Do I need a compo face?

Author
Discussion

gshughes

1,306 posts

270 months

Thursday 2nd May 2024
quotequote all
Had a similar but less serious incident myself some time ago, my wife and I were shopping with my then 4 and 2 year old (teenagers now) in Booths (posh northern Waitrose equivalent supermarket).

The two year old started wailing because he had somehow managed to get a cable tie around his neck - no doubt due to our inattention. In a mild state of panic, as efforts to get it off caused it to tighten, we hailed a nearby employee who rushed off to get some scissors which did the job in quickly removing it.

A little later the manager came to us very apologetic with a £50 voucher - we felt slightly fraudulent accepting it as the incident was clearly our fault, but nonetheless had some nice wine later that evening!

Lo-Fi

996 posts

85 months

Thursday 2nd May 2024
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richhead said:
fact is, you cant wrap kids in bubble rap 24-7 , things happen, all you can hope is that they arent bad. think back to what you did as a kid.
but we do need to stop this compo culture where someone is always at fault, the people paying for it is us, it has to stop, people need to take responsibility for their actions.
Hip-pop

irc

8,873 posts

151 months

Thursday 2nd May 2024
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Sorry if I missed it having skipped a few pages but should the high chair not be positioned so that the table is out of reach? It only has to be close to a parent's chair not the table.

While I am sorry for anyone being injured if the tray was placed in the middle of the table while there was a parent present to look after each child I think the store staff did nothing wrong.

SmoothCriminal

5,457 posts

214 months

Thursday 2nd May 2024
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This is pure deflection just like you see everywhere in modern life.

The op fails as a parent yet it's someone else's problem.

Hope your child recovers and doesn't have lasting injuries.

Durzel

12,745 posts

183 months

Thursday 2nd May 2024
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Was sympathetic until I read the bit about speculatively trying for ~£10k to add to the little one’s ISA. Because why not I guess?

BertBert

20,327 posts

226 months

Thursday 2nd May 2024
quotequote all
Lo-Fi said:
richhead said:
fact is, you cant wrap kids in bubble rap 24-7 , things happen, all you can hope is that they arent bad. think back to what you did as a kid.
but we do need to stop this compo culture where someone is always at fault, the people paying for it is us, it has to stop, people need to take responsibility for their actions.
Hip-pop
hip-hop?

Sebring440

2,718 posts

111 months

Thursday 2nd May 2024
quotequote all
gshughes said:
Had a similar but less serious incident myself some time ago, my wife and I were shopping with my then 4 and 2 year old (teenagers now) in Booths (posh northern Waitrose equivalent supermarket).

The two year old started wailing because he had somehow managed to get a cable tie around his neck - no doubt due to our inattention. In a mild state of panic, as efforts to get it off caused it to tighten, we hailed a nearby employee who rushed off to get some scissors which did the job in quickly removing it.

A little later the manager came to us very apologetic with a £50 voucher - we felt slightly fraudulent accepting it as the incident was clearly our fault, but nonetheless had some nice wine later that evening!
gshughes said:
he had somehow managed to get a cable tie around his neck
Please explain how that could possibly happen?

hidetheelephants

30,158 posts

208 months

Thursday 2nd May 2024
quotequote all
Probably in the same way as a small number of kids garrote themselves with blind and curtain pull cords or otherwise kill themselves with innocuous domestic items or in the good old bad old days drown in stagnant water or suffocate in abandoned fridges; they're kids and they muck about, if there's something dangerous they'll gravitate toward it like bees to nectar or tiny imps of the perverse.

GasEngineer

1,435 posts

77 months

Friday 3rd May 2024
quotequote all
BertBert said:
Lo-Fi said:
richhead said:
fact is, you cant wrap kids in bubble rap 24-7 , things happen, all you can hope is that they arent bad. think back to what you did as a kid.
but we do need to stop this compo culture where someone is always at fault, the people paying for it is us, it has to stop, people need to take responsibility for their actions.
Hip-pop
hip-hop?
Parrot for Bert please.

gshughes

1,306 posts

270 months

Friday 3rd May 2024
quotequote all
Sebring440 said:
Please explain how that could possibly happen?
Not entirely sure, as I said we didn't have our eyes on him for a few seconds, but I presume he picked up a discarded cable tie from the floor and somehow managed to get it fastened through trial and error - juts bad luck it worked.

