EVs... no one wants them!
Discussion
Tigger2050 said:
Export values are about the value of the products you provide to other nations. China is strong on physical goods the UK (and the USA) are strong on other products.
The UK exports more than five times the amount China does per capita. Way more, per capita, than the USA.
Still, people love to denigrate the UK for some reason.
It's a tiny island in an appalling position off the coast of a peninsula to the Asian continent. And yet, its inhabitants luxuriate in an inflated standard of living that wouldn't be possible if it weren't for the things they despise, fear and love to denigrate. The UK exports more than five times the amount China does per capita. Way more, per capita, than the USA.
Still, people love to denigrate the UK for some reason.
And f
k me, do idiots just love to keep banging on about how their life is so bad because other people in their country won't dig coal out of the ground or chop their fingers off in factories making rubbish. Is there a nation better set to profit and prosper from the 'climate' situation? It doesn't even matter whether it's real or not, no belief or understanding is needed other than the realisation that the U.K. dropped its filthy industry 40 years ago, managed to survive the disastrous unemployment and social turmoil that stems from such shifts and transition to an economy that is not only barely exposed to the carbon issue but positioned to benefit from it by the exporting of the higher end goods and expertise.
Why do people denigrate the U.K.? Because they're losers stuck not in their past but the past of other people long dead, that's how daft they are. 'We don't make anything anymore!' Is the battlecry of the provincial loser.
We make 4 billion ready meals a year for all the fat and daft people to guzzle. All make in factories by people who would otherwise be down a hole, with an owl. There are your traditional, no skill, minimum wage factory jobs. Making sandwiches, curries etc for people far too busy to make their own food.
And all those potato people get their money from one of the most successful services export hubs on the planet. The U.K. has managed to place itself in a role where despite the US winning most of the exchanges off London since the war, London can still take a clip from an enormous percentage of global money flows. The U.K. supplies legal and accounting expertise across the planet to businesses and we supply protection to those businesses and when they need capital we have the expertise to arrange that.
The people who denigrate the services industry of the U.K. and how it has managed to compete against larger nations and cheaper nations and how it has been instrumental in keeping the standard of living abnormally high for the U.K. are fools. Fools who always have the same bitter battle cry that we don't make anything any more despite the fact that they probably live, work and commute within a few miles of a post 1980s, low carbon, high margin, manufacturing facility.
What they really mean is that we don't exploit British people enough any more. We don't take the male population of entire towns and tell them they can't do anything with their life other than go underground and get lung disease and die young. That just as a mere function of where they happened to be born they would spend their shortened, s
te, third world, Victorian life underground. More importantly, they don't want the women having any freedom either. They must go back to being home keepers and raising diseased children who have no future. Well they can f
k off with their miserable, idiotic, third world rhetoric. Go back to the backward provincial hole they were spaffed out in and spend their days at the bar with all the other backward losers. 
Today the U.K. is an island where it no longer matters where someone was spaffed out, it's no longer the death sentence it was for hundreds of years. Someone can be born in the arse end of nowhere and not have to go and work in a hole but have a wide range of opportunities that their forefathers could never dream of having. They're even allowed in front office roles due to the destruction of the class system and we've made great strides so that skin colour, sexuality and other irrelevant things matter so much less.
And that is all thanks to those who created the UK's high end manufacturing industries and our enormous service industry. As well as all the lazy fat f
ks gorging on ready meals and spending every spare hour shopping. As for the Fiesta guff? It probably only lagged the European sales slump by 5 years due to so many British idiots thinking they were buying British. Even in this thread, on a car forum no less, more than one person has said this would force them into buying a German car, seemingly oblivious to having been driving German cars for years.
The Fiesta died because it lost against its competition. It went from hero to zero. Ford isn't some Socialist experiment but a capitalist based corporate entity. It lost. Who cares. No one but the shareholders should care. As for the U.K.? It was just another foreign import driving GBP out of the country so who cares. We want a more efficient import market where we get better goods in exchange for less GBp being sent and should be agnostic as to where these vehicles come from within reason. And we sure as hell don't need to be subsidising German manufacturers.
As for EVs, let the overseas manufacturers duke it out at their expense. We aren't builders of generic transport vehicles but importers so very obviously we want to pay less and get more and we categorically don't want to be subsidising overseas manufacturers to help them charge more.
