RE: Honda S2000 | PH Private Area
Discussion
Never had a S2000 but have been close a couple of times. Did own an MX5 ND2 for 2.5 years. I've said it plenty to the point I've bored myself, but it was just about fine. It was massively less than the sum of its parts and the steering was unforgivably awful and being ePAS there's not much you can do about it. Suspension mods and tyres improved the handling but not the steering. I've even seen people go as far to say that wrapping the steering wheel in alcantara somehow improved it, never heard so much s
te.
It probably sounds like hyperbole, but there's no reason for it to be as bad as it is. There's no EU regulation that says you mustn't have any idea what the front wheels are doing. It boggles the mind that they finished testing it and went "yes, that's perfect, get it sold", especially considering the gearbox is excellent and the engine is good. Ruined the car for me.
On the other hand, it sounds like an S2000 would try and kill you if there was light drizzle forecast next Wednesday.
te. It probably sounds like hyperbole, but there's no reason for it to be as bad as it is. There's no EU regulation that says you mustn't have any idea what the front wheels are doing. It boggles the mind that they finished testing it and went "yes, that's perfect, get it sold", especially considering the gearbox is excellent and the engine is good. Ruined the car for me.
On the other hand, it sounds like an S2000 would try and kill you if there was light drizzle forecast next Wednesday.
trails said:
shuthan_b said:
trails said:
shuthan_b said:
MX-5s are cheap so they can be used on track days. The Mazdas are budget roadsters and they do the job well but to me, not in the same league as an S2000.
The S2000 is still a budget roadster really, the drive train is special though...hence my comment Edited by shuthan_b on Wednesday 15th May 23:27
Edited by shuthan_b on Thursday 16th May 01:12
Edited by shuthan_b on Thursday 16th May 01:13
Oiyou said:
shuthan_b said:
Jonstar said:
shuthan_b said:
Don’t ever compare an S2000 to any MX-5, standard or modified/charged. An S2000 is a totally different animal in each way, the values talk for themselves. Also not up to you to wonder why people are paying the money they command, it’s up to them and they see something unique and one off. An MX-5 has been around for many generations but there is only one S2000, all that has to be said.
Not really. I've had both, the bbr mx5 is the better drivers car. Values have no relevance to the driving experience. That's not to say the S2000 is a bad car though. I take it for granted the engine is a masterpiece.
Asking as I missed the boat on these being affordable but still have a hankering. In the meantime have had MK1 & MK4 mx5s, TF160, Z4 coupe and an old TVR. All of which have had their pros and cons but only the MK4 mx5 wasn't a complete money pit as 20 year old suspension components reach end of life.
Edited by shuthan_b on Thursday 16th May 10:13
Oiyou said:
Genuine question - is an S2000 18K special? Or at this age is it an endless round of rusted bolts, worn bushes ect?
I take it for granted the engine is a masterpiece.
Asking as I missed the boat on these being affordable but still have a hankering. In the meantime have had MK1 & MK4 mx5s, TF160, Z4 coupe and an old TVR. All of which have had their pros and cons but only the MK4 mx5 wasn't a complete money pit as 20 year old suspension components reach end of life.
Mine was <£6k special as a fun daily driver but it was far rustier than any c 10 year old car had a right to be. As an example, changing the drop links required a mallet and a blowtorch…. Also, air intake temperatures rose rapidly in traffic, robbing the car of power until back up to speed. I take it for granted the engine is a masterpiece.
Asking as I missed the boat on these being affordable but still have a hankering. In the meantime have had MK1 & MK4 mx5s, TF160, Z4 coupe and an old TVR. All of which have had their pros and cons but only the MK4 mx5 wasn't a complete money pit as 20 year old suspension components reach end of life.
Certainly, the engine and gearbox were the highlights of the car but it was attractive enough too and the 5 second hood deployment was great as well.
If I had a large shed to keep all the cars I want, I’d have one imported from somewhere dry and sunny. However, with limited space in the real world, that was the car I sold after only a couple of years, whilst I’ve kept my B7 RS4 for 7 years, my Z4MC for 15 years and my Westfield for 20 years.
Edited by chirurgus on Thursday 16th May 10:46
bigmowley said:
Now to be fair it had a few miles up and I never even looked at the tyres and the tracking could have been all over the place. However badly set up it might have been it drove fine up to the point it let go and then all hell broke loose. I like a bit of oversteer and I firmly believe that throttle induced oversteer is the highest manifestation of virility, but dear god not that lairy.
Honda gave it a lot of geometry adjustment - camber, caster and toe. And it is very susceptible to both geometry and to tyre pressures.I owned an '03 for 3 years, had it set up by Chris at Centre Gravity, and I never lost it. Got into a tank-slapper in the wet when I went a little wide and ran over the white line at the edge of the road, but that was my fault not the car's.