BertBert

20,327 posts

226 months

Friday 3rd May 2024
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GasEngineer said:
Parrot for Bert please.
Much appreciated biggrin

MightyBadger

2,960 posts

65 months

Friday 3rd May 2024
quotequote all
Lo-Fi said:
Hip-pop
Very good biglaugh

TGCOTF-dewey

6,493 posts

70 months

Friday 3rd May 2024
quotequote all
BertBert said:
GasEngineer said:
Parrot for Bert please.
Much appreciated biggrin
Have a Griffi

https://youtu.be/n8pMJuEIOd8?si=21LqkKqFbclgWDEt



timetex

685 posts

163 months

Friday 3rd May 2024
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vaud said:
Reading back I think I agree with you OP on the RIDDOR report

"or, when any person other than an employee suffers: An injury as a result of an accident at work and that person has to be taken to hospital;"

Non-fatal accidents to people other than workers
Accidents to members of the public or others who are not at work (such as customers or volunteers) must be reported if: ( I'm not sure if all of these conditions have to be met or if it is "or"):

  • they involve work activity
  • they result in an injury
  • the person is taken directly from the scene of the accident to hospital for treatment to that injury
Examinations and diagnostic tests, such as X-rays, do not count as 'treatment'. However, you must report treatment that involves the person having:

  • a dressing applied
  • stitches
  • a plaster cast
  • surgery
You could ask the HSE here

If nothing else the Morrisons might get some staff training improvements.
Just to raise a pedantic point - if each of those bullets has to be satisfied (i.e. it is an 'and' not an 'or') - and that's how it reads to me - then I'm not entirely convinced that the first bullet point is satisfied.

The OP's timeline is a little hazy (deliberately so?) as it really doesn't give any indication as to how much time passed between the staff member putting down the tea (in the space cleared for that purpose by the OP), the OP's wife getting distracted by putting the books away, the staff member leaving (assuming they did walk away?) and the child hooking the tea-pot and scalding themselves.

On a slight tangent for a second - wouldn't you usually consider waiting staff bringing something to your table somewhat of a 'transition'? They have a job to do, but so do you. Kids or not. If someone's bringing me my Sunday Roast, I'll be looking down at my part of the table to check their path is clear. If they're bringing a tray of drinks, you'd be ready to say "mine" when they call out your drink. That sort of thing. It is (or should be, in polite circles) an interaction. You don't take that opportunity to ignore the waiting staff, do your own thing, and make it entirely their responsibility. Do you?

Back to my point, though... Although there's probably no 'defining moment', there is a point at which the waitress' role in bringing the tea to the table was 'complete'. A point at which, even if she'd not quite put them in the optimal spot, the act of bringing them and putting them in front of the parents transferred total responsibility to them. Certainly in the absence of either parent giving explicit instructions as to where the tea should be placed, or taking the opportunity to say 'No, not there you effing idiot!" when she placed them (not unreasonably) in the middle of the table, there's a strong sense in my mind that the waitress' role was 'complete', Especially if she'd then moved away and more time had elapsed.

In other words, if the OP or his wife didn't take any care to give the waitress specific direction; didn't take any responsibility for providing guidance or explicitly disagree with the waitress' choice of position, and she sets down the tea and walks off, what may or may not happen next is 100% the parents' responsibility.

Fact is, the OP saw the waitress coming and made an unconscious (or possibly conscious) decision to not interact with her, and to focus on his son instead. He didn't check to see if his wife was taking charge, or able to interact with the waitress. They both left 100% of the decision-making to her purely by deciding not to be helpful, or be part of that 'transition' process that happens when someone brings you something.

It is no wonder they blame her in hindsight.

For me, the primary issue isn't that they blame the waitress - it is that they couldn't even be bothered to help her complete her task in the first place. Absenting yourself from that interaction usually only has rudeness as a consequence - but this time it was so much worse. I feel sorry for the girl and hope she recovers.

OP - as a human being, if you chose to silently pass all responsibility to the waitress without any other communication, aside from moving a few books around, then shame on you. That's not how to interact with someone who is bringing you something.

Back to my point about the first bullet. If the waitress has put the tea down and has gone, it is no longer a 'work activity'. The tea is now the responsibility of the parents, who are not paying proper attention to what is going on around them.

thisnameistaken

231 posts

43 months

Friday 3rd May 2024
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Hondashark said:
Thankfully solicitors are of a different opinion to the bellends blaming us.
Our daughter was in a position of safety and while we were distracted someone put her in danger.
That is fully blameable and rightly deserving of compensation. The issue is proving it when you have no CCTV evidence.
I'm really sorry you're going through this. I can't comprehend how bad it must be for you all and I hope you and your wife find some peace with it and your little one makes a full recovery.

The issue with these scenarios in my experience is that it's understandably very emotionally involved, especially so when there's the inevitable guilt associated with your child being injured when you were looking after them. Unfortunately though the law rarely takes account of emotion and advise should be accordingly pragmatic. That can feel like a real kick in the nuts when you're caught up in the emotion as it's far easier to try to absolve yourself of blame if it was someone else's fault. It's really important to note that that's not directed at you or your wife. Accidents do happen and in a better place we'd possibly prevent them but life doesn't work like that.

From a standpoint of apportioning blame, you can't claim you were distracted. You'd be distracted if you had a sneezing fit or swarm of bees came towards you. You just chose to do something else at the time the drinks were brought to your table instead of ensuring they were in a part of the table that'd pose less risk. That's not a distraction, that's a choice. Certainly one made from a position of simply not thinking of the repercussions and in hindsight you'd do differently but a choice all the same. It then becomes very difficult to blame the serving staff for placing the drinks too close to your child when you were also seemingly so unaware of the danger that you also didn't make it your priority either.