And the great thing about the U.K. is that there is nothing to stop anyone from buying a 2023 Ford Fiesta and enjoying it for 20 years. It's just that people don't want to actually own and enjoy a Ford Fiesta they just want to whinge about it.
DonkeyApple said:
It's a tiny island in an appalling position off the coast of a peninsula to the Asian continent. And yet, its inhabitants luxuriate in an inflated standard of living that wouldn't be possible if it weren't for the things they despise, fear and love to denigrate.
And fk me, do idiots just love to keep banging on about how their life is so bad because other people in their country won't dig coal out of the ground or chop their fingers off in factories making rubbish.
Is there a nation better set to profit and prosper from the 'climate' situation? It doesn't even matter whether it's real or not, no belief or understanding is needed other than the realisation that the U.K. dropped its filthy industry 40 years ago, managed to survive the disastrous unemployment and social turmoil that stems from such shifts and transition to an economy that is not only barely exposed to the carbon issue but positioned to benefit from it by the exporting of the higher end goods and expertise.
Why do people denigrate the U.K.? Because they're losers stuck not in their past but the past of other people long dead, that's how daft they are. 'We don't make anything anymore!' Is the battlecry of the provincial loser.
We make 4 billion ready meals a year for all the fat and daft people to guzzle. All make in factories by people who would otherwise be down a hole, with an owl. There are your traditional, no skill, minimum wage factory jobs. Making sandwiches, curries etc for people far too busy to make their own food.
And all those potato people get their money from one of the most successful services export hubs on the planet. The U.K. has managed to place itself in a role where despite the US winning most of the exchanges off London since the war, London can still take a clip from an enormous percentage of global money flows. The U.K. supplies legal and accounting expertise across the planet to businesses and we supply protection to those businesses and when they need capital we have the expertise to arrange that.
The people who denigrate the services industry of the U.K. and how it has managed to compete against larger nations and cheaper nations and how it has been instrumental in keeping the standard of living abnormally high for the U.K. are fools. Fools who always have the same bitter battle cry that we don't make anything any more despite the fact that they probably live, work and commute within a few miles of a post 1980s, low carbon, high margin, manufacturing facility.
What they really mean is that we don't exploit British people enough any more. We don't take the male population of entire towns and tell them they can't do anything with their life other than go underground and get lung disease and die young. That just as a mere function of where they happened to be born they would spend their shortened, ste, third world, Victorian life underground. More importantly, they don't want the women having any freedom either. They must go back to being home keepers and raising diseased children who have no future.
Well they can fk off with their miserable, idiotic, third world rhetoric. Go back to the backward provincial hole they were spaffed out in and spend their days at the bar with all the other backward losers.
Today the U.K. is an island where it no longer matters where someone was spaffed out, it's no longer the death sentence it was for hundreds of years. Someone can be born in the arse end of nowhere and not have to go and work in a hole but have a wide range of opportunities that their forefathers could never dream of having. They're even allowed in front office roles due to the destruction of the class system and we've made great strides so that skin colour, sexuality and other irrelevant things matter so much less.
And that is all thanks to those who created the UK's high end manufacturing industries and our enormous service industry. As well as all the lazy fat fks gorging on ready meals and spending every spare hour shopping.
As for the Fiesta guff? It probably only lagged the European sales slump by 5 years due to so many British idiots thinking they were buying British. Even in this thread, on a car forum no less, more than one person has said this would force them into buying a German car, seemingly oblivious to having been driving German cars for years.
The Fiesta died because it lost against its competition. It went from hero to zero. Ford isn't some Socialist experiment but a capitalist based corporate entity. It lost. Who cares. No one but the shareholders should care. As for the U.K.? It was just another foreign import driving GBP out of the country so who cares. We want a more efficient import market where we get better goods in exchange for less GBp being sent and should be agnostic as to where these vehicles come from within reason. And we sure as hell don't need to be subsidising German manufacturers.
As for EVs, let the overseas manufacturers duke it out at their expense. We aren't builders of generic transport vehicles but importers so very obviously we want to pay less and get more and we categorically don't want to be subsidising overseas manufacturers to help them charge more.
And the great thing about the U.K. is that there is nothing to stop anyone from buying a 2023 Ford Fiesta and enjoying it for 20 years. It's just that people don't want to actually own and enjoy a Ford Fiesta they just want to whinge about it.