...so can I politely suggest either the car needed setting up / tyre pressures checking, or you were being a little...ah, TOO enthusiastic for a light rwd roadster with no TC?
trails said:
Very happy with the sentence ta, I've had mine for just shy of 9 years and it's been cheap as chips to run. Even with adding shiny stuff like Ohlins...contemporary MX5s are certainly cheaper, (not sure anyone is arguing that) but the S2000 is hardly an Aston or Ferrari in terms of either initial cost or maintenance.
I've no idea why people are so sensitive about the suggestion that an MX-5 is a legitimate alternative, I think it's a cult thing. That said, the 150hp - 240hp (well, 210hp, apparently!) was a meaningful divide in the '00s, so it's easy to understand how the NB was perceived as a less serious proposition. But that doesn't mean one is better or the other unworthy of comparison.Edited by AmyRichardson on Thursday 16th May 12:33
trails said:
bigmowley said:
Bit lairy full stop 
I am a bit of a Honda fan boy and I’ve had a few over the years. About 10 years ago my local BMW garage took an S2000 in part ex. Being matey with the sales director he offered it to me before it got punted to the trade as it was a bit leggy and the wrong marque. I popped down to have a look at it all excited. I grabbed the keys and took it for a quick spin on some nice derestricred roads near my house. Great engine check, great gearbox check, decent fast 60mph sweeping left hander. Shiiiiiittttttt the bloody thing stepped out at the back in the biggest possible way, incredibly quickly and without the slightest warning. I managed to catch it by the skin of my teeth but it was more by luck than judgement, it promptly snapped back the other way, I was full lock to full lock and managed to catch it again, whereupon it snapped back the other way again. Me and the bloody car danced down the road seesawing from one lock to the other, the last couple of seesaws were at walking pace for Christ sake. I was pissing myself laughing when it finally stopped, partly from relief and partly because I just couldn’t believe anything could be that bad.
I took it straight back very carefully and politely declined it. Never again.
Now to be fair it had a few miles up and I never even looked at the tyres and the tracking could have been all over the place. However badly set up it might have been it drove fine up to the point it let go and then all hell broke loose. I like a bit of oversteer and I firmly believe that throttle induced oversteer is the highest manifestation of virility, but dear god not that lairy.
Very sensitive when everything is not as intended; my OE nearside rear shock developed a bit of a leak, which I only discovered after it tried to kill me...changing lanes in the dry, the rear end would try and step out if it crossed a raised white line I am a bit of a Honda fan boy and I’ve had a few over the years. About 10 years ago my local BMW garage took an S2000 in part ex. Being matey with the sales director he offered it to me before it got punted to the trade as it was a bit leggy and the wrong marque. I popped down to have a look at it all excited. I grabbed the keys and took it for a quick spin on some nice derestricred roads near my house. Great engine check, great gearbox check, decent fast 60mph sweeping left hander. Shiiiiiittttttt the bloody thing stepped out at the back in the biggest possible way, incredibly quickly and without the slightest warning. I managed to catch it by the skin of my teeth but it was more by luck than judgement, it promptly snapped back the other way, I was full lock to full lock and managed to catch it again, whereupon it snapped back the other way again. Me and the bloody car danced down the road seesawing from one lock to the other, the last couple of seesaws were at walking pace for Christ sake. I was pissing myself laughing when it finally stopped, partly from relief and partly because I just couldn’t believe anything could be that bad.
I took it straight back very carefully and politely declined it. Never again.
Now to be fair it had a few miles up and I never even looked at the tyres and the tracking could have been all over the place. However badly set up it might have been it drove fine up to the point it let go and then all hell broke loose. I like a bit of oversteer and I firmly believe that throttle induced oversteer is the highest manifestation of virility, but dear god not that lairy.
Ohlins are a really good upgrade.
The best thing to do is let go of the wheel and let the caster angle sort it out. Yes - it takes bravery the first time!
Mine no longer does it - upgraded to the 17" spec wheels & tyres and with chassis braces, one can better detect the car's approaching limits. Actually, on ADR08s it's become a bit boring...
Oiyou said:
Genuine question - is an S2000 18K special? Or at this age is it an endless round of rusted bolts, worn bushes ect?
I take it for granted the engine is a masterpiece.
Asking as I missed the boat on these being affordable but still have a hankering. In the meantime have had MK1 & MK4 mx5s, TF160, Z4 coupe and an old TVR. All of which have had their pros and cons but only the MK4 mx5 wasn't a complete money pit as 20 year old suspension components reach end of life.
