The 'Bladerunners' are right
Discussion
valiant said:
croyde said:
It's just a money grabber because if I was in charge and there was positive proof that a certain car was spewing child killing gas, I'd ban it on the spot, not think up daft ideas of making cash.
But as said before, it doesn’t actually raise a huge amount for TfL when compared to its total budget. £200m against over £9bn and then there’s the costs of running the scheme in itself.To say it’s a money grabber is not quite right. I mean, we all know where it’s going to end up eventually with road pricing but that’s a national issue to be decided at government level due to loss of fuel duty and using cameras for that simply won’t cut it as there’s too many holes in the network to make it fair and viable.
I get the argument about why not simply ban the most polluting cars (makes most sense) but then politics comes into play. He is a politician that wants to be re-elected so he doesn’t want to completely piss of great swathes of the electorate so he uses ‘nudges’ to get what his desired outcome by nudging certain owners of certain vehicles into changing their cars a bit earlier than they wanted. Yeah, he can then change the rules again but again he’ll nudge us into doing so by giving plenty of warning, charging and not banning and making it a bit more difficult to own a particular vehicle that you’ll change it.
munroman said:
valiant said:
croyde said:
It's just a money grabber because if I was in charge and there was positive proof that a certain car was spewing child killing gas, I'd ban it on the spot, not think up daft ideas of making cash.
But as said before, it doesn’t actually raise a huge amount for TfL when compared to its total budget. £200m against over £9bn and then there’s the costs of running the scheme in itself.To say it’s a money grabber is not quite right. I mean, we all know where it’s going to end up eventually with road pricing but that’s a national issue to be decided at government level due to loss of fuel duty and using cameras for that simply won’t cut it as there’s too many holes in the network to make it fair and viable.
I get the argument about why not simply ban the most polluting cars (makes most sense) but then politics comes into play. He is a politician that wants to be re-elected so he doesn’t want to completely piss of great swathes of the electorate so he uses ‘nudges’ to get what his desired outcome by nudging certain owners of certain vehicles into changing their cars a bit earlier than they wanted. Yeah, he can then change the rules again but again he’ll nudge us into doing so by giving plenty of warning, charging and not banning and making it a bit more difficult to own a particular vehicle that you’ll change it.
kwits who have problems with having a brown Muslim mayor and made threats.Panamax said:
ingenieur said:
From that to a situation where you create a little log file on Kahn's computer every time you leave your house is a bit too much.
Agreed, but that's the reality of UK today. The only people the system can't track are the ones who stick two two fingers up at any sort of society - in other words the ones who are the biggest concern.Meanwhile normal citizens leave an indelible trail of mobile phone signal, credit card transactions and number plate recognition.
Grumps. said:
Panamax said:
ingenieur said:
From that to a situation where you create a little log file on Kahn's computer every time you leave your house is a bit too much.
Agreed, but that's the reality of UK today. The only people the system can't track are the ones who stick two two fingers up at any sort of society - in other words the ones who are the biggest concern.Meanwhile normal citizens leave an indelible trail of mobile phone signal, credit card transactions and number plate recognition.
Pickle_Party_247 said:
Morons committing vandalism and wasting public money. Anyone kicking off about ULEZ charges is a complete child in any reasonable person's book. What's next, vandalising DVSA offices because they charge VED?
Agreed, fking idiotsRather than spunking your tiny loads over other w
kers like this, why not get involved in local politics and try and change something.Pathetic!
dundarach said:
Pickle_Party_247 said:
Morons committing vandalism and wasting public money. Anyone kicking off about ULEZ charges is a complete child in any reasonable person's book. What's next, vandalising DVSA offices because they charge VED?
Agreed, fking idiotsRather than spunking your tiny loads over other w
kers like this, why not get involved in local politics and try and change something.Pathetic!
dundarach said:
Pickle_Party_247 said:
Morons committing vandalism and wasting public money. Anyone kicking off about ULEZ charges is a complete child in any reasonable person's book. What's next, vandalising DVSA offices because they charge VED?