It's hilarious that you have written an entire post whinging about other people whinging. Only in Britain can this kind of nonsense happen. And f
k me, do idiots just love to keep banging on about how their life is so bad because other people in their country won't dig coal out of the ground or chop their fingers off in factories making rubbish. Is there a nation better set to profit and prosper from the 'climate' situation? It doesn't even matter whether it's real or not, no belief or understanding is needed other than the realisation that the U.K. dropped its filthy industry 40 years ago, managed to survive the disastrous unemployment and social turmoil that stems from such shifts and transition to an economy that is not only barely exposed to the carbon issue but positioned to benefit from it by the exporting of the higher end goods and expertise.
Why do people denigrate the U.K.? Because they're losers stuck not in their past but the past of other people long dead, that's how daft they are. 'We don't make anything anymore!' Is the battlecry of the provincial loser.
We make 4 billion ready meals a year for all the fat and daft people to guzzle. All make in factories by people who would otherwise be down a hole, with an owl. There are your traditional, no skill, minimum wage factory jobs. Making sandwiches, curries etc for people far too busy to make their own food.
And all those potato people get their money from one of the most successful services export hubs on the planet. The U.K. has managed to place itself in a role where despite the US winning most of the exchanges off London since the war, London can still take a clip from an enormous percentage of global money flows. The U.K. supplies legal and accounting expertise across the planet to businesses and we supply protection to those businesses and when they need capital we have the expertise to arrange that.
The people who denigrate the services industry of the U.K. and how it has managed to compete against larger nations and cheaper nations and how it has been instrumental in keeping the standard of living abnormally high for the U.K. are fools. Fools who always have the same bitter battle cry that we don't make anything any more despite the fact that they probably live, work and commute within a few miles of a post 1980s, low carbon, high margin, manufacturing facility.
What they really mean is that we don't exploit British people enough any more. We don't take the male population of entire towns and tell them they can't do anything with their life other than go underground and get lung disease and die young. That just as a mere function of where they happened to be born they would spend their shortened, s
te, third world, Victorian life underground. More importantly, they don't want the women having any freedom either. They must go back to being home keepers and raising diseased children who have no future. Well they can f
k off with their miserable, idiotic, third world rhetoric. Go back to the backward provincial hole they were spaffed out in and spend their days at the bar with all the other backward losers. Today the U.K. is an island where it no longer matters where someone was spaffed out, it's no longer the death sentence it was for hundreds of years. Someone can be born in the arse end of nowhere and not have to go and work in a hole but have a wide range of opportunities that their forefathers could never dream of having. They're even allowed in front office roles due to the destruction of the class system and we've made great strides so that skin colour, sexuality and other irrelevant things matter so much less.
And that is all thanks to those who created the UK's high end manufacturing industries and our enormous service industry. As well as all the lazy fat f
ks gorging on ready meals and spending every spare hour shopping. As for the Fiesta guff? It probably only lagged the European sales slump by 5 years due to so many British idiots thinking they were buying British. Even in this thread, on a car forum no less, more than one person has said this would force them into buying a German car, seemingly oblivious to having been driving German cars for years.
The Fiesta died because it lost against its competition. It went from hero to zero. Ford isn't some Socialist experiment but a capitalist based corporate entity. It lost. Who cares. No one but the shareholders should care. As for the U.K.? It was just another foreign import driving GBP out of the country so who cares. We want a more efficient import market where we get better goods in exchange for less GBp being sent and should be agnostic as to where these vehicles come from within reason. And we sure as hell don't need to be subsidising German manufacturers.
As for EVs, let the overseas manufacturers duke it out at their expense. We aren't builders of generic transport vehicles but importers so very obviously we want to pay less and get more and we categorically don't want to be subsidising overseas manufacturers to help them charge more.
And the great thing about the U.K. is that there is nothing to stop anyone from buying a 2023 Ford Fiesta and enjoying it for 20 years. It's just that people don't want to actually own and enjoy a Ford Fiesta they just want to whinge about it.
740EVTORQUES said:
I migrated from a series of petrol V8s and 911 to an EV. The EV is massively better, you really should try one, you’ll be pleasantly surprised. There’s no way I’d go backwards to a V8 now, it’s just inferior.