You can ask that question of most performance cars now. I LOVED both the DC2s I owned - should never have sold #2 - but the money being asked for them now is faintly crazy...but nowhere near as crazy as stuff like E30 M3's and Sierra Cosworths.I take it for granted the engine is a masterpiece.
Asking as I missed the boat on these being affordable but still have a hankering. In the meantime have had MK1 & MK4 mx5s, TF160, Z4 coupe and an old TVR. All of which have had their pros and cons but only the MK4 mx5 wasn't a complete money pit as 20 year old suspension components reach end of life.
I've not driven one for about a decade, but being Jap I CAN imagine rust being a consideration. Beyond that they were built very very well, and they're definitely a step above an MX5 or a Z4 in terms of sense of occasion. A 987 Boxster S is bizarrely probably better value now, and equally depreciation-proof, but one of them will probably have higher running costs, what with Porsche parts prices, so toss a coin there.
For £18k I'd probably be also considering the 987S as above, a (manual, coupe) E46 if a soft top wasn't essential, and a late-run ND MX5 if I wanted a safer/newer alternative. Maybe a Lotus or two also if I was feeling brave...a 111R should still be in that sort of budget (doubt the s/charged ones are). Doubt anything else rwd would drive/handle as well without spending a lot more money.
havoc said:
Oiyou said:
Genuine question - is an S2000 18K special? Or at this age is it an endless round of rusted bolts, worn bushes ect?
I take it for granted the engine is a masterpiece.
Asking as I missed the boat on these being affordable but still have a hankering. In the meantime have had MK1 & MK4 mx5s, TF160, Z4 coupe and an old TVR. All of which have had their pros and cons but only the MK4 mx5 wasn't a complete money pit as 20 year old suspension components reach end of life.
You can ask that question of most performance cars now. I LOVED both the DC2s I owned - should never have sold #2 - but the money being asked for them now is faintly crazy...but nowhere near as crazy as stuff like E30 M3's and Sierra Cosworths.I take it for granted the engine is a masterpiece.
Asking as I missed the boat on these being affordable but still have a hankering. In the meantime have had MK1 & MK4 mx5s, TF160, Z4 coupe and an old TVR. All of which have had their pros and cons but only the MK4 mx5 wasn't a complete money pit as 20 year old suspension components reach end of life.
I've not driven one for about a decade, but being Jap I CAN imagine rust being a consideration. Beyond that they were built very very well, and they're definitely a step above an MX5 or a Z4 in terms of sense of occasion. A 987 Boxster S is bizarrely probably better value now, and equally depreciation-proof, but one of them will probably have higher running costs, what with Porsche parts prices, so toss a coin there.
For £18k I'd probably be also considering the 987S as above, a (manual, coupe) E46 if a soft top wasn't essential, and a late-run ND MX5 if I wanted a safer/newer alternative. Maybe a Lotus or two also if I was feeling brave...a 111R should still be in that sort of budget (doubt the s/charged ones are). Doubt anything else rwd would drive/handle as well without spending a lot more money.
My EF8 CRX, EG2 Del Sol, EK9 CTR, EG6 SiR-S etc - all worth stupid money now compared to what they were if you look at what examples come in from Japan via the usual suspects (DCY, Torque GT etc) and they're still selling...!
All mine suffered from rust (only little bits that I got sorted properly); but the owners after me didn't do what was needed during their ownership etc and they've all gone to the little dust pile in the sky!
£18k feels a lot though for an S2K; I can't see it's price going up either TBH
plenty said:
Glad to see the panting cultish fandom surrounding the S2K still lives on.
People on car forum in typing 'I like this car' shocker.I borrowed one for an afternoon when they first came in in Bristol Honda while my housemate was working as a salesperson there. I took it round the Bristol 'Ring and changed from 6th to 2nd by accident approaching a roundabout with a policecar just sitting in a siding, as I went past with the back wheels chirping and my arse doing similar.
My housemate never lent me a car after that.
Super looking cars.
TimmyMallett said:
People on car forum in typing 'I like this car' shocker.
Personally I like my forums to feature informed and intelligent debate. Whereas posts containing nothing but irrational anger triggered by one's precious icon being spoken of in the same breath as plebeian alternatives get the derision they deserve.
AmyRichardson said:
trails said:
Very happy with the sentence ta, I've had mine for just shy of 9 years and it's been cheap as chips to run. Even with adding shiny stuff like Ohlins...contemporary MX5s are certainly cheaper, (not sure anyone is arguing that) but the S2000 is hardly an Aston or Ferrari in terms of either initial cost or maintenance.