Agreed, fking idiotsRather than spunking your tiny loads over other w
kers like this, why not get involved in local politics and try and change something.Pathetic!
You can change things in politics but if you look at something like Brexit as a gauge for how much effort it takes you can see why politicians not listening and doing virtually the opposite of what the electorate wants and doubling-down on negative policies that nobody asked for results in vigilantism.
To overturn the actions of politicians of the 1960s, 70s, 80s, 90s and the 2000s took 25 years by parties like UKIP, millions of pounds in donations, cost thousands of people their careers, millions of people were branded racists, permeant fractures in countless numbers of family homes all across the country such was the division it caused. Then the court cases, resignation of prime ministers and probably the loss of life perhaps of Jo Cox and other many lesser known individuals all because they wanted to do what they wanted to do and didn't care what people thought.
It's no way to run a country.
ULEZ is on a lesser scale, far smaller but it has the very same flavour. It's no surprise Kahn is an arch remainer.
ingenieur said:
dundarach said:
Pickle_Party_247 said:
Morons committing vandalism and wasting public money. Anyone kicking off about ULEZ charges is a complete child in any reasonable person's book. What's next, vandalising DVSA offices because they charge VED?
Agreed, fking idiotsRather than spunking your tiny loads over other w
kers like this, why not get involved in local politics and try and change something.Pathetic!
You can change things in politics but if you look at something like Brexit as a gauge for how much effort it takes you can see why politicians not listening and doing virtually the opposite of what the electorate wants and doubling-down on negative policies that nobody asked for results in vigilantism.
To overturn the actions of politicians of the 1960s, 70s, 80s, 90s and the 2000s took 25 years by parties like UKIP, millions of pounds in donations, cost thousands of people their careers, millions of people were branded racists, permeant fractures in countless numbers of family homes all across the country such was the division it caused. Then the court cases, resignation of prime ministers and probably the loss of life perhaps of Jo Cox and other many lesser known individuals all because they wanted to do what they wanted to do and didn't care what people thought.
It's no way to run a country.
ULEZ is on a lesser scale, far smaller but it has the very same flavour. It's no surprise Kahn is an arch remainer.
smn159 said:
ingenieur said:
dundarach said:
Pickle_Party_247 said:
Morons committing vandalism and wasting public money. Anyone kicking off about ULEZ charges is a complete child in any reasonable person's book. What's next, vandalising DVSA offices because they charge VED?
Agreed, fking idiotsRather than spunking your tiny loads over other w
kers like this, why not get involved in local politics and try and change something.Pathetic!
You can change things in politics but if you look at something like Brexit as a gauge for how much effort it takes you can see why politicians not listening and doing virtually the opposite of what the electorate wants and doubling-down on negative policies that nobody asked for results in vigilantism.
To overturn the actions of politicians of the 1960s, 70s, 80s, 90s and the 2000s took 25 years by parties like UKIP, millions of pounds in donations, cost thousands of people their careers, millions of people were branded racists, permeant fractures in countless numbers of family homes all across the country such was the division it caused. Then the court cases, resignation of prime ministers and probably the loss of life perhaps of Jo Cox and other many lesser known individuals all because they wanted to do what they wanted to do and didn't care what people thought.
It's no way to run a country.
ULEZ is on a lesser scale, far smaller but it has the very same flavour. It's no surprise Kahn is an arch remainer.
'Delusional' would be if none of that happened and if people were not challenging ULEZ... It's a comparison between Brexit and ULEZ. One already happened that's a fact, the other is playing out currently. I fail to see any 'delusion'
dundarach said:
Agreed, fking idiots
Rather than spunking your tiny loads over other wkers like this, why not get involved in local politics and try and change something.
Pathetic!
Pension aside that's an utter waste of your time and your efforts.king idiotsRather than spunking your tiny loads over other w
kers like this, why not get involved in local politics and try and change something.Pathetic!
All decisions of any significance are made behind and above our democratic process, pushed down and through over decades by a carousel of grinning mannequins who put their faces to policies that never were in question then slope off to take their rewards once they are out of the spotlight.