Nope. Sorry. That's mental. It's the inferiority of a stinky V8 that makes it superior.
The true benefit of the EV is that it makes it even easier to have a stinky, inferior V8 in the garage.
Let the EV do all the hard work, the mundane graft and chore travel and keep a stinky, inefficient, noisy, smelly, expensive petrol car for the fun stuff.
I just watched a YT video about a bike engines 2CV. Clearly inferior to any EV by any logical metric bar the only metric that is actually of any importance, stupid, indulgent, fun.
Dave200 said:
You're not coming across as very smart here, or you're just deliberately ignoring points you don't agree. I could lease an M340i or a model 3 long range for the same price today. As we've established, they do identical jobs in almost identical ways. Why is the Tesla a stupid price while the BMW isn't?
Sorry to break it to you but a model 3 isn't in the same category as a M340i. It is a cheap car akin to the Ford Mondeo. The fact it costs the same as a BMW M340i on a lease is just showing that. You are paying for the EV side of things. The base of the model 3 is Mondeo/Passat level not BMW. Sit in a Model 3 then a BMW M340iDonkeyApple said:
740EVTORQUES said:
I migrated from a series of petrol V8s and 911 to an EV. The EV is massively better, you really should try one, you’ll be pleasantly surprised. There’s no way I’d go backwards to a V8 now, it’s just inferior.
Nope. Sorry. That's mental. It's the inferiority of a stinky V8 that makes it superior.
The true benefit of the EV is that it makes it even easier to have a stinky, inferior V8 in the garage.
Let the EV do all the hard work, the mundane graft and chore travel and keep a stinky, inefficient, noisy, smelly, expensive petrol car for the fun stuff.
I just watched a YT video about a bike engines 2CV. Clearly inferior to any EV by any logical metric bar the only metric that is actually of any importance, stupid, indulgent, fun.
te but it doesn’t stop me wanting one. On the other hand, when I get an EV, I’ll have given up on life. KingGary said:
DonkeyApple said:
740EVTORQUES said:
I migrated from a series of petrol V8s and 911 to an EV. The EV is massively better, you really should try one, you’ll be pleasantly surprised. There’s no way I’d go backwards to a V8 now, it’s just inferior.
Nope. Sorry. That's mental. It's the inferiority of a stinky V8 that makes it superior.
The true benefit of the EV is that it makes it even easier to have a stinky, inferior V8 in the garage.
Let the EV do all the hard work, the mundane graft and chore travel and keep a stinky, inefficient, noisy, smelly, expensive petrol car for the fun stuff.
I just watched a YT video about a bike engines 2CV. Clearly inferior to any EV by any logical metric bar the only metric that is actually of any importance, stupid, indulgent, fun.
te but it doesn’t stop me wanting one. On the other hand, when I get an EV, I’ll have given up on life. Zj2002 said:
KingGary said:
DonkeyApple said:
740EVTORQUES said:
I migrated from a series of petrol V8s and 911 to an EV. The EV is massively better, you really should try one, you’ll be pleasantly surprised. There’s no way I’d go backwards to a V8 now, it’s just inferior.
Nope. Sorry. That's mental. It's the inferiority of a stinky V8 that makes it superior.
The true benefit of the EV is that it makes it even easier to have a stinky, inferior V8 in the garage.
Let the EV do all the hard work, the mundane graft and chore travel and keep a stinky, inefficient, noisy, smelly, expensive petrol car for the fun stuff.
I just watched a YT video about a bike engines 2CV. Clearly inferior to any EV by any logical metric bar the only metric that is actually of any importance, stupid, indulgent, fun.
te but it doesn’t stop me wanting one. On the other hand, when I get an EV, I’ll have given up on life. Weekdays I drive an EV, weekends I chose between a V6, flat 6 or a race tuned 4 cylinder with sequential gearbox. I've had V8's and just don't think that they are very good. Buy hey, each to their own!
740EVTORQUES said:
Zj2002 said:
KingGary said:
DonkeyApple said:
740EVTORQUES said:
I migrated from a series of petrol V8s and 911 to an EV. The EV is massively better, you really should try one, you’ll be pleasantly surprised. There’s no way I’d go backwards to a V8 now, it’s just inferior.
