1991 Peugot 309 2.1td conversion
Discussion
Howdy all,
Been a while since I posted so I thought I'd start a build thread for my 309.
I wasn't even intending to do another car after the Civic, but started getting the urge for another car, this time more usable.
So I ended up buying a 1991 309 GLD from ebay unseen.
It arrived all good and only needed an indicator relay and passenger door locking mechanism for the MOT, which it passed with no advisories!
Then the modding started.
1.9GTI wheels with 45 rubber and 50mm lowering springs on the front and the rear torsion bar I dropped to match.
The breaks were terrible, so I fitted GTI6 items to stop myself from dying.
I got the car to use, so it's been all over the country but was painfully slow, being 1.9 na with 60odd bhp from new. Reduced to racing lorries and tractors.
Then my friend messaged me one day saying he was scrapping his Xantia, that has a 2.1 turbo lump....
So it began....
We pulled the engine, rad/intercooler and fans out of the Xantia.
It came with the Lucas EPIC, ecu controlled diseasel pump which was no good to me. I'll run the ever tunable and mechanical Bosch pump.
Once home, I began to strip all the stuff off the engine I don't need.
Hydraulic pump, AC compressor, clutch and flywheel.
Then decided my days of working on engines on a tyre are done so knocked up an engine table.
I then pulled the XUD9
Then came working out what to run and how.
I swapped the thermostat housing from the XUD9 onto the 2.1 to save having to chop and splice the sensor plugs and also gutted the 2.1 thermostat.
It sits at the bottom of the engine at the rear and is an absolute nightmare to change with the engine in.
Another reason not to run that one!
Next I swapped the oil pressure switch again, to save chopping the loom
Then came the fun of fitting the timing belt.
I locked the diseasel pump and cam pulleys out and also the flywheel, fitted the belt, then every time, after a couple of rotations, the fly pin wouldn't line up.
Was about 3 degrees out.
I must have tried 10 times.
Then after half a day, i realised the issue.
When I was tensioning the belt, before tightening the tensioner, I'd press a little on it before tightening it.
That meant as soon as I removed the pins, the bottom end rotated a tad.
And then once done, I realised I'd not fitted the engine mount.
When I removed the Lucas pump, its mounting bracket went with it as it had the bits to mount the un needed bits too, so I fitted the Bosch mount but this meant there was nothing to mount the alternator with.
So I used the one from the XUD9, but this meant there was no tensioner.
So I bodged something together using the old tensioner.
Now I know what's needed, I'm taking it to a mates workshop to make something proper.
Along with the pump, I needed to swap to Bosch injectors so while doing them, I did the glowplugs too, seeing as they were only a few thousand miles old.
Then I realised the alternator pulleys were miles out of line.
So I fitted the pulley from the old engine, which bought them much closer, but still out.
So a couple of washers spaced out the alternator pulley enough for me to be happy with it.
Gear box wise, I'm going to run the XUD9 one, along with clutch and fly.
It'll mean it'll accelerate like hell, but ultimately it's not the ideal box for the conversion.
I'll run a 306td one eventually but that can wait for the mo.
I also cleaned the inlet from all the EGR grime.
I never realised how much crud they deposited!
Things left to do:
Make EGR blank plate.
Make brackets for 2.1 rad/intercooler
Make proper alternator tensioner.
Wind out actuator
Adjust fuel on pump.
Then it can go in!
More updates to follow
Been a while since I posted so I thought I'd start a build thread for my 309.
I wasn't even intending to do another car after the Civic, but started getting the urge for another car, this time more usable.
So I ended up buying a 1991 309 GLD from ebay unseen.
It arrived all good and only needed an indicator relay and passenger door locking mechanism for the MOT, which it passed with no advisories!
Then the modding started.
1.9GTI wheels with 45 rubber and 50mm lowering springs on the front and the rear torsion bar I dropped to match.
The breaks were terrible, so I fitted GTI6 items to stop myself from dying.
I got the car to use, so it's been all over the country but was painfully slow, being 1.9 na with 60odd bhp from new. Reduced to racing lorries and tractors.
Then my friend messaged me one day saying he was scrapping his Xantia, that has a 2.1 turbo lump....
So it began....
We pulled the engine, rad/intercooler and fans out of the Xantia.
It came with the Lucas EPIC, ecu controlled diseasel pump which was no good to me. I'll run the ever tunable and mechanical Bosch pump.
Once home, I began to strip all the stuff off the engine I don't need.
Hydraulic pump, AC compressor, clutch and flywheel.
Then decided my days of working on engines on a tyre are done so knocked up an engine table.
I then pulled the XUD9
Then came working out what to run and how.
I swapped the thermostat housing from the XUD9 onto the 2.1 to save having to chop and splice the sensor plugs and also gutted the 2.1 thermostat.
It sits at the bottom of the engine at the rear and is an absolute nightmare to change with the engine in.
Another reason not to run that one!
Next I swapped the oil pressure switch again, to save chopping the loom
Then came the fun of fitting the timing belt.
I locked the diseasel pump and cam pulleys out and also the flywheel, fitted the belt, then every time, after a couple of rotations, the fly pin wouldn't line up.
Was about 3 degrees out.
I must have tried 10 times.
Then after half a day, i realised the issue.
When I was tensioning the belt, before tightening the tensioner, I'd press a little on it before tightening it.
That meant as soon as I removed the pins, the bottom end rotated a tad.
And then once done, I realised I'd not fitted the engine mount.
When I removed the Lucas pump, its mounting bracket went with it as it had the bits to mount the un needed bits too, so I fitted the Bosch mount but this meant there was nothing to mount the alternator with.
So I used the one from the XUD9, but this meant there was no tensioner.
So I bodged something together using the old tensioner.
Now I know what's needed, I'm taking it to a mates workshop to make something proper.
Along with the pump, I needed to swap to Bosch injectors so while doing them, I did the glowplugs too, seeing as they were only a few thousand miles old.
Then I realised the alternator pulleys were miles out of line.
So I fitted the pulley from the old engine, which bought them much closer, but still out.
So a couple of washers spaced out the alternator pulley enough for me to be happy with it.
Gear box wise, I'm going to run the XUD9 one, along with clutch and fly.
It'll mean it'll accelerate like hell, but ultimately it's not the ideal box for the conversion.
I'll run a 306td one eventually but that can wait for the mo.
I also cleaned the inlet from all the EGR grime.
I never realised how much crud they deposited!
Things left to do:
Make EGR blank plate.
Make brackets for 2.1 rad/intercooler
Make proper alternator tensioner.
Wind out actuator
Adjust fuel on pump.
Then it can go in!
More updates to follow
Edited by Lawbags on Sunday 24th December 16:49
Edited by Lawbags on Sunday 24th December 16:52
Edited by Lawbags on Sunday 24th December 16:53
Edited by Lawbags on Sunday 24th December 16:55
Edited by Lawbags on Sunday 24th December 17:04
Stock, the XUD9 is just over 60.
The XUD11 (the 2.1td) is just over 110.
But I'll add a bit more boost and fuel so it'll be around 130 and a shed ton of torque.
The engines can take 160 stock, but as I use it so much, I'd rather stay safe.
Even in the Xantia, which weighed about half my 309 again, it went like stink, so it's going to be fun for sure!
The XUD11 (the 2.1td) is just over 110.
But I'll add a bit more boost and fuel so it'll be around 130 and a shed ton of torque.
The engines can take 160 stock, but as I use it so much, I'd rather stay safe.
Even in the Xantia, which weighed about half my 309 again, it went like stink, so it's going to be fun for sure!
Cheers dude!
And yep, ive definitely seen it all!
Was soaked through after pulling the lump from the xantia.
And who knows! I honestly had no idea how bad the EGR valve left the intake system.
How that can be classed as cleaner I don't know!
And yep, ive definitely seen it all!
Was soaked through after pulling the lump from the xantia.
And who knows! I honestly had no idea how bad the EGR valve left the intake system.
How that can be classed as cleaner I don't know!
Edited by Lawbags on Sunday 24th December 17:28
Mr Happy said:
It looks like a fun project but a lot of work!
Why not put the XUD9TE in from a 306 DTurbo? Wind up the boost/fuel and get a relatively smoke free 120-130hp, unless they're now becoming a bit harder to source these days.
The price of that lump and the bosch pump would be twice what I paid for this. I've already made nearly all my money back from selling the bits I don't need too!Why not put the XUD9TE in from a 306 DTurbo? Wind up the boost/fuel and get a relatively smoke free 120-130hp, unless they're now becoming a bit harder to source these days.
It's also not even done 100k miles yet and I know the history of it too!
And the old saying goes, there's no replacement for displacement!
Alex Z said:
That’s a good looking car that’s aged really well. Should be a load more fun when you’ve got it all back together.
I was really surprised how good mine is.No rust in the usual spots at all!
It had a little bit in one wheel well and a couple of bits in the boot but absolutely nothing on the important areas.
Its so so clean!