Pathetic? Yes it is.
ingenieur said:
smn159 said:
ingenieur said:
dundarach said:
Pickle_Party_247 said:
Morons committing vandalism and wasting public money. Anyone kicking off about ULEZ charges is a complete child in any reasonable person's book. What's next, vandalising DVSA offices because they charge VED?
Agreed, fking idiotsRather than spunking your tiny loads over other w
kers like this, why not get involved in local politics and try and change something.Pathetic!
You can change things in politics but if you look at something like Brexit as a gauge for how much effort it takes you can see why politicians not listening and doing virtually the opposite of what the electorate wants and doubling-down on negative policies that nobody asked for results in vigilantism.
To overturn the actions of politicians of the 1960s, 70s, 80s, 90s and the 2000s took 25 years by parties like UKIP, millions of pounds in donations, cost thousands of people their careers, millions of people were branded racists, permeant fractures in countless numbers of family homes all across the country such was the division it caused. Then the court cases, resignation of prime ministers and probably the loss of life perhaps of Jo Cox and other many lesser known individuals all because they wanted to do what they wanted to do and didn't care what people thought.
It's no way to run a country.
ULEZ is on a lesser scale, far smaller but it has the very same flavour. It's no surprise Kahn is an arch remainer.
'Delusional' would be if none of that happened and if people were not challenging ULEZ... It's a comparison between Brexit and ULEZ. One already happened that's a fact, the other is playing out currently. I fail to see any 'delusion'
ingenieur said:
smn159 said:
ingenieur said:
dundarach said:
Pickle_Party_247 said:
Morons committing vandalism and wasting public money. Anyone kicking off about ULEZ charges is a complete child in any reasonable person's book. What's next, vandalising DVSA offices because they charge VED?
Agreed, fking idiotsRather than spunking your tiny loads over other w
kers like this, why not get involved in local politics and try and change something.Pathetic!
You can change things in politics but if you look at something like Brexit as a gauge for how much effort it takes you can see why politicians not listening and doing virtually the opposite of what the electorate wants and doubling-down on negative policies that nobody asked for results in vigilantism.
To overturn the actions of politicians of the 1960s, 70s, 80s, 90s and the 2000s took 25 years by parties like UKIP, millions of pounds in donations, cost thousands of people their careers, millions of people were branded racists, permeant fractures in countless numbers of family homes all across the country such was the division it caused. Then the court cases, resignation of prime ministers and probably the loss of life perhaps of Jo Cox and other many lesser known individuals all because they wanted to do what they wanted to do and didn't care what people thought.
It's no way to run a country.
ULEZ is on a lesser scale, far smaller but it has the very same flavour. It's no surprise Kahn is an arch remainer.
'Delusional' would be if none of that happened and if people were not challenging ULEZ... It's a comparison between Brexit and ULEZ. One already happened that's a fact, the other is playing out currently. I fail to see any 'delusion'
That is the delusional part. Makes you sound as if everything you dont like (i.e ULEZ) is a remainer plot to get revenge for brexit.
London voted overwhelmingly to remain in the EU.
Not all policies and laws are right and that's not limited to trivial issues.
It's hard to dispute the difficulty in getting authorities to backtrack and the situation is worsened when the action appears to fly in the face of public opinion. The authorities exacerbate things when they 'consult' but proceed even though the message is 'don't do it'.
I sympathise more than I condemn. I don't agree with the ULEZ policy and I would like to see it reined back or stopped. That's not an isolated view. Khan won't do either so it's inevitable some people won't restrict themselves to moaning and will take direct action.
It's hard to dispute the difficulty in getting authorities to backtrack and the situation is worsened when the action appears to fly in the face of public opinion. The authorities exacerbate things when they 'consult' but proceed even though the message is 'don't do it'.