Nope. Sorry. That's mental. It's the inferiority of a stinky V8 that makes it superior.
The true benefit of the EV is that it makes it even easier to have a stinky, inferior V8 in the garage.
Let the EV do all the hard work, the mundane graft and chore travel and keep a stinky, inefficient, noisy, smelly, expensive petrol car for the fun stuff.
I just watched a YT video about a bike engines 2CV. Clearly inferior to any EV by any logical metric bar the only metric that is actually of any importance, stupid, indulgent, fun.
te but it doesn’t stop me wanting one. On the other hand, when I get an EV, I’ll have given up on life. Weekdays I drive an EV, weekends I chose between a V6, flat 6 or a race tuned 4 cylinder with sequential gearbox. I've had V8's and just don't think that they are very good. Buy hey, each to their own!
BricktopST205 said:
Sorry to break it to you but a model 3 isn't in the same category as a M340i. It is a cheap car akin to the Ford Mondeo. The fact it costs the same as a BMW M340i on a lease is just showing that. You are paying for the EV side of things. The base of the model 3 is Mondeo/Passat level not BMW. Sit in a Model 3 then a BMW M340i
Sitting in an M340i is pretty much the same as sitting in any 3 series, there really isn't that much of a difference, I recently sat in a model 3 which was next to a 6 month old 330e Msport at a friends used car dealership, they are different inside but the Tesla was a decent place to sit it wasn't worse than the 3 IMO just different plus points of each really depending on what you like. I'd arrived in my 7 series so I'm used to a decent interior.
Wills2 said:
BricktopST205 said:
Sorry to break it to you but a model 3 isn't in the same category as a M340i. It is a cheap car akin to the Ford Mondeo. The fact it costs the same as a BMW M340i on a lease is just showing that. You are paying for the EV side of things. The base of the model 3 is Mondeo/Passat level not BMW. Sit in a Model 3 then a BMW M340i
Sitting in an M340i is pretty much the same as sitting in any 3 series, there really isn't that much of a difference, I recently sat in a model 3 which was next to a 6 month old 330e Msport at a friends used car dealership, they are different inside but the Tesla was a decent place to sit it wasn't worse than the 3 IMO just different plus points of each really depending on what you like. I'd arrived in my 7 series so I'm used to a decent interior.
740EVTORQUES said:
No I just don't see what the appeal is in noisy, stinky slow V8's
Weekdays I drive an EV, weekends I chose between a V6, flat 6 or a race tuned 4 cylinder with sequential gearbox. I've had V8's and just don't think that they are very good. Buy hey, each to their own!
Why don't you drive the EV on the weekends and just get rid of the ICE cars?Weekdays I drive an EV, weekends I chose between a V6, flat 6 or a race tuned 4 cylinder with sequential gearbox. I've had V8's and just don't think that they are very good. Buy hey, each to their own!
KingGary said:
DonkeyApple said:
740EVTORQUES said:
I migrated from a series of petrol V8s and 911 to an EV. The EV is massively better, you really should try one, you’ll be pleasantly surprised. There’s no way I’d go backwards to a V8 now, it’s just inferior.
Nope. Sorry. That's mental. It's the inferiority of a stinky V8 that makes it superior.
The true benefit of the EV is that it makes it even easier to have a stinky, inferior V8 in the garage.
Let the EV do all the hard work, the mundane graft and chore travel and keep a stinky, inefficient, noisy, smelly, expensive petrol car for the fun stuff.
I just watched a YT video about a bike engines 2CV. Clearly inferior to any EV by any logical metric bar the only metric that is actually of any importance, stupid, indulgent, fun.
te but it doesn’t stop me wanting one. On the other hand, when I get an EV, I’ll have given up on life. It's not a binary scenario when one has to have one or the other or having an EV means the end of one's life. It's just another object that can be intelligently used to allow for more fun.
s
t box EVs will slowly replace stbox ICE because they're going to work better as stboxes. stboxes are just utility objects for getting from A to B as conveniently as possible. For some that convenience advantage has already arrived, for others it'll take twenty years before it does but what is clear is that the more convenient one's stbox is the more silly one's fun car can be. For the open minded, the EV is a real positive advantage for those who genuinely love their ICE fun cars. They aren't something to be feared or loathed or used to further a political doctrine, they are a path to be exploited to enable more fun with more ludicrous ICE cars.
