrids that adds 11 bhp and 22 torques, is it really worth it in this case for a 'sports car'..I think it is more brand marketing over actual technology, that maybe people like you, lap up , like cats to cream..

Surprised it isn't called the iCR-Z mugan
1. It's not a sports car, it's a hatch back.
2. It's a 14hp motor, not 11, 58lbft, not 22. And having that means that it's in a lower tax bracket/uses less fuel without being a stinky diesel.

TommyBuoy said:
The thing that strikes me with 'Hybrid - Tuning' is that it's just internal combustion tuning.

Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of a beefed up motor with the aid of the electric motors (although they seem pretty tame), but when tuning a hybrid I would have liked to see more powerful motors and better recharge rates and other things I don;t know about being fettled with to give a rounded performace gain.

Seems to be missing a trick.
I'd agree with this too, and I think it's probably something we'll see in the near future.

anonymous-user

53 months

Thursday 21st April 2011
quotequote all
XitUp said:
I'd agree with this too, and I think it's probably something we'll see in the near future.
think think you need to check your stats..

honda market it as a 'sport hybrid coupe'


I think they should have supercharged it from the start..


JonnyVTEC

3,001 posts

174 months

Thursday 21st April 2011
quotequote all
black pipebandit said:
wiki quote

''The system delivers a combined peak output of 122 bhp (91 kW) at 6000 rpm and 128 lb·ft (174 N·m) at 1000 to 1500 rpm (123 lb·ft (167 N·m) on CVT-equipped models). The gasoline motor itself contributes only 111 bhp (83 kW) at 6000 rpm and 106 lb·ft (144 N·m) at 4800 rpm. An early road test of a Japanese-market CR-Z resulted in 0-60 in 10.5 seconds and the quarter mile in 17.6 seconds.[20] Inside Line performed the same 0-60 test in 8.8 seconds, and Motor Trend, in 8.3 seconds.[citation needed]''

so the electric motor provides 11 bhp and 22 ib torque..
No it adds more, particularly the torque. Just that the peak combined is gives that figure.



Look at where that peak torque is!

Edited by JonnyVTEC on Thursday 21st April 16:51

JonnyVTEC

3,001 posts

174 months

Thursday 21st April 2011
quotequote all
havoc said:
As an aside saw someone commuting in the original Insight today. He was slipstreaming an HGV...and probably getting 100mpg!

...and I genuinely fail to see how the CR-Z is an improvement on that original car in any way.



This new one is a good idea for someone who's more bothered about fuel consumption than depreciation ( laughrofl )...and could actually be moderately entertaining. But in a way it's even more pointless - real-world economy won't be that great and the handling/packaging are already compromised by the motors and batteries...
Silver one on the M40 by any chance?

I think his best on a summers day for that commute is 127mpg.

Handling? the roll centre is 15mm lower than the Civic Type R, IMA adds around 56kg.

I think the improvement comes from the fact selling a CRZ makes Honda money unlike the G1 Insight.

After driving one I think the real compromise has come from poor packaging, the battery is neat and displaces a spare wheel- no issues there. Same power as the Insight 1, more torque yet the battery is smaller and lighter. The real issuse comes from the tiny row 2 leg room whilst offering a massive boot. Im sure they could have played tunes there to make the idea of even kids in the back a possibility.



Edited by JonnyVTEC on Thursday 21st April 16:54