I sympathise more than I condemn. I don't agree with the ULEZ policy and I would like to see it reined back or stopped. That's not an isolated view. Khan won't do either so it's inevitable some people won't restrict themselves to moaning and will take direct action.
sugerbear said:
ingenieur said:
smn159 said:
ingenieur said:
dundarach said:
Pickle_Party_247 said:
Morons committing vandalism and wasting public money. Anyone kicking off about ULEZ charges is a complete child in any reasonable person's book. What's next, vandalising DVSA offices because they charge VED?
Agreed, fking idiotsRather than spunking your tiny loads over other w
kers like this, why not get involved in local politics and try and change something.Pathetic!
You can change things in politics but if you look at something like Brexit as a gauge for how much effort it takes you can see why politicians not listening and doing virtually the opposite of what the electorate wants and doubling-down on negative policies that nobody asked for results in vigilantism.
To overturn the actions of politicians of the 1960s, 70s, 80s, 90s and the 2000s took 25 years by parties like UKIP, millions of pounds in donations, cost thousands of people their careers, millions of people were branded racists, permeant fractures in countless numbers of family homes all across the country such was the division it caused. Then the court cases, resignation of prime ministers and probably the loss of life perhaps of Jo Cox and other many lesser known individuals all because they wanted to do what they wanted to do and didn't care what people thought.
It's no way to run a country.
ULEZ is on a lesser scale, far smaller but it has the very same flavour. It's no surprise Kahn is an arch remainer.
'Delusional' would be if none of that happened and if people were not challenging ULEZ... It's a comparison between Brexit and ULEZ. One already happened that's a fact, the other is playing out currently. I fail to see any 'delusion'
That is the delusional part. Makes you sound as if everything you dont like (i.e ULEZ) is a remainer plot to get revenge for brexit.
London voted overwhelmingly to remain in the EU.
Dingu said:
Presumably we also support JSO and their right to protest also now then? There has been a lot of hand wringing over them on here but selectively backing protest/disobedience doesn’t really work.
Why would you deduce support for one protest means support for another? Of course people selectively back protests/disobedience. Why wouldn't they?
Unreal said:
'.
I sympathise more than I condemn. I don't agree with the ULEZ policy and I would like to see it reined back or stopped. That's not an isolated view. Khan won't do either so it's inevitable some people won't restrict themselves to moaning and will take direct action.
It may not be an isolated view but it is a minority view. Various polling has Londoners broadly supporting ULEZ and its expansion. Khan is also polling ahead of his nearest Tory rival (who at the time of polling wasn’t chosen yet) so we’ll see at the next election how much actual impact it has.I sympathise more than I condemn. I don't agree with the ULEZ policy and I would like to see it reined back or stopped. That's not an isolated view. Khan won't do either so it's inevitable some people won't restrict themselves to moaning and will take direct action.
Unreal said:
Dingu said:
Presumably we also support JSO and their right to protest also now then? There has been a lot of hand wringing over them on here but selectively backing protest/disobedience doesn’t really work.
Why would you deduce support for one protest means support for another? Of course people selectively back protests/disobedience. Why wouldn't they?
valiant said:
Unreal said:
'.
I sympathise more than I condemn. I don't agree with the ULEZ policy and I would like to see it reined back or stopped. That's not an isolated view. Khan won't do either so it's inevitable some people won't restrict themselves to moaning and will take direct action.
It may not be an isolated view but it is a minority view. Various polling has Londoners broadly supporting ULEZ and its expansion. Khan is also polling ahead of his nearest Tory rival (who at the time of polling wasn’t chosen yet) so we’ll see at the next election how much actual impact it has.I sympathise more than I condemn. I don't agree with the ULEZ policy and I would like to see it reined back or stopped. That's not an isolated view. Khan won't do either so it's inevitable some people won't restrict themselves to moaning and will take direct action.
Remain voters were in the minority. Hasn't shut them up though has it?
Dingu said:
Presumably we also support JSO and their right to protest also now then? There has been a lot of hand wringing over them on here but selectively backing protest/disobedience doesn’t really work.
If anything the 'Bladerunners' are going further than JSO have ever done by actively sabotaging and stealing cameras. Imagine the outrage if JSO did the same to oil pipelines.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff