Importing a UK Kit Car into France
Discussion
Highly likely that the car was a Martin which is made in France and uses Mondeo V6 mechanicals. Replicas can be registered if you can prove that the car has been in production for 30 years. My XKSS now qualifies under that rule because Lynx started building replicas in 1975. A Catechism qualifies easily.
Powdernick1 said:
I see that towards the end of this Thread, it's gone a bit off topic, in a good way but still off. so maybe we can get it back on track.
Ive got a Caterham classic SE, 1.6 on a Q plate. Will i ever be able to get it registered here in France or am i doomed to travel back and fourth with it every year.
I tried this with an N plate Caterham. No go. No Certificat de Conformité. You definitely will not get a CdC for a Q plate so don't waste time trying. In this case the only way through is to do a "Conformité (Certificat?) de titre individu" IIRC, this is costly and difficult. Think £4k ish. There are ways of fiddling the timings, you start the process and do things v-e-r-y slowly from one year to the next. Not very legal, but possible.Ive got a Caterham classic SE, 1.6 on a Q plate. Will i ever be able to get it registered here in France or am i doomed to travel back and fourth with it every year.
Third one down here:
L'immatriculation peut être :
- soit directe en préfecture sans autres frais que ceux demandés pour l'établissement de la carte grise
- soit après une identification délivrée par une DRIRE ou par le constructeur ou son représentant
- soit après une réception à titre isolé réalisée par la DRIRE.
"Reception a titre isole", that's the phrase. It's a pig.
L'immatriculation peut être :
- soit directe en préfecture sans autres frais que ceux demandés pour l'établissement de la carte grise
- soit après une identification délivrée par une DRIRE ou par le constructeur ou son représentant
- soit après une réception à titre isolé réalisée par la DRIRE.
"Reception a titre isole", that's the phrase. It's a pig.
If you want to be a guinea pig, try DREAL (which is the new name of DRIRE for several years now).
With kit cars, just forget, you'll have to go through stress test for safety belts meaning you will need an extra chassis that will be teared off. Caterham is a bit in between, meaning that some models were officially registered, and with a partial CoC you can avoid this kind of tests.
With kit cars, just forget, you'll have to go through stress test for safety belts meaning you will need an extra chassis that will be teared off. Caterham is a bit in between, meaning that some models were officially registered, and with a partial CoC you can avoid this kind of tests.
Edited by Husker on Tuesday 13th September 16:46
Husker said:
If you want to be a guinea pig, try DREAL (which is the new name of DRIRE for several years now).
With kit cars, just forget, you'll have to go through stress test for safety belts meaning you will need an extra chassis that will be teared off. Caterham is a bit in between, meaning that some models were officially registered, and with a partial CoC you can avoid this kind of tests.
That's interesting! With kit cars, just forget, you'll have to go through stress test for safety belts meaning you will need an extra chassis that will be teared off. Caterham is a bit in between, meaning that some models were officially registered, and with a partial CoC you can avoid this kind of tests.
Edited by Husker on Tuesday 13th September 16:46
Do you know any way of finding out which models were entitled to this partial CoC? Make my day if 1996 1.6 K-series are on it and I can get an "attestation de conformite partielle" ..... the rest is relatively easy from there!
The 96 1.6 K was a factory build and kit model so I would imagine that the kit versions can go through "titre individuelle" as above based on the chassis being a known (and tested) quantity. Factory build models are dead easy as they are type approved. Some cars built in the factory are registered as kits however, which complicates matters.
Husker said:
That's completely false.
There were some news/rumors one or two years ago that FFVE (french equivalent of FIVA if I make no mistake) were trying to convince authorities to allow registration of what I will call "period-compliant replicas".
That just ended nowhere.
Husker, your statement "That's completely false" is wrong since what I stated was "my understanding".There were some news/rumors one or two years ago that FFVE (french equivalent of FIVA if I make no mistake) were trying to convince authorities to allow registration of what I will call "period-compliant replicas".
That just ended nowhere.
I'm more than happy to be corrected but please do it more accurately and politely!
Cheers
Philip
For all doubting Thomas' (but only those who speak French) go here:-
http://www.ffve.org/Procedure_obtention_attestatio...
This will show you exactly how to get your replica registered in France. You will need proof that the type of car has existed for over 30 years, that's all. One problem might be the contrôle technique since my local one demanded the EEC identification code which of course for my car doesn't exist. I have, however, seen over the years a few Lynx cars wearing French plates including a D-type and an XKSS. He said he couldn't do an MOT without it. I haven't pursued it because I've decided to sell the XKSS anyway. Sad, but when a car is Worth more than the house something had to give.
http://www.ffve.org/Procedure_obtention_attestatio...
This will show you exactly how to get your replica registered in France. You will need proof that the type of car has existed for over 30 years, that's all. One problem might be the contrôle technique since my local one demanded the EEC identification code which of course for my car doesn't exist. I have, however, seen over the years a few Lynx cars wearing French plates including a D-type and an XKSS. He said he couldn't do an MOT without it. I haven't pursued it because I've decided to sell the XKSS anyway. Sad, but when a car is Worth more than the house something had to give.
Hello, I've read this thread with interest. I understand the reference above to possibly registering a Ginetta (for example) because it's an older vehicle. Two questions please:
Is the 30 years a definitive figure? Does that roll-forward year by year, so 1986 now, 1987 next year etc? That would seem odd as by 2035 (say) you could register a 2005 car that is currently not acceptable.