Devoutly believing in one form of engine over another is silly and a waste. It's about looking at the absolutely vast array of vehicle options we have available to us and deciding which blend of what will give us the most freedom and pleasure.
Maracus said:
Wills2 said:
BricktopST205 said:
Sorry to break it to you but a model 3 isn't in the same category as a M340i. It is a cheap car akin to the Ford Mondeo. The fact it costs the same as a BMW M340i on a lease is just showing that. You are paying for the EV side of things. The base of the model 3 is Mondeo/Passat level not BMW. Sit in a Model 3 then a BMW M340i
Sitting in an M340i is pretty much the same as sitting in any 3 series, there really isn't that much of a difference, I recently sat in a model 3 which was next to a 6 month old 330e Msport at a friends used car dealership, they are different inside but the Tesla was a decent place to sit it wasn't worse than the 3 IMO just different plus points of each really depending on what you like. I'd arrived in my 7 series so I'm used to a decent interior.
BricktopST205 said:
740EVTORQUES said:
No I just don't see what the appeal is in noisy, stinky slow V8's
Weekdays I drive an EV, weekends I chose between a V6, flat 6 or a race tuned 4 cylinder with sequential gearbox. I've had V8's and just don't think that they are very good. Buy hey, each to their own!
Why don't you drive the EV on the weekends and just get rid of the ICE cars?Weekdays I drive an EV, weekends I chose between a V6, flat 6 or a race tuned 4 cylinder with sequential gearbox. I've had V8's and just don't think that they are very good. Buy hey, each to their own!
If I could only have one car though it would be the EV, it would be dotty to choose a car that was the best for only 5% of my use. (But the saving in petrol by daily driving an EV more than pays for the insurance, servicing and road tax on the ICE cars so they're sort of free now, a win-win)
Edited by 740EVTORQUES on Saturday 18th May 11:32
740EVTORQUES said:
BricktopST205 said:
740EVTORQUES said:
No I just don't see what the appeal is in noisy, stinky slow V8's
Weekdays I drive an EV, weekends I chose between a V6, flat 6 or a race tuned 4 cylinder with sequential gearbox. I've had V8's and just don't think that they are very good. Buy hey, each to their own!
Why don't you drive the EV on the weekends and just get rid of the ICE cars?Weekdays I drive an EV, weekends I chose between a V6, flat 6 or a race tuned 4 cylinder with sequential gearbox. I've had V8's and just don't think that they are very good. Buy hey, each to their own!
If I could only have one car though it would be the EV, it would be dotty to choose a car that was the best for only 5% of my use. (But the saving in petrol by daily driving an EV more than pays for the insurance, servicing and road tax on the ICE cars so they're sort of free now, a win-win)
Edited by 740EVTORQUES on Saturday 18th May 11:32
740EVTORQUES said:
No I just don't see what the appeal is in noisy, stinky slow V8's
Weekdays I drive an EV, weekends I chose between a V6, flat 6 or a race tuned 4 cylinder with sequential gearbox. I've had V8's and just don't think that they are very good. Buy hey, each to their own!
'V8' in this context is really just a generic term for an ICE that is orientated more towards inefficient stupidity than favouring efficiency at all odds. So your choice of weekend silly car fits this perfectly. Weekdays I drive an EV, weekends I chose between a V6, flat 6 or a race tuned 4 cylinder with sequential gearbox. I've had V8's and just don't think that they are very good. Buy hey, each to their own!
It's very clearly not that you favour EVs over ICE but that you have worked out where they can be superior and where they aren't and have chosen your cars accordingly, which to me is the real benefit of EV.
Many of the disputes around EVs on PH stem from those who are able to have more than one car and the budget to exploit that benefit refusing to acknowledge what they clearly do know and understand which is that there are people who can only have one car but are passionate about ICE.
You say 'each to their own' but then don't exactly accept that when it isn't you.
. An old Mondeo may be a stbox but it may also be the perfect car for its user and they may really like it. Driving something more costly doesn't magically make someone a better person person or superior. That's core council logic of the shiny shiny brigade and best left for man bangle chaps. Being able to rent and EV and use it more conveniently than an ICE isn't some kind of win that can be lorded over others. More often than not it's just a function of being much older.
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