I don't see you have the basis for a successful claim here for a number of reasons and I'm sorry again you're going through this. I understand this sort of pragmatic advice isn't necessarily what you hoped for but in my opinion you should put the effort into dealing with, and processing the event with your wife. Your wife having counselling is a good move and it might really help her if you attend with her to understand where she is struggling. Another thing to note from a pragmatic POV is; even if you could successfully say the server was fully to blame and went through the proceedings and eventually won, there's little solace to be had from the fact you say someone else was to blame when you still could have prevented it in the first place. Even if you win, you'll still need to process that.

Jag_NE

3,201 posts

115 months

Friday 3rd May 2024
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The OP was an awful read and it took a massive nose dive when the 10k got mentioned.
Staggered that he thought airing this in public would be well received.

Mont Blanc

1,992 posts

58 months

Friday 3rd May 2024
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So many people in this thread are determined to be utterly binary, and as I suggested in my earlier post, the world is a sliding scale of responsibility and everyone has a duty of care towards everyone else.

Are the parents ultimately responsible since they were present and overseeing? Yes, of course.

Do other people have a duty of care towards around kids, and considering the dangers to children? Yes, of course.

Both of those are statements are true.

As I mentioned, I’ve been in countless restaurants where the server has deliberately placed anything hot, sharp, or dangerous well out of arms reach of a child and even notified the parents of the danger by saying “I will put this hot plate over here away from the child”.

Which is IMO a basic duty of care towards a child, any child, that I would expect from anyone.

The same as if I see a parent walking along the pavement with a young toddler I lift off the throttle and hover over the brake pedal just incase the toddler makes a break for it, as they sometimes do.

I have a duty of care towards other peoples kids whilst operating a motor vehicle.

Would anyone in this thread seriously claim they would place cutlery/knife or boiling water within reach of a toddler?

I still don’t think the OP has a case for ‘compo’ but I’m merely saying that anyone who doesn’t think they have a duty of care towards other humans is being dreadfully binary.

JackJarvis

3,060 posts

149 months

Friday 3rd May 2024
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There are two types of parent in this situation ;

1) The ones who feel extremely guilty for not taking proper care of their child, they feel terrible about it but learn from the experience and focus their attention on their child. It wouldn't even enter their thought process to start blaming other people. In fact, they'd probably look to thank the 5 staff members who very kindly assisted.

2)

OP said:
I think the going rate for a leg burn is about £10k
Depressing thread, but sadly not surprising.

theplayingmantis

5,027 posts

97 months

Friday 3rd May 2024
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Mont Blanc said:
So many people in this thread are determined to be utterly binary, and as I suggested in my earlier post, the world is a sliding scale of responsibility and everyone has a duty of care towards everyone else.

Are the parents ultimately responsible since they were present and overseeing? Yes, of course.

Do other people have a duty of care towards around kids, and considering the dangers to children? Yes, of course.

Both of those are statements are true.

As I mentioned, I’ve been in countless restaurants where the server has deliberately placed anything hot, sharp, or dangerous well out of arms reach of a child and even notified the parents of the danger by saying “I will put this hot plate over here away from the child”.

Which is IMO a basic duty of care towards a child, any child, that I would expect from anyone.

The same as if I see a parent walking along the pavement with a young toddler I lift off the throttle and hover over the brake pedal just incase the toddler makes a break for it, as they sometimes do.

I have a duty of care towards other peoples kids whilst operating a motor vehicle.

Would anyone in this thread seriously claim they would place cutlery/knife or boiling water within reach of a toddler?

I still don’t think the OP has a case for ‘compo’ but I’m merely saying that anyone who doesn’t think they have a duty of care towards other humans is being dreadfully binary.
is the expectation of tea order not going to be hot. they placed it in the middle of the table as stated. placing it elsewhere would probably have been precarious. Should the server not have a reasonable expectation that the parents are paying attention, or that the toddler is attached to the chair as not to be able to lurch fwd and grab things, and that the parents are aware that tea is generally consumed hot. Unless we are in the US and its Ice tea. I fail to see why the server should state this is hot, well i should hope it is.

Of course people have a duty of care towards others and people are not being binary at all. its the extent of that duty that you differ with, however dreadful you think it is or not.

Anyway this thread is done to death, the obvious thing is not to eat in supermarket cafes, way to council for PH.

Again hope the girl makes a full recovery and the parents assuage their guilt and just accept its one of those crappy things that sometimes happens rather than hang themselves up over it or try to blame others where there is none. Of course assuming that is why they are blaming others and its not some greedy money grab...as inferred by the OP.

DP14

348 posts

54 months

Friday 3rd May 2024
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Mont Blanc said:
Do other people have a duty of care towards around kids, and considering the dangers to children? Yes, of course.
Yes, but the tray was placed in the middle of the table, as is normal for communal stuff, for patrons to then deal with themselves. If the server starts placing it offset then the dopey parents will knock it over while faffing about with their books and be here whining how the server was negligent, placing it near an edge, how they could see the parent was moving about and how do they get their compensayshun.