Once it's all done, I'll get some good pictures
So it was all going so well today 😄
Started off with the last couple of things before dropping the engine in.
As standard, these engines run 15psi of boost.
On the inlet fanimould, is these rubber connectors that link to another part of the inlet.
And they are simply a push fit.
So i added jubilee clips to stop any boost leaks.
Then fitted the EGR blanking plate that my mate helped me make the other day
Then dropped the engine onto the skate and got it round, ready to fit the gear box
I swapped the rad hoses and realised how bad the original one was!
The 2.1 lump is 12v, the 1.8 8v, so there's a space issue with the head donking the servo, so to get round this, you need to move the left hand engine mount forward a tad.
A few washers behind one, and cutting off 15mm off the other does just the job
[url
|https://thumbsnap.com/DyoHJWgS[/url]
Then I fitted the half shaft and removed and cleaned the seal
[url
|https://thumbsnap.com/b1AeX3ek[/url]
Then I hit a problem.
I'd planned to use all the boost pipework that was on the 2.1 along with the intercooler.
So I tried to fit the pipe that goes under the engine to the IC and it wouldn't fit.
Turns out the 2.1 halfshaft sits higher, allowing the clearance requited. Ffs
Now to work out how to make this work.
I've only got the engine crane on loan for another couple of weeks too :/
All was going so well!
Started off with the last couple of things before dropping the engine in.
As standard, these engines run 15psi of boost.
On the inlet fanimould, is these rubber connectors that link to another part of the inlet.
And they are simply a push fit.
So i added jubilee clips to stop any boost leaks.
Then fitted the EGR blanking plate that my mate helped me make the other day
Then dropped the engine onto the skate and got it round, ready to fit the gear box
I swapped the rad hoses and realised how bad the original one was!
The 2.1 lump is 12v, the 1.8 8v, so there's a space issue with the head donking the servo, so to get round this, you need to move the left hand engine mount forward a tad.
A few washers behind one, and cutting off 15mm off the other does just the job
[url
|https://thumbsnap.com/DyoHJWgS[/url]Then I fitted the half shaft and removed and cleaned the seal
[url
|https://thumbsnap.com/b1AeX3ek[/url]Then I hit a problem.
I'd planned to use all the boost pipework that was on the 2.1 along with the intercooler.
So I tried to fit the pipe that goes under the engine to the IC and it wouldn't fit.
Turns out the 2.1 halfshaft sits higher, allowing the clearance requited. Ffs
Now to work out how to make this work.
I've only got the engine crane on loan for another couple of weeks too :/
All was going so well!
bearman68 said:
The photo location in the first post looks like Blaenau Ffestiniog in North Wales. Big piles of slate piled everywhere.
I'm running a 1.9 XUD in a Citroen ZX at the moment. No turbo. Painfully slow might be overegging it a bit, but it's certainly not fast.
It is indeed! Was such a good trip there.I'm running a 1.9 XUD in a Citroen ZX at the moment. No turbo. Painfully slow might be overegging it a bit, but it's certainly not fast.
Even with the car loaded up for a weeks camping and the slowest engine known to man, the Welsh roads were awesome!
You must have a goodun! Mine needed first gear up certain hills!
Master Of Puppets said:
ishanolee said:
Master Of Puppets said:
Great thread, will keep a watch on this. Reminds me of 20 odd years ago when 309 GTi's could be bought for a few hundred quid
we had one with a blown engine and decided to convert it to a DTurbo from a BX, it was an easy swap and was a great daily runner, all
the looks of the GTi with superb economy and reliability, word got round and we ended up doing half a dozen of them, all were 3 door,
one was a Goodwood and another was the rare Miami blue version with the blue chequered seats and carpet.
Seems like a waste when you look at the prices of them now but back then they were readily available and cheap.
I bought a red 3 door K reg GTi which had been converted to 1.9TD from Stockport around 2006. Must of been one of yours.we had one with a blown engine and decided to convert it to a DTurbo from a BX, it was an easy swap and was a great daily runner, all
the looks of the GTi with superb economy and reliability, word got round and we ended up doing half a dozen of them, all were 3 door,
one was a Goodwood and another was the rare Miami blue version with the blue chequered seats and carpet.
Seems like a waste when you look at the prices of them now but back then they were readily available and cheap.
the 205 STDT but with a better interior than the horrid beige dash they used to come with.
OP... What is the EG?. JDM tailgate so assuming SiR?
Well, was. Ha.
It's B16 turbo now. EK9 head and cams, fully forged. 400whp.
105.4 said:
Good news…. I’ve got one you can borrow.
Bad news….. I’m up in North Derbyshire.
