Discussion
kambites said:
A spoilers job is to sheer the air at the back of the car to stop a laminar flow sticking to the "falling" surfaces of the car, causing lift and drag.
A wing's job is to sit in clean air and provide downforce via an inverted aerofoil.
Yep.A wing's job is to sit in clean air and provide downforce via an inverted aerofoil.
That Rover appears to have both a spoiler and a wing.
The E36 has to have a spoiler because of the high level brake light. During the production of the E36, the european union introduced a rule on compulsory high level brake lights on all new cars. BMW couldn't fit one in the back window for some reason, so they fitted it to a spoiler instead. Hence all E36 BMW's after a certain year have a spoiler.
I'm not sure on the strict legality of driving without a high level brake light when one was originally fitted... I assume its OK but it might technically break construction and use regs...
I'm not sure on the strict legality of driving without a high level brake light when one was originally fitted... I assume its OK but it might technically break construction and use regs...
The Zs looks like Mg have got a Rover 45 covered in glue and driven it through Halfords with a big magnet inside. Saying that, I do like the look of it and would go for the model with the spoiler and gills 
The only people that would look down on your are PHers. And young attractive girls ain't PHers.
The only people that would look down on your are PHers. And young attractive girls ain't PHers.
kambites said:
The RX-7 is one that I definitely do prefer without the spoiler, although again that one you've posted a picture of is a bad example because it's too low. I think the spoiler ruins an otherwise beautiful car.
I think that Rx-7 looks great. Would probs look good with a spoiler too.StottyZr said:
kambites said:
The RX-7 is one that I definitely do prefer without the spoiler, although again that one you've posted a picture of is a bad example because it's too low. I think the spoiler ruins an otherwise beautiful car.
I think that Rx-7 looks great. Would probs look good with a spoiler too.
It's got stretched tyres, for Christ's sake!
MarJay said:
The E36 has to have a spoiler because of the high level brake light. During the production of the E36, the european union introduced a rule on compulsory high level brake lights on all new cars. BMW couldn't fit one in the back window for some reason, so they fitted it to a spoiler instead. Hence all E36 BMW's after a certain year have a spoiler.
I'm not sure on the strict legality of driving without a high level brake light when one was originally fitted... I assume its OK but it might technically break construction and use regs...
The BMW e36 has a third brake light in the middle at the bottom of the rear window,I'm not sure on the strict legality of driving without a high level brake light when one was originally fitted... I assume its OK but it might technically break construction and use regs...
It only needed the brake light on the spoiler if a spoiler was fitted because it would be obscuring the third brake light in the window.
The convertible e36 has the third brake light mounted in the boot lid above the rear BMW badge.
So it's quite legal to run an e36 coupe without the spoiler if you wanted, i changed my M3 spoiler with third brake light for a carbon fibre M3 LTW spoiler without brake light and passes the test no problems, never had any hassle of plod for it either.
freakynessless said:
Hmmm, white MR2 without a spoiler kind of reminds me of a bar of soap.
Beat me to it! 
How about the MG ZT? The spoiler really ruins it in my opinion.
It seems the facelifted ZT loses the spoiler on most occasions, where it is rare to find one without a spoiler in prefacelift models
MarJay said:
The E36 has to have a spoiler because of the high level brake light. During the production of the E36, the european union introduced a rule on compulsory high level brake lights on all new cars. BMW couldn't fit one in the back window for some reason, so they fitted it to a spoiler instead. Hence all E36 BMW's after a certain year have a spoiler.
I'm not sure on the strict legality of driving without a high level brake light when one was originally fitted... I assume its OK but it might technically break construction and use regs...
Uh huh... What's that in this here picture? Why, it's a high level brake light and not a wing to be seen... I'm not sure on the strict legality of driving without a high level brake light when one was originally fitted... I assume its OK but it might technically break construction and use regs...
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The 3 door Sierra Cosworth is a good example of a functional aero package, as it makes 40Nm of downforce at 80mph as opposed to the standard car making 150Nm of LIFT!!
As is the Escort Cosworth, which was the first production car to produce front & rear negative lift. Above 100mph, you really can feel the aero package working, and regarding the balance issue, driving the car without the front air dam/ splitter makes the car very light on the front end.
As is the Escort Cosworth, which was the first production car to produce front & rear negative lift. Above 100mph, you really can feel the aero package working, and regarding the balance issue, driving the car without the front air dam/ splitter makes the car very light on the front end.
Mr Dave said:
wildoliver said:
STW2010 said:
I think the grill behind the front wheels on that MG looks worse than the spoiler.
Don't be silly that grill is to feed the twin turbos. And you need the spoiler so the rear driven wheels can get traction!On a side note my big gripe with some manufacturers is the liberal flinging of spoilers at cars backsides with no thought to high speed balance. Porsche famously in the 80s sold 911s with a sport package including front and rear spoilers, you couldn't have the rear spoiler without the front to counteract front end lift at speed.
My Audi has the sport package from the factory, which along with a load of brake and suspension upgrades includes a fantastic hollow alloy spoiler (I'm a bloke the thought of hollow alloy does it for me) yet get over 125-130mph and the front end starts to float. Doesn't happen on the standard car without spoiler.
I'm not daft I realise exactly what a spoiler does, it provides a wealth of benefits including smoothing the airflow and reducing drag (if designed properly) and increasing downforce (again if designed properly) nothing to do with the driven wheels at all. Hence my comment about the balance of spoilers on properly designed cars.
Of course most spoilers are purely aesthetic and either not designed to offer any real downforce and most likely increase drag. I once had to set a friends RX7 up which was handling poorly at speed and found he had fitted a Halfords special which was actually set to give lift at speed. I'm no fan of aero aids on cars unless they are a well thought out package.
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