More to the point though, I am looking at "one-off" replicas from the 70s and 80s. They are not a recognised make like Ginetta, but generally are registered on the V5 as (for example) a "Bugatti replica" made as a special (by Mike King Racing in that particular case). Would the French authorities accept that if you could demonstrate when and where it was constructed?
Many thanks for your thoughts.
Is the 30 years a definitive figure? Does that roll-forward year by year, so 1986 now, 1987 next year etc? That would seem odd as by 2035 (say) you could register a 2005 car that is currently not acceptable.
More to the point though, I am looking at "one-off" replicas from the 70s and 80s. They are not a recognised make like Ginetta, but generally are registered on the V5 as (for example) a "Bugatti replica" made as a special (by Mike King Racing in that particular case). Would the French authorities accept that if you could demonstrate when and where it was constructed?
Many thanks for your thoughts.
I believe the FFVE (Ancient Vehicles Federation in France) is quite strict, so not sure a replica would qualify unless it is of historic value/provenance, in fact their website suggests the vehicle needs to be "authentic" and that replicas need to go through the same approval process as vehicles that are less than 30 years old. They will attempt to verify conformity to the manufacturer's specifications at the time the vehicle was first released. So a car with a 30+ year old chassis bearing no resemblance with the original will not pass.
As far as I know the 30 year rule is a rolling one, if the vehicule is 30+ years on 1st January of the year you're applying for the paperwork, it's eligible.
This is what I have been able to glean from their website, I'm no expert and some may have succeeded where the procedure suggests it wouldn't work (this is France after all).
As far as I know the 30 year rule is a rolling one, if the vehicule is 30+ years on 1st January of the year you're applying for the paperwork, it's eligible.
This is what I have been able to glean from their website, I'm no expert and some may have succeeded where the procedure suggests it wouldn't work (this is France after all).
As far as kit cars are concerned, I can report that I have just been successful in getting my Pilgrim Sumo Cobra rep immetriculated after 2 years of trying !!!
Initially, I went directly to the main Prefecture and got rebuffed. So, with copies of the Carte Grise of previously registered cars, kindly provided by some French car owners, and a letter entitled "Certificate of Conformity" provided by Pilgrim, I sent them through the Sous Prefecture and was successful.
Now whether the CG copies helped or whether going through the post to the backroom staff, who have time to review all the info, I don't know.
Persistance can help
Initially, I went directly to the main Prefecture and got rebuffed. So, with copies of the Carte Grise of previously registered cars, kindly provided by some French car owners, and a letter entitled "Certificate of Conformity" provided by Pilgrim, I sent them through the Sous Prefecture and was successful.
Now whether the CG copies helped or whether going through the post to the backroom staff, who have time to review all the info, I don't know.
Persistance can help
As far as kit cars are concerned, I can report that I have just been successful in getting my Pilgrim Sumo Cobra rep immetriculated after 2 years of trying !!!
Initially, I went directly to the main Prefecture and got rebuffed. So, with copies of the Carte Grise of previously registered cars, kindly provided by some French car owners, and a letter entitled "Certificate of Conformity" provided by Pilgrim, I sent them through the Sous Prefecture and was successful.
Now whether the CG copies helped or whether going through the post to the backroom staff, who have time to review all the info, I don't know.
Persistance can help
Initially, I went directly to the main Prefecture and got rebuffed. So, with copies of the Carte Grise of previously registered cars, kindly provided by some French car owners, and a letter entitled "Certificate of Conformity" provided by Pilgrim, I sent them through the Sous Prefecture and was successful.
Now whether the CG copies helped or whether going through the post to the backroom staff, who have time to review all the info, I don't know.
Persistance can help
There's a Pilgrim here at Le Mans which has always been registered in France.I brought him back a windscreen last year because he would have had to make a special trip since they refuse to courier them because of the breakage risk.I spoke to the FFVA and they assured me that should I wish to register the XKSS in France there would be no problem given that Lynx made their first car in 1975. I have the proof of that and all the brochures with the print date on.
Apologies for resurrecting such an old thread but I keep having Dino 246 shaped thoughts, but I am never going to have 300,000€ to spend on a car, so I am thinking about building a De Havilland Dino.
I presume keeping it registered as an MG TF is out of the question (though it would be possible in the UK)
Having successfully registered my highly-modifed Vespa on a carte grise de collection, via FFVE by removing the fancy exhaust and anything that wasn't factory, and sending them photos of the rest, I'm wondering just how ridiculously naughty it would be to register a De Havilland as an actual Dino by sending them photos of a real one? Probably the guillotine, right?
I presume keeping it registered as an MG TF is out of the question (though it would be possible in the UK)
Having successfully registered my highly-modifed Vespa on a carte grise de collection, via FFVE by removing the fancy exhaust and anything that wasn't factory, and sending them photos of the rest, I'm wondering just how ridiculously naughty it would be to register a De Havilland as an actual Dino by sending them photos of a real one? Probably the guillotine, right?
The first thing that comes to mind would be the MOT you need to send in with application for your care grise de collection. My replica is over 30 years old (with the necessary proof) but since it is 1988 the emissions controls for 1988 applied too. That needed a very sympathetic MOT man! Then of course you will need to exchange the original "Ferrari V5" for your new French line. I think your dream will probably remain just that - a dream!
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