The option’s there if you need it
Ha! Thanks for the offer but you're miiiiiiiiles away!Bad news….. I’m up in North Derbyshire.
The option’s there if you need it
I'm going to try and heat the plastic pipework up this weekend and shape it, so hopefully that works.
If not, I'll get some silicone couplers and route the pipework over the gearbox.
There is hope 😄
So more progress today!
After the issue with the boost pipe and half shaft, I ordered a 135 degree silicone bend.
But unfortunately not only did it not fit without a horrific bend, it also blocked the speedo drive on the gear box...
So I racked my brain about how to make it work.
And with a heat gun, and lots of gentle persuasion, squished the original boost pipe enough to give it about 8mm of clearance on the shaft.
Winner!
Then, before dropping the engine in, fitted a short shift.
I'm not sure if when set to the shortest shift, the syncros will have time to slow down enough, but I'll soon find out if it crunches between gears. Ha!
Then finally got to drop it in!
And then swore.
Lots.
And figured why this conversion isn't common.
Although it 'in', its not sitting on the engine mounts yet.
I can't figure out why I can't get the engine back far enough.
I've had to move and bend one of the metal water lines out the way and also realised that the original mount didn't fit.
After a couple of hours faffing around, I recovered the old cam belt covers from the dustbin (thank f
k I forgot to put my bins out twice) and realised that they have a notch cut out.
So hopefully, tomorrow I can cut the same notch out and get it all in properly!
But, I'm now seeing why no one does this conversion and am certain it won't go well.
Definitely regretting starting this now!
After the issue with the boost pipe and half shaft, I ordered a 135 degree silicone bend.
But unfortunately not only did it not fit without a horrific bend, it also blocked the speedo drive on the gear box...
So I racked my brain about how to make it work.
And with a heat gun, and lots of gentle persuasion, squished the original boost pipe enough to give it about 8mm of clearance on the shaft.
Winner!
Then, before dropping the engine in, fitted a short shift.
I'm not sure if when set to the shortest shift, the syncros will have time to slow down enough, but I'll soon find out if it crunches between gears. Ha!
Then finally got to drop it in!
And then swore.
Lots.
And figured why this conversion isn't common.
Although it 'in', its not sitting on the engine mounts yet.
I can't figure out why I can't get the engine back far enough.
I've had to move and bend one of the metal water lines out the way and also realised that the original mount didn't fit.
After a couple of hours faffing around, I recovered the old cam belt covers from the dustbin (thank f
k I forgot to put my bins out twice) and realised that they have a notch cut out.So hopefully, tomorrow I can cut the same notch out and get it all in properly!
But, I'm now seeing why no one does this conversion and am certain it won't go well.
Definitely regretting starting this now!
Edited by Lawbags on Saturday 6th January 17:56
Mr Happy said:
Bugger!
I don't think you'd be able to invert the existing turbo manifold either.
Did they do an NA variant of the XUD11? if so the NA manifold might be easier to hack up for a turbo as it'll already be dropping into the right area.
Nope. Unfortunately there's nothing suited except relocating the turbo ontop of the gear box.I don't think you'd be able to invert the existing turbo manifold either.
Did they do an NA variant of the XUD11? if so the NA manifold might be easier to hack up for a turbo as it'll already be dropping into the right area.
Slight update!
I phoned around some places to get prices on a turbo relocation pipe and downpipe/exhaust and was such high prices (around a grand) I wrote the project off.
I decided to scrap this idea and go with the XUD9 turbo.
A common conversion from the 306.
So I tried to find a lowish milage engine and couldn't find one.
Nor an XUD7te, the 1.8turbo that came in the 309/205.
This was supposed to be a cheap project, so an e engine rebuild was definitely out.
So back to the drawing board.
I thought I'd phone the place that ive used for years for exhausts back where I used to live for a price on the exhaust etc.
Half what I was quoted in Wiltshire!
So decided the only option was to stick with it.
I still needed to get the lump in properly, so had to remove the turbo.
But as per everything with this, it wasnt that simple.
Exhaust fanimould had to come off and instead of the obvious 3 bolts on the turbo flange, Citroen used 2 normal bolts and one Allen bolt, that obviously rounded off.
So out came the mangle grinder.
Once off, I refitted the mani and hoped to hell the engine would fit.
Which it did.
Although I spaces the drivers side mount forward, space is still verrrrrrry tight, so I've ordered some polyurethane to make my own mount to push it further forward
You can see how close it is here
And how much I've already had to move the mount forward
So that's hopefully the hard work done now.