I've no idea why people are so sensitive about the suggestion that an MX-5 is a legitimate alternative, I think it's a cult thing. That said, the 150hp - 240hp (well, 210hp, apparently!) was a meaningful divide in the '00s, so it's easy to understand how the NB was perceived as a less serious proposition. But that doesn't mean one is better or the other unworthy of comparison.In period, it's "direct" competitor was the Porsche Boxster (which only had c200bhp at the time, or the S with 260 but costs a lot more).
So, to compare MX5 to S2000 would also be to compare the MX5 to the Boxster.
Other "natural" competitors were the BMW Z3/4, Nissan 350Z and arguably the Audi TT (although that's not RWD). Why people compare S2000 to MX5 but don't ALSO compare MX5 to the others above, I don't know....
I loved the 2 S2000s I had, sure it had flaws but all cars have those.
I recently had a 2010 Cayman S which when compared to the S2000 has many advantages (safer/faster/better handling, more power, nicer interior materials etc.), I think the S2000 was more fun/event to drive (partly due to being convertible I suppose as well).
For me, if I wanted to get from A-B quickly, the Cayman would win hands down. If I wanted to go for a nice summers drive just for fun, then think I'd prefer the S2000.
Edited by Dracoro on Thursday 16th May 13:35
Dracoro said:
In period, it's "direct" competitor was the Porsche Boxster (which only had c200bhp at the time, or the S with 260 but costs a lot more).
So, to compare MX5 to S2000 would also be to compare the MX5 to the Boxster.
Other "natural" competitors were the BMW Z3/4, Nissan 350Z and arguably the Audi TT (although that's not RWD). Why people compare S2000 to MX5 but don't ALSO compare MX5 to the others above, I don't know....
I think Top Gear did a segment where they did that on Isle of Man. May had a bright yellow 2.7 Boxster, Richard had a Z4 3.0 and Jeremy had a S2000. I cant remember what the conclusion was though, but I seem to remember the Boxster being quickest on their track.So, to compare MX5 to S2000 would also be to compare the MX5 to the Boxster.
Other "natural" competitors were the BMW Z3/4, Nissan 350Z and arguably the Audi TT (although that's not RWD). Why people compare S2000 to MX5 but don't ALSO compare MX5 to the others above, I don't know....
Edited by Dracoro on Thursday 16th May 13:35
I do like the S2000 and did consider one when buying current toy. But I keep getting told by my peers that I'd kill myself in the first field with trees I see. Ended up with a Boxster S which is great fun.
Jayho said:
I do like the S2000 and did consider one when buying current toy. But I keep getting told by my peers that I'd kill myself in the first field with trees I see. Ended up with a Boxster S which is great fun.
I keep hearing that.. I've had mine for over 5 years, tracked it etc. They're not lethal when setup correctly.in my opinion, what makes them fun is the fact that it likes to bite and is playful on the limit. If you know how a RWD car with a powerband like that and no traction control etc behaves then you'll be good.
grudas said:
Jayho said:
I do like the S2000 and did consider one when buying current toy. But I keep getting told by my peers that I'd kill myself in the first field with trees I see. Ended up with a Boxster S which is great fun.
I keep hearing that.. I've had mine for over 5 years, tracked it etc. They're not lethal when setup correctly.in my opinion, what makes them fun is the fact that it likes to bite and is playful on the limit. If you know how a RWD car with a powerband like that and no traction control etc behaves then you'll be good.
AmyRichardson said:
trails said:
Very happy with the sentence ta, I've had mine for just shy of 9 years and it's been cheap as chips to run. Even with adding shiny stuff like Ohlins...contemporary MX5s are certainly cheaper, (not sure anyone is arguing that) but the S2000 is hardly an Aston or Ferrari in terms of either initial cost or maintenance.
I've no idea why people are so sensitive about the suggestion that an MX-5 is a legitimate alternative, I think it's a cult thing. That said, the 150hp - 240hp (well, 210hp, apparently!) was a meaningful divide in the '00s, so it's easy to understand how the NB was perceived as a less serious proposition. But that doesn't mean one is better or the other unworthy of comparison.Edited by AmyRichardson on Thursday 16th May 12:33
Edited by shuthan_b on Thursday 16th May 16:25
Jayho said:
I don't deny that they can be great and safe if you know the car well and know how it behaves. Unfortunately I don't trust myself to always respect those limits and to have the necessary skills to correct it. I've known a few S2000 owners who have binned theirs, and I'd say they're all more competent drivers than myself.
I get that - much the same here....but the limits of the car in the dry are so high that I'd suggest you'd need to be really pushing it to lose a properly set up car. And in the wet you treat it with respect (as our ancestors always had to) and ensure the tyres are up to spec.
I think we've all been spoiled by ever-more-advanced stability programmes.
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