Need some nicer weather to hurry up. Getting fed up of working in the rain and dark!!
I phoned around some places to get prices on a turbo relocation pipe and downpipe/exhaust and was such high prices (around a grand) I wrote the project off.
I decided to scrap this idea and go with the XUD9 turbo.
A common conversion from the 306.
So I tried to find a lowish milage engine and couldn't find one.
Nor an XUD7te, the 1.8turbo that came in the 309/205.
This was supposed to be a cheap project, so an e engine rebuild was definitely out.
So back to the drawing board.
I thought I'd phone the place that ive used for years for exhausts back where I used to live for a price on the exhaust etc.
Half what I was quoted in Wiltshire!
So decided the only option was to stick with it.
I still needed to get the lump in properly, so had to remove the turbo.
But as per everything with this, it wasnt that simple.
Exhaust fanimould had to come off and instead of the obvious 3 bolts on the turbo flange, Citroen used 2 normal bolts and one Allen bolt, that obviously rounded off.
So out came the mangle grinder.
Once off, I refitted the mani and hoped to hell the engine would fit.
Which it did.
Although I spaces the drivers side mount forward, space is still verrrrrrry tight, so I've ordered some polyurethane to make my own mount to push it further forward
You can see how close it is here
And how much I've already had to move the mount forward
So that's hopefully the hard work done now.
Need some nicer weather to hurry up. Getting fed up of working in the rain and dark!!
Edited by Lawbags on Thursday 18th January 06:23
Mr Whippy said:
Was the fitting issue that the turbo turbine outlet was so high up that the exhaust wouldn’t fit up through the space available?
Assuming you’re now getting the down pipe made up to reach up to the higher located turbo?
I remember my brother getting 132bhp on his 1.9Td on Bosch pump and k03 turbo but it was quite laggy and revving up at 4500rpm to make the power, all a bit silly, but lots of fun. But economy was probably terrible too.
A 2.1Td done right will probably be a lot more giggle inducing in a diesel kinda way, especially in a 309, so kudos!
I’m excited to see it finished and a report on what it’s like!
Yeah, the turbo on all other XUDs sits underneath the fanimound.Assuming you’re now getting the down pipe made up to reach up to the higher located turbo?
I remember my brother getting 132bhp on his 1.9Td on Bosch pump and k03 turbo but it was quite laggy and revving up at 4500rpm to make the power, all a bit silly, but lots of fun. But economy was probably terrible too.
A 2.1Td done right will probably be a lot more giggle inducing in a diesel kinda way, especially in a 309, so kudos!
I’m excited to see it finished and a report on what it’s like!
On the 11, it sits straight out the back or on the top.
You can smash the hell outta the firewall and tunel to make it fit, but you need a good 2" slot bashed into it.
And yeah, these engines are bomb proof. With this turbo and pump it can run 160 easy.
xstian said:
The turbo cold side can be loosened slightly which will allow the cold side outlet to be rotated, which may help with the pipework clearance.
There used to be a few Pug 205 converted with the 2.1 TD. Have you had a look on 205gtidrivers.com that is still a fairly active forum and there are some old threads from people who have done the conversion. It looks like most cut and weld the bulkhead to get clarence for it to fit or relocate the turbo if they're looking at fitting a larger one.
I have a 205 with a 1.9 TD conversion, but I'm now looking to go the other way and convert it to a petrol even though it will probably end up being slightly slower. I may have the 1.9TD engine available if you are interested, but personally I would stick to the 2.1 now you have it.
This is a link to a dutch guy with how he did his conversion, hope it helps.
https://www.205gti.com/story_rudy_tdiNL.htm
Good luck.
The pipework clearance isn't an issue anymore.There used to be a few Pug 205 converted with the 2.1 TD. Have you had a look on 205gtidrivers.com that is still a fairly active forum and there are some old threads from people who have done the conversion. It looks like most cut and weld the bulkhead to get clarence for it to fit or relocate the turbo if they're looking at fitting a larger one.
I have a 205 with a 1.9 TD conversion, but I'm now looking to go the other way and convert it to a petrol even though it will probably end up being slightly slower. I may have the 1.9TD engine available if you are interested, but personally I would stick to the 2.1 now you have it.
This is a link to a dutch guy with how he did his conversion, hope it helps.
https://www.205gti.com/story_rudy_tdiNL.htm
Good luck.
Now that the turbos being relocated!
And yeah, I hammered the forums and bookface pages to find the solution. Luckily someone whs done the conversion in a 306 had heaps of pics and couldn't help enough!
And thanks, but I've decided to stick